"Unthinkable": What would you do? Could you do the "Unthinkable"?, page 8
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ATS Members have flagged this thread 6 times


reply posted on 22-11-2010 @ 11:17 PM by DGFenrir
reply to post by SyphonX



The thing is that a scenario like that is a really desperate one. Desperate times call for desperate measures. If this happened in real life and the civilian population knew about it then they would probably demand the government to do anything possible to extract the information from the terrorists. They would probably be okay with invading or nuking the terrorist's homeland as well..


reply posted on 23-11-2010 @ 02:42 PM by Aeons
Originally posted by BillfromCovina
Originally posted by Aeons
Originally posted by 547000
reply to
post by Aeons



In the end, after all the questions, it is STILL a yes/no answer. Could you do it, or couldn't you? If you don't want to answer, say so, instead of assuming you're smarter than people who answered the question.


I guess the answer then is - I could find a better way when half tanked and you can't even conceive of anything other than yes or no on a good day.

en.wikipedia.org...

Enjoy your Fallacy of Logic.


Aeon, by drugging the person and finding a better way means you are not torturing them. By using any other method, you are not torturing. In essence you are saying that you would find a better way than torturing. This means no you would not torture.


No - I would PREFER not to.

I believe that institutionalized torture is a way for perverts to have the government siphon their prey to them. Period. There is no need EVER for it.

However, would I break someone's fingers if it meant finding a sniper on the field? Probably. Unless there was another way.



reply posted on 23-11-2010 @ 02:49 PM by Aeons
reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows



All the problems you just listed for drugs induced information is the same problem of torture induced information.

How do you screw up torture information? Assume that all your agents will talk. Teach them to lie. Lie early, lie often, lie fantastically and lie realistically. To babble insanely (not hard in the circumstances I'm sure). That way, when they start to tell the truth it is so mixed up in lies that telling the lies from the truth is the work of weeks and weeks.

Worse, in order to "prove" that it works, they have then torture MORE people in the same way to try and get more information to see if they cross-check.

So, you have EXACTLY the same problem. Only, now you've got an institution of torture backed up by pseudo science and people who are getting off on it.


reply posted on 24-11-2010 @ 10:03 PM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by ToneDeaf



The assumption that anyone that disagrees is not thinking for themselves is a laughable one. Much less blaming a phantom for everything that doesn't say what you want it to say.


reply posted on 24-11-2010 @ 10:06 PM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Aeons



Might wish to reacess what it is exactly you think I am saying and get back to me. I assure you, you don't have it correctly.


reply posted on 24-11-2010 @ 10:11 PM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by fonenyc



Hard to evacuate a city when you don't know which ones. Or do you propose evacuating all cities in such a situation?


reply posted on 24-11-2010 @ 10:14 PM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by andrewh7



Yes because a situation only goes how you say it should. Gotcha.


reply posted on 24-11-2010 @ 10:17 PM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by SyphonX



It's amazing the sheer amount of high and mighty boneheads will come to lord their opinion over those they view as intellectual inferiors.


reply posted on 24-11-2010 @ 10:40 PM by Advantage
Interesting thread. Not the OP so much as the responses.The OP has a major flaw in the scenario and the options we are given to choose from. I believe most of the responses are complete BS bravado. In my previous career there were big talkers who would start barfing if a bum puked or spit on them... real hard core folks out there.Probably would have fainted if they had to chose to kill to live or in the defense of another Torture and murder is another animal.. and in the OP scenario I do not see it being productive. Youd make him and his family a group martyrs in the service of Allah.. so much for that whole torture an d murder to get info idea, eh?

I am ashamed to admit that my previous career has desensitized me very much. Its easy to admit here as I dont have judgmental eyes on me I am desensitized more than I should be.. in my opinion. I feel I may be capable of more than just violence if I perceived a threat to my children or I needed to be brutal to reach an end to something that Id consider important. For myself alone, I probably woulnt be brutal. Im more motivated to pull out the stops for others.. like my family or the weak or defenseless. I do believe we have an obligation ( by god, the universe, being a human.. whatever reason) to shelter and defend the little things and the defenseless things. Im unsure if I would kill for or in defense of someone I couldnt identify with or feel a need to protect. KWIM?? I dont think killing would bother me much, but murder would. To me there is a difference. I dont think I would feel very bad afterward because I woudlnt just kill willy nillly.. Id have to have a reason and a good one to put myself inthe situation where that was a possibility in the first place. If I had that..a reason... no telling what Id do or how brutal I would be honestly.


reply posted on 25-11-2010 @ 01:45 AM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by Advantage



As I pointed out earlier. It's rather easy to write a loved one off as dead. It's a whole different matter to sit and watch them die painfully.



reply posted on 25-11-2010 @ 01:36 PM by teapot
reply to post by Watcher-In-The-Shadows



Was it (the OP) a test? Did I fail?

In my world, physical violence, no matter the provocation, just does not factor as the first resort. Unless of course, if I were subject to the Milgram experiment, in which case, who knows?

edit on 25/11/2010 by teapot because: edit



reply posted on 26-11-2010 @ 06:15 AM by Watcher-In-The-Shadows
reply to post by teapot



No it was a question. To which you responded in generalities like many have. Terrorists would have no qualms letting their familes die and etc. Which is what I was talking about. As I have pointed out a number of times now. It's relatively easy to write someone of as dead it is a wholly different matter to watch them die.
And that is just addressing one generalization I saw.
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