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The War On Alternative Viewpoints

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posted on Nov, 21 2010 @ 04:13 AM
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I have noticed over the last few months a large increase in the number of members entering threads and promoting/defending the Official Story of important events and siding with Authoritative bodies such as the Government or Private Corporations. Firstly, let me state I am not referring to people who share an opinion that is in the minority. I am talking about members that go into threads and label as "crazy" people who believe there might be a Conspiracy of sorts going on. Members that make vague analogies and use reasoning that lacks substance. Giving the benefit of the doubt to those in positions of Power while doubting the stories of average citizens. Attempting to discredit people that reveal information that challenges the Official Story of events. Attempting to derail threads so that the original intent behind the thread is forgotten.

This is happening in a variety of threads. It is beginning to harm the reputation of ATS as a forum that encourages transparency, open-mindedness and critical thought. Those of us that believe "things are not as they appear on the surface" are being labelled Delusional and Paranoid. People are ridiculed - made to feel like deviants and outcasts that have lost their sense of rationality. Why is this being done? Why is there such a concerted effort to dismiss these alternate views? There is only one real reason that comes to mind: certain individuals don't want the Truth to be explored in it's raw, unfiltered form. If some of these alternative views turn out to to be accurate, then many questions about the nature of the societal structures and political systems built around us must be considered.

Only those who hide behind lies to control others need to fear public access to raw, uncensored Truth. Only those who enjoy being controlled by Government and Corporations support the censorship of information that leads to Truth. Open your mind and use your brain. Think critically about issues and events from a range of perspectives and don't try to discredit others because the information they share jeopardises your firmly-held beliefs on certain issues. Silence the voice within you that seeks to criticise others because their views threaten your belief system. At least consider these ideas before you dismiss them as wrong and dangerous. There is a War on Alternative Viewpoints taking place and we must be as diligent as ever to deny Lies, Disinformation and Misdirection from corrupting the valuable information that will lead us to Truth and Freedom.


edit on 21/11/2010 by Dark Ghost because: grammar




posted on Nov, 21 2010 @ 04:47 AM
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Thanks for your post - S & F.

I agree with the intent of your posting. I have seen quite a few posters around here who seem to debunk on every post--typically in a "hit & run", with a quick blub saying that this is a definte hoax with some link, and will refuse to discuss the evidence presented after that, even if the "hoax" proof is weak (the case more often than not). The constant debunker crowd ALWAYS go by the book, official government, every time. I can't really comprehend why you would be on ATS given that you never question anything, but hey, who knows.

I don't have a problem with working through some info and calling something bad, but when it's every thread, your intentions have to come into play, since the bias is readily apparent.

ATS is supposed to be an "open" forum---the nastiness and general derision of debunkers to people who make posts are deeply concerning, and honestly, I could see why a new member would not want to make an important post with evidence for fear of being shouted down by the usual crowd.



posted on Nov, 21 2010 @ 04:47 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


As long as I have to believe in a theory opposed to the official story, it is nothing more than just another story to me.
You are entitled to believe what ever you want to believe... For my part, I want to know the whole truth and in search for the truth theories must be testet.
Otherwise I could just put on a fancy hat and start chanting "Jesus" or something.

Keep questioning everything... the official story aswell as the conscpiracy theory until we have found the truth.
Criticize and debunk the # out of it!



posted on Nov, 21 2010 @ 04:58 AM
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Great post Dark Ghost,

I agree with your views and you raised good points. To add, I have always been frustrated at how the MSM has always found a way to label conspiracy theorists as crazy hippies so to speak. It would be refreshing to be labeled rather as logical, critical thinkers in search of the truth in order to improve everyone's standard of life while promoting peace and equality.

When presented with an idea or theory, i hope that we can investigate all the avenues, and objectively assess the facts. We can't assume everything that we are told is the truth and therefore it is with the assistance of the ATS community that we can find our feet and start to unravel the mysteries. I feel that there is no point in attacking someone who is just trying to find answers.

I feel your post is a step in the right direction and I thank you for your intent.
S+F



posted on Nov, 21 2010 @ 05:01 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


Wow what a rant. Your entitled to that as am I.

The conspiracy theorist is a bit upset when their views are questioned. Hmmmmm Think about it, the hurt/anger (whatever the emotion you are feeling) is the same thing people who believe the OS feel when you brandish wild conspiracy theories at them. Really think about it!

Statements like "use your brain". "Think critically" give off the impression that you believe that people who do not think like you should not be here.

Conspiracy theorists are so condescending referring to people as "sheeple" and the like. No wonder they are fighting back against you! Some of things written in this site are a disgrace and I suppose it is gloves off!

ATS is a public forum & anybody is entitled to join & state their opinion. It's not a popularity contest where you can be banned just because you are unpopular with other members. Just remember that!
edit on 21-11-2010 by phatpackage because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 21 2010 @ 07:07 AM
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reply to post by phatpackage
 


Thank you for your reply. You have just illustrated very well the type of behaviour I was referring to. You have attempted to discredit me as somebody who thinks he knows it all and calls people with opposing views names because I think I'm smarter than them. You then decide to attack all Conspiracy Theorists as condescending. You have also implied that Conspiracy Theorists don't value the opinions of non-Conspiracy Theorists which is blatantly false.

If my post was a rant, then what was your reply?
edit on 21/11/2010 by Dark Ghost because: spelling



posted on Nov, 21 2010 @ 08:36 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


Ehh, he dose raise one or two useful points. Though I admit that some of his points weren't at all constructive, such as "nobody likes their viewpoints being questioned" (I'll admit that claiming that arguments are "a disgrace" is a bit offensive, but I've felt the same sometimes as I read articles which (I noticed as a science nerd) are flawed at there core (It tears my heart when people say (sorry but I need to resort to being mean) stupid things like "what would happen if we nuked the sun?!?! Luckily I haven't seen one of those here, but now I'm side tangenting into my own rant XD

But you must agree with him when he says "anyone is entitled to speak of what they will" I think that by this he is attempting to explane by method of example that no matter what you are posting, or where you are posting it there will always be people you oppose your viewpoints, and many are uneducated in the topic that they are talking about, be it astro-physics, nuclear chemistry, or the existence of aliens and conspiracy theories. (I remember when I first talked to a spiritualist about their beliefs, it is overwhelming to suddenly look at the world from a different vantage point, but the "teacher" must also remember to be patient, and allow the "student" to have a chance to breath.

Oh, yah and like the signature dark ghost.
edit on 21-11-2010 by sensen because: Oh yah...



posted on Nov, 21 2010 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 



And my point was you do the exact same thing!. This evidenced in your reply. That is exactly how you & others on this site make people who think differently to you feel. The point is the situation is here just live with it!. My opinion is you are wrong & have totally missed the point I was trying to make because you are so self absorbed in your own!!!!!! Have a good look at yourself you just criticized someone because they have different points of view to you, the very thing you are complaining about!. The word hypocrite comes to mind here! its like "Its alright for one but not the other" hmmmmmm
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posted on Nov, 21 2010 @ 07:52 PM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


Dark Ghost,

I support a lot of alternative viewpoints. Some of them are political, some of them medicinal, others are religious and spiritual. Heck, some fall into the realm of pseudo-science and the paranormal. However, the main problem that I find with conspiracy theories, and alternative viewpoints comes from the fanatics. Yes, the government, the Church, and our teachers have lied to us. But no, that does not mean everything they say is a lie. The world is not black and white; there are shades of gray, and we must all practice moderation.

The government lies, this is bad; we call them out on it. The government tells the truth and helps the world, this is good; we should praise them for it. The same goes for any other institution that a conspiracy theorist chooses to assault. Institutions are composed of individuals, and it will be a horrible day, the day we choose to ignore the individuals accountability in favor of mass-blame on an institution. Any institution can be cleansed, but we must call out the harmful individual to do so.

Do you understand what I'm trying to say here?



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 05:28 PM
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In my views the OP was aimed at people arguing with others just for the sake of it, or for one wanting to reinforce their own ego. In my views, we are all looking at situations and trying to get to the answers. And as Wondering Scribe said, this is to find individuals who are overtaken by greed, power and have the intent to gain something at the expense of another.
At the end of the day we are all here because we want to find the root cause and gain enlightenment. If someone raises a topic, they are asking for help. Why wouldn't you treat the person exactly the same way you would like to be treated if you were the one asking for guidance.
Two choices:
1. Point out how stupid and illogical someone is when they raise a point.
2. Put their mind to rest by explaining to them why there is no reason to worry.

It seems the second option would always be more self-fulfilling.
edit on 22-11-2010 by dyllels because: clarification

edit on 22-11-2010 by dyllels because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 05:32 PM
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reply to post by dyllels
 




1. Point out how stupid and illogical someone is when they raise a point


This is exactly what the OP & others in this site do to people who don't beleive their ideas. Could easily be proven by going through all the posts. As pointed out, the term "Sheeple" is bandied around this site. Do you not think this doing the exact thing the OP is complaining about? OP argument, massive fail "Pot calling the kettle black"



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 05:36 PM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 
Gaclklk...

gack..



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 05:39 PM
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whasamattawdifferincewhayayoutink.

gottafiigga



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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PPL cannot handle not being controlled,,explain freedom,most enjoy the way things are.///////...........



posted on Nov, 22 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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I agree with you based on his response but i assume it was frustration seeing as he was raising a concern about people being attacked and pulled apart only to have it to him in the very same thread. I'm sure I would feel the same way. We have all the same interests in mind. We should all just play nice

Phatpackage, I do feel however that your point was not criticising and was actually reaffirming what was said in the original post. I think it was taken in an offensive way when it wasn't meant to be?

I'm sure that a number of people believe that TPTB would be quite happy if we all resorted to unkind, inhumane behavior. So lets look out for each other, and if it turns out that TPTB don't care at all, i guess the worst thing we did was be nice.



posted on Nov, 23 2010 @ 12:12 PM
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Well as I was saying before, a large part of such conflict comes from each side attempting to "enlighten" each other too fast. lets take this out of the abstract. Bob is a neuroscientist, and Sally is a psychic. Bob has been taught in school that the phenomenon that Sally claims is a psychic ability is really brain damage in some part of Sally's brain. (Believe it or not i'm not a neuroscientist so I'm not going to attempt to incorporate too many details.) Bob can say one of the following:

Sally your an idiot with brain mush up your ears

Sally I understand that you think you are psychic, but in truth you are delusional, you have brain damage.

Or bob can slowly explane to sally the neuroscience behind her "disorder" and they can actually take time to talk it out.

Option 1 will most certainly lead to a buildup of believers and non-believers all ganging up on each other.

The second option could go a few ways. While Bob isn't being overly insulting, he isn't giving Sally much of a reason to change her mind. Perhaps Sally already knows she has brain damage, and thinks that she gets her powers from something being different in there, perhaps not. The point being that from Sally's perspective some random person online is calling her delusional. She probably expected to here it somewhere so she won't necessarily take Bob's warnings to heart.

Now through the third option Sally and Bob listen, rather than just waiting for a chance to hammer in their next insult they can try listening to each other with open minds (note that sally has to listen too as is illustrated in dark ghost's second post), and through their debate, if they are willing to give it the time to explane the fundamentals behind their viewpoints, and one of them may end up convincing the other. (I'm not saying who was right, because I'm not making up their whole discussion, if you want to know go have an intellectual debate

edit on 23-11-2010 by sensen because: minor rewording



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 04:57 AM
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reply to post by sensen
 


Good example you gave. The question that still arises from that scenario is whether the "Neuroscience" taught to Bob is reliable or not. See, the average person probably would believe that Sally is delusional and Bob is right - but what if the concepts taught to Bob are based off flawed reasoning? Not everything taught in school/university is 100% accurate and objective. Realistically, do you think deep down in his psyche Bob will be open-minded about Sally's views? Or will he simply be conditioning her to see that his ideas are based on (what he perceives as) truth and hers are not?

This is the trouble - people say they are open-minded when in reality they are only agreeing with aspects of the opposing view simply to weaken the defences of their opposition, as to synthesise this opposing view with aspects of their own view so that the other person eventually agrees with them. This tactic is used commonly on this forum; I admit to doing it myself at times without realising it at the time.

I definitely believe the third option is the best route for both people, but can we expect Bob to take Sally's views seriously when all his beliefs rest on the idea that she is delusional? Similarly, Sally is likely to view Bob's views as "constricted within the institutions he has been brought up in" and therefore not accurate.
edit on 24/11/2010 by Dark Ghost because: grammar



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 07:01 AM
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How exactly do you argue with someone who thinks computer languages involve black magic without referring to the persons ignorance of computers, engineering, and physics?



posted on Nov, 24 2010 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 

Dialectics. It's a good thing, especially in debate.

While criticism-free brainstorming can be a great way to discover ideas that are possibly true but never-before heard (and maybe if one wants to have a "brainstorming" thread they should state it in their OP), it is only the first step.

The truth is never uncovered in a one-sided bull session. Viewpoints need to be challenged before they can be shown to stand the test of reason.

If you are convinced your viewpoint is the truth, argue it against those who disagree. In this way you are doing your part to uncover the truth.

But attacking people who disagree with you is missing the point. The endgame of this approach is censorship.

If the official story on something is full of holes, continue to point out the holes. You'll never convince a diehard opponent, but a more-or-less disinterested lurker will be able to see who's hammering the points home and who's just being obstinate.



posted on Nov, 25 2010 @ 01:49 AM
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reply to post by Dark Ghost
 


Again you just don't see the point. So what I don't agree with you get on with it. I called your bluff. You do the exact thing you complain about. A little bit of advice. Opinions are like the human Anus, everybody has one. When they fart in a confined space no one likes it but they have to put up with it. What is someone gonna do kill them for farting?. ATS is a confined space & we all have opinions. Get into it debate, and don't cry like a little child because someone has hurt your feelings because they do not agree with you or think bad of you, who cares, the world goes on!. Get some backbone man, roll on like a stone. The very existence of this thread proves you are a wimp & don't respect the right for others to have an opinion. You are an epic fail! "Snap out of your dilemma!"

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