My insight about TSA since I'm a pilot.

This is a tough one, we need security but they are taking it a little too far. Terrorists are not exactly stupid, or at least the individuals planning their actions are not and we do need as much security as possible. If we keep fighting the searches I predict another false flag attack very soon to scare us into complying. I do not mind being searched at the airport, but if anyone tries to touch my no no's, I will be going to jail that day. I think they need smarter people to figure out how to be as secure as possible without scaring people or embarassing them by touching their junk.

Here in Aussie land, I believe tptb have decided not to go the way of the USA in the way pat downs are done. I believe profiling is the way to go and what about using sniffer dogs? they use them for countless other tasks. Rather a dog sniffing my 'junk' than someone feeling me up lol.

reply to post by xweaponx


My side is that you work for the State and are trying to sound objective while actually promoting the State's agenda.

The TSA is a criminal organization that violates search and seizure law and violates due process.

The TSA should not exist. Only private security organizations have the right to search people who voluntarily submit to a screening. The government can not engage in such behavior without necessarily violating our rights.

Voluntary choice requires voluntary actors.

There is nothing voluntary about the TSA.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by xweaponx

 

The TSA should not exist. Only private security organizations have the right to search people who voluntarily submit to a screening. The government can not engage in such behavior without necessarily violating our rights.

A???

Private security do?

Let me see where that RIGHT is established

I think the only "RIGHT" people have is to not fly unfortunately

reply to post by weedwhacker


I shall agree wholeheartedly with the "whacker of weeds", I often do....It is to provide an illusion of security...do I hetest having to go through a security check? Of course......I went through multiple criminal and background checks just to be allowed to fly.....What if I am under duress? (watch the Event).....the current level of security would not pick that up.....I am authorized to carry a weapon in the cockpit...do I need to go through security? hell, no.........

Originally posted by fixer1967
As you are a pilot then answer me this. Do you see any pilots that are saying they have had it and are quitting or retiring early because of the TSA mess and other problems the airlines is having now days. Is there a day coming when there are planes but no pilots to fly them? Tell us how your pilot friends feel about this. Tell us how other flight crew members feel about what is going on.

I'm trying to reply to everyones questions and right now I'm a bit sleepy. So in the morning I will reply to more.

First I'd like to answer your question. No the FORCED retirement age for pilots is 60. Many pilots are not going to quit over some dumb stuff the TSA pulls. We laugh at it in the cabin, along with deep other decisions we have. The airline industry isn't in that bad of shape really. Yeah the price of fuel sucks at the moment but that's all controlled via government. Now in the pilot lodge where we all get weather briefings and flight briefing most of us hate the new TSA rules and regulations, we believe there's a better way to ensure safety. Now I'll tell you where they REALLY need to focus on. There is a MAJOR loop hole in the maintenance area and maintenance hangers, most maintenance personnel DO NOT go through any type of security. When plane "parts" are ordered they ship them in leave them in big crates and those crates don't get inspected. So that is the most insecure loop hole. The TSA needs to quit picking on grandma, little johnny and look into who gets onto the airport without security. Mainly "maintenance personnel, hanger owners, plane owners, gate security and control tower people", all by-pass any security check point.

Originally posted by wcitizen
Have a look at the Protocols of Zion and you will see what the agenda is. It has been 'debunked' as fiction and anti-semitic, but have a read and you will see it is not fiction, it's a road map of what has happened, what is happening and what is intended to happen.

Where could I read this at? I'm very interested in what is "intended to happen".

Originally posted by mblahnikluver

I don't agree with the scanners at all and I will gladly take a pat down. It's for safety and well with flying being the most terrifying thing for me I want to make sure I feel safe.

Ok, well when you have no rights left at all, just remember, it was all for SAFETY

Sorry, no offense, but this is exactly the kind of 'sheeple' thinking that is going to screw EVERYONE in the end.
I'm SO sick of hearing "it's for safety". SCREW safety! You will never be 100% safe, ever in your life.
People need to realize that our rights as citizens, as HUMAN BEINGS, are far more important than the idea of safety for something that most likely won't happen, and if it does, there is absolutely NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.
If someone wants to blow up a plane, they will find a way!

reply to post by xweaponx


Just do a google search for Protocols of Zion. You'll find many references.



Here's a link to a pdf. www.solargeneral.com...


It's also referred to as the Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion.

Originally posted by casijones

Originally posted by mblahnikluver

I don't agree with the scanners at all and I will gladly take a pat down. It's for safety and well with flying being the most terrifying thing for me I want to make sure I feel safe.

Ok, well when you have no rights left at all, just remember, it was all for SAFETY

Sorry, no offense, but this is exactly the kind of 'sheeple' thinking that is going to screw EVERYONE in the end.
I'm SO sick of hearing "it's for safety". SCREW safety! You will never be 100% safe, ever in your life.
People need to realize that our rights as citizens, as HUMAN BEINGS, are far more important than the idea of safety for something that most likely won't happen, and if it does, there is absolutely NOTHING YOU CAN DO ABOUT IT.
If someone wants to blow up a plane, they will find a way!

Seriously grow up! I'm not a sheep but I value my life. Pat downs are just that a pat down. If you don't like it it's simple DON'T fly!

This whole TSA pat down crap is getting a little ridiculous. Do they need to change their methods? Yes of course but I don't see anything wrong with pat downs. I think the airports should have their own security.


To anyone....is this recent where they started patting people down in airports? I flew in July and didn't have to go thru any body scanner and I wasn't patted down.

Originally posted by xweaponx
What are your thoughts on the TSA? You like what they are doing or hate? How would you if you could build a security system for the airlines what would you have in place vs the current TSA procedure?

The TSA, born out of the resulting paranoia of 9/11, is out of control. They are invasive to a degree over and above that which is required to safeguard the airlines and their passengers. They are also inadequate to the task they've taken on, which is only focussed on the airline industry. What's to stop a bomber from using trains, buses or cars to terrorize the public?

I hate what they're doing because it's useless. If each and every flyer was scanned, patted down and cavity searched, you might feel safer winding up those engines and taxiing out onto the runway, but then, that would depend entirely on the efficiency of the TA employees, wouldn't it? People do make mistakes, you know.

How would I make flying completely secure? Easy. Stop anyone who is not 110% cleared by Homeland Security from flying, including pilots. In other words, just about everybody. People's thinking changes with the wind and we could never be sure that someone, someday, might not take it into their heads to cram a pound of undetectable explosives into their unmentionable cavities and make it through the scanning procedures.

Stop people from taking trains and buses as well as interstate/intercity travel. Keep everybody sitting at home, in front of their 3D TV's and eating Doritos.

Lockdown USA.

A lot of what is going on with the TSA is hype.

HOWEVER - the fundamental problem is that all of the measures being utilized by the TSA are purely static. For instance - chemical "sniffers" can be defeated through the mixing of individual components that will not register as explosive residue on luggage. Pat-downs and scanners can be tested to reveal materials that remain elusive to security measures and used to design a weapon that will have a higher chance of evading detection.

In the mean time - these static methods only serve to impede the normal and effective function of services; in essence, nullifying the very reason you are performing the security checks in the first place.

Static defenses work in the same sense that a wall does. A wall does not just tell you not to pass, it stands in your way. Human ingenuity can quickly overcome such basic obstacles - climbing, for instance. Wires can be cut and protection can be worn, holes can be dug and tunneled under the wall, etc. Each time, a new way of getting around the wall is discovered, a way of defeating that method can be created and employed.

The TSA, as it is used presently, is static. It is a wall that is continually being upgraded to deal with different attempts to get around it. However, the wall doesn't change. One can sit back for hours, weeks, months - years, and discover a way around that wall that has yet to be accounted for.

This is why dynamic defenses are necessary, and something the TSA needs to adopt and employ. A dynamic response is aware of threats and attempts to get around the wall (or cause harm to what is on the other side of it). The dynamic response does what the wall cannot - change. Air Marshals are a good example of dynamic defenses. Who is an Air Marshal? Who isn't? Makes it difficult and nearly impossible to plan a terrorist attack.

Thus, the amount of scanning and darn-near stripping to get through airport security should be cut back immensely. You don't need guns and knives on an airplane - check the knives, have a permit/notice for the firearms. Put undercover air marshals on intercontinental flights or on flights intel suggests may be targeted - if someone acts up, taser them until the battery runs dry.

It is the best combination of security and freedom. We don't need to be treated like criminals and strip-searched just to get on a damned plane. I'm just a passenger on flights - but if someone acts up, I am trained in un-augmented and augmented combat - he'd/she'd better have more than a box-cutter to deal with me, I'm not afraid to bleed, and I'll be damned if some nut wants to turn my ride into a religious/political/social statement.

And as far as the TSA - they are like a number of borderline-civilian enforcement agencies. I've had to fight back the instinctive urge to assault police officers I've seen using weapons in ways I know they are trained not to - many of our RSOs in the reserves also train the police forces outside of their military career - so I know how they are (and should) be trained. I don't appreciate it when deputy Rambo comes jumping around the corner with a damned AR-15 (drawn and leveled) and poor trigger discipline after his senior officer has a 9mm drawn (and similar trigger discipline issues) in response to someone working after hours at a restaurant. I guess they were looking to bust a meth plant, or something - who the hell knows.

In either case - you always get those who just like to order people around. Were I in charge of them, I'd fire them on the spot, and wouldn't care if I had a 99% attrition rate - I'd keep firing until I found someone who could handle the job. Other managers aren't so quality oriented.