The Beaver Wars, also called the Iroquois Wars or the French and Iroquois Wars: Balkanization

Danbones do you or any other person reading this have a source to a good historical understanding of the Treaties and the parties involved to capture turtle island ...I was looking at the wiki posts ,but they seem to be ambiguous at best ...another mo , they seem to have ...

Originally posted by the2ofusr1
Danbones do you or any other person reading this have a source to a good historical understanding of the Treaties and the parties involved to capture turtle island ...I was looking at the wiki posts ,but they seem to be ambiguous at best ...another mo , they seem to have ...

For an exceedingly comprehensive first-person account of the French side of things, consult the Jesuit Relations puffin.creighton.edu....

For the perspective from south of the Lakes, consult Documents relative to the colonial history of the state of New York www.archive.org....

Both come from primary source material.

reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
The richest class was the ecclesiastical hierarchy-cardinals, archbishops,bishops, and abbots; among the poorest were the pastors and curates of the countryside; here the economic factor crossed the lines of doctrine, and in the Revolution the lower clergy joined with the commonalty against their own superiors. Monastic life had lost its lure; the Benedictines, numbering
6,434 in the France of 1770, had been reduced to 4,300 in 1790; nine orders of "religious" had been disbanded by 1780, and in 1773 the Society of Jesus (the Jesuits) had been dissolved. Religion in general had declined in the French cities;
This snip on top is from Will Durant
A History of European Civilization

from 1789 to 1815

I think a person might be side tracked by the Jesuits .The clergy suits are just at home in what ever fatigue that may be most beneficial ... it is a history of intrigue and dis info misinfo ...Those boys in the sheeps clothing are guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity ...

Thanks for the links ....peace

Originally posted by the2ofusr1
I think a person might be side tracked by the Jesuits .The clergy suits are just at home in what ever fatigue that may be most beneficial ... it is a history of intrigue and dis info misinfo ...Those boys in the sheeps clothing are guilty of genocide and crimes against humanity ... Thanks for the links ....peace

But given that we don't have written descriptions from the First Nations, per se, the Relations are invaluable in providing us with a contemporary picture of the New World and as such are a valuable research tool.

You are correct ...I was looking for a good summary of the Treaties signed by the European Kings that pertain to north America .It seems that we are missing half of the truth and most of the picture ...I guess they thought it better to do it that way,so as to make it plausible, to deny .I think if a bunch of people on turtle island became Algonquin they wouldn't be owned by the Crown ,or any of the other corporation. We as humans have the right to leave any society we may belong to .even the law society .

JC and 2ofusr1
I whole heartededly agree in regards to both of your opinions on the relations
I have some exposure to the oral tradition because the relations in large part were writen in my front yard...
and yes excellent Idea
I'll go hunt some treaty info down if I can...

good links JC excellent contribution...thank you.

tolatsga.org... In this link is a history of the Algonkin in North America .Is it a good overall picture? I think I read it a few years back but at that time my mind was always on a tangent so I may not have finished it .I am rereading it now ...peace

reply to post by the2ofusr1


That link proves to be a significant resource for the convo at hand. Thanks for posting.

I posted this on the all roads lead to rome thread ...I hope you dont mind if I post this here ..You can have a mod remove it if it is wrong ....I was reading some history today and like usual I went off in a tangent ..For your consideration or any one else ..I will start off with my first lead ..1613 . Treaty between the Iroquois and representatives of the Dutch government ...My next find...............
Dutch people, or descendants of Dutch people, are also found in migrant communities worldwide, notably in Suriname, Canada, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, and the United States. In the Middle Ages the Northern Low Countries were part of the periphery of the Holy Roman Empire, and the various territories of which they consisted had de facto become virtually autonomous by the 13th century.
The absence of most natural riches in the region traditionally inhabited by the Dutch, led to a trade-oriented, and trade-dependent, society. Positioned among some of the most important rivers of Western Europe and near the sea, Dutch cities dominated European and even world trade for more than a century, lending the Dutch themselves a reputation for being excellent merchants, and, at times, even being synonomous with the word itself.

Dutch immigrants also exported the Dutch language. Dutch was spoken in United States as a native language from the arrival of the first permanent Dutch settlers in 1615, surviving in isolated ethnic pockets until ~1900, when it ceased to be spoken with the exception of 1st generation Dutch immigrants. The Dutch language nevertheless had a significant impact on the region around New York. For example, the first language of American president Martin Van Buren was Dutch....Notice that the wiki entry for the first treaty was 1613 but says 1615 was the first settlers ...

Now if you read threw this link en.wikipedia.org... You can see that those Dutch were anything but simple and small . The Dutch East India Company (Vereenigde Oost-Indische Compagnie or VOC in Dutch, literally "United East Indian Company") was a chartered company established in 1602, when the States-General of the Netherlands granted it a 21-year monopoly to carry out colonial activities in Asia.


The Dutch had settled in America long before the establishment of the United States of America. For a long time the Dutch lived in Dutch colonies, owned and regulated by the Dutch Republic, which later became part of the Thirteen Colonies.

Most future waves of Dutch immigrants were quickly assimilated. There have been three American presidents of Dutch descent: Martin Van Buren (8th, first president who was not of British descent, first language was Dutch), Franklin D. Roosevelt (32nd, elected to four terms in office, he served from 1933 to 1945, the only U.S. president to have served more than two terms) and Theodore Roosevelt (26th).

The name United Empire Loyalists is an honorific name given after the fact to those American Loyalists who resettled in British North America and other British Colonies as an act of fealty to King George III after the British defeat in the American Revolutionary War and prior to the Treaty of Paris. They went north because the British offered them free land, or because they rejected the republican ideals of the American Revolution.....This part seems like a bs statment to me ...

The Pennsylvania Dutch are the descendants of Germanic peoples who emigrated to the U.S. (primarily to Pennsylvania), from Germany, Switzerland and The Low Countries prior to 1800.[citation needed] The origin of 'Dutch' is a "folk-rendering" of the Pennsylvania Dutch's own self-designation Deitsch. It corresponds to German Deutsch, and indeed the Pennsylvania Dutch come mostly from what is now Germany rather than the Netherlands

OK so I will end with this ....

Statistically, the VOC eclipsed all of its rivals in the Asia trade. Between 1602 and 1796 the VOC sent almost a million Europeans to work in the Asia trade on 4,785 ships, and netted for their efforts more than 2.5 million tons of Asian trade goods. By contrast, the rest of Europe combined sent only 882,412 people from 1500 to 1795, and the fleet of the English (later British) East India Company, the VOC’s nearest competitor, was a distant second to its total traffic with 2,690 ships and a mere one-fifth the tonnage of goods carried by the VOC. The VOC enjoyed huge profits from its spice monopoly through most of the 17th century.

The Dutch East India Company remained an important trading concern for almost two centuries, paying an 18% annual dividend for almost 200 years. In its declining years in the late 18th century it was referred to as Vergaan Onder Corruptie (referring to the acronym VOC) which translates as 'Perished By Corruption'. The VOC became bankrupt and was formally dissolved in 1800, its possessions and the debt being taken over by the government of the Dutch Batavian Republic. The VOC's territories became the Dutch East Indies and were expanded over the course of the 19th century to include the whole of the Indonesian archipelago, and in the 20th century would form Indonesia.

When we travel the road to Rome one cannot stop and pause at the size of our little dutch friends even less intimading than the Jesuits .........peace

reply to post by the2ofusr1
To add to the above ....I am getting this from en.wikipedia.org...

Dutch West India Company (Dutch: Geoctroyeerde Westindische Compagnie or GWIC; English: Chartered West India Company) was a chartered company (known as the "GWC") of Dutch merchants. Among its founding fathers was Willem Usselincx (1567-1647?). On June 2, 1621, it was granted a charter for a trade monopoly in the West Indies (meaning the Caribbean) by the Republic of the Seven United Netherlands and given jurisdiction over the African slave trade, Brazil, the Caribbean, and North America. The area where the company could operate consisted of West Africa (between the Tropic of Cancer and the Cape of Good Hope) and the Americas, which included the Pacific Ocean and the eastern part of New Guinea. The intended purpose of the charter was to eliminate competition, particularly Spanish or Portuguese, between the various trading posts established by the merchants. The company became instrumental in the Dutch colonization of the Americas.

The company was initially relatively successful; in the 1620s and 1630s, many trade posts or colonies were established. The New Netherland area, which included New Amsterdam, covered parts of present-day New York, Connecticut, Delaware, and New Jersey. Other settlements were established on the Netherlands Antilles, several other Caribbean islands, Suriname and Guyana. The largest success for the GWC in its history was the seizure of the Spanish silver fleet, which carried silver from Spanish colonies to Spain, by Piet Heyn in 1628; privateering was at first the most profitable activity. In 1630, the colony of New Holland (capital Mauritsstad, present-day Recife) was formed, taking over Portuguese possessions in Brazil. In Africa, posts were established on the Gold Coast (now Ghana) and briefly in Angola. In the Americas, fur (North America) and sugar (South America) were the most important trade goods, while African settlements traded slaves—mainly destined for the plantations on the Antilles and Suriname—gold, and ivory.

Henry Hudson (c. 1560/70s[3] – 1611?) was an English sea explorer and navigator in the early 17th century. After several voyages on behalf of English merchants to explore a prospective Northeast Passage to India, Hudson explored the region around modern New York City while looking for a western route to Asia under the auspices of the Dutch East India Company.[4] He explored the river which eventually was named for him, and laid thereby the foundation for Dutch colonization of the region.

Note that Hudson was responcible for the Dutch settlements of North America ... Hudson discovered a strait and immense bay on his final expedition while searching for the Northwest Passage. In 1611, after wintering on the shore of James Bay, Hudson wanted to press on to the west, but most of his crew mutinied. The mutineers cast Hudson, his son and others adrift,[2] and no one saw him or his companions again. The Treaty between the Iroquois and representatives of the Dutch government was made in 1613 ...2 years after hudson was in New York.

In 1609, Hudson was chosen by the Dutch East India Company to find an easterly passage to Asia.[19] He was told to sail through the Arctic Ocean north of Russia, into the Pacific and so to the Far East. Hudson departed Amsterdam on April 4 in command of the Dutch ship Halve Maen.[20] He could not complete the specified route because ice blocked the passage, as with all previous such voyages, and he turned the ship around in mid-May while somewhere east of Norway's North Cape. At that point, acting entirely outside his instructions, Hudson pointed the ship west to try to find a passage in that direction.[21]

The
Hudson River The river was called Muh-he-kun-ne-tuk, the Great Mohegan, by the Iroquois,[3][4][5] or as the Lenape Native Americans called it in Unami, Muhheakantuck.

The Hudson was named the "North River" by the Dutch, who called the Delaware River the "South River." The name "North River" was used in the New York City area up until the early 1900s, with limited use continuing into the modern day.[6] The term persists in radio communication among commercial shipping traffic, especially below Tappan Zee.[7]

It was the English who originated the use of the name "Hudson"—because Hudson had found the river while exploring for the Dutch
The Dutch Empire grew to become one of the major seafaring and economic powers of the 17th century. In the Dutch Golden Age ("Gouden Eeuw"), colonies and trading posts were established all over the world. Dutch settlement in North America began with the founding of New Amsterdam, on the southern tip of Manhattan in 1614. In South Africa, the Dutch settled the Cape Colony in 1652. By 1650, the Dutch owned 16,000 merchant ships.[17] During the 17th century, the Dutch population increased from an estimated 1.5 million to almost 2 million

Many economic historians regard the Netherlands as the first thoroughly capitalist country in the world. In early modern Europe it featured the wealthiest trading city (Amsterdam) and the first full-time stock exchange. The inventiveness of the traders led to insurance and retirement funds as well as phenomena such as the boom-bust cycle, the world's first asset-inflation bubble, the tulip mania of 1636–1637, and, according to Murray Sayle, the world's first bear raider, Isaac le Maire, who forced prices down by dumping stock and then buying it back at a discount.[19] The republic went into a state of general decline in the later 18th century, with economic competition from England and long standing rivalries between the two main factions in Dutch society, the Staatsgezinden (Republicans) and the Prinsgezinden (Royalists or Orangists) as main factors.

I will end for now but we can see that some info I have pulled of wiki seems to have missing info ...where was Hudson borne? In one search about hudson it says the Dutch sent him back to England ....I found a story and I forget where but It said t hat Hudson orignally named the Hudson river after a captain he searved under ..It was a dutch name ???...peace

Originally posted by the2ofusr1
The name United Empire Loyalists is an honorific name given after the fact to those American Loyalists who resettled in British North America and other British Colonies as an act of fealty to King George III after the British defeat in the American Revolutionary War and prior to the Treaty of Paris. They went north because the British offered them free land, or because they rejected the republican ideals of the American Revolution.....This part seems like a bs statment to me ...

Where the BS enters the equation is the omission that that those who remained loyal to the crown...and there were indeed many...suffered severe harassment in the 13 Colonies, and so made their way north. Often these multi-generational colonial families were forced to escape with nothing, their lands and holdings virtually forfeit. Even today, to claim UEL roots confers a certain cachet to those who attach importance to such things. Sadly...I don't.

I did a little checking about the Loyalists that came to New Brunswick and there are many Dutch and German ..one site on the forum was going threw a lot of head scratching about how they could have been Loyalists ....I think it was always the same MO...Drop off some french slaves here,pick up some black slaves here take these other slaves there write a history book saying this or that ...peace

Hi ... I found this vid about secret societies [ Jesuits..etc] and thought I would pass along..... peace amazingdiscoveries.tv...