Canadians vote against fluoridated water supplies

Yeah Canada!

www.cosmeticdentistryguide.co.uk...

There is alot of debate about fluoride these days ands its effects on health. The article states that dentists are outraged by this...my question is why? If non fluoridated water will lead to bad teeth, then dentists will see more business..right? Seems dentists only look at the dental benifits, but does it benefit health?

I believe this a good move as it should be our own desicion to add fluoride to our drinking water. If fluoride is so good for our teeth, then instead of forcing us to drink it, sell bottles for people to add it themselves instead of forcing us to drink it.

"Fluorides are toxic to humans, however calcium fluoride is considered relatively harmless due to its extreme insolubility." Now if fluoride is so toxic to humans then why is sodium fluoride forced on us instead of the less toxic calcium fluoride.

"Fluoride taken in large quantities over time slowly poisons the human body. Prolonged intake of treated water that contains more than 2 parts fluoride per million (ppm) can lead to discolored, mottled or brownish enamel on the teeth. Extremely high concentrations, over 8 ppm can contribute to bone disorders, kidney, liver and adrenal failure as well as the heart, reproductive system and central nervous system. This is especially dangerous in young children and the elderly." Hmmm

Sounds like a win for Canadians as people are becoming more aware.

woohoo! this is great news. i look forward to a day when i can feel good about drinking from my tap!
thanks for the post

reply to post by ZiggyStardust


Your welcome, I also think this is great news. I just brought up my areas water tests and they add 0.10 mg/l fluoride to our tap water, not sure how many ppm that is, but I hope this campaign reaches throughout Canada. Buying water isn't cheap, and seeing how I already pay for the tap water and now recently have had meters installed, it would be nice to have confidence in drinking from the tap again.

I've never understood the justification for fluoridation of water supplies.
What about the people who already have strong healthy teeth?
Do they need fluoride as well?
Here in Wales (UK), fluoridation was voted against.
Suddenly dentists could no longer afford to make a decent living and had to move away or go private.
Dental problems escalated, and recently the government have been going on about fluoridation again (For people in poorer areas, of course).
I read somewhere that fluoride bonds with the calcium in the bone structure of the human body, and causes skeletal and dental fluorosis (Not sure of the spelling there).
Maybe that's why calcium fluoride is not the preferred option, as the fluoride is already bonded with the calcium in the compound, and is less likely to bond with the calcium in the body.

I'm no expert on this, by the way, but these thoughts and ideas keep rattling around my brain, so if anyone can put me right on anything I've said, please do so.

Cheers.

reply to post by quest4info


wether canadians have decided against flouride in the water or not is inconsequential...flouride WILL be put in thier water wether they like it or not, WE the people have no voice anymore,,,if the government wants flouride in the water then flouride it is....here in the uk we didnt want it and faught against it...but it happened anyway, they dont care what WE want, they just make it look as though we have a right to decide .

reply to post by NWOnoworldorder


Well unfortunately I think your right. Things are always being shoved down are throats that we dont want. I guess the bottom line is we have to be responsible for our own health. I'm tired of buying distilled water so it looks like my next investment will be a filter system that removes fluoride. And ts not just the water, I know people, myself included, who refuse the cup o fluoride the dentist wants to put in your mouth during a cleaning, and those assistants just look in awe like i'm wierd. I guess as long as we are aware it is in the water, and the possible health effects, then at least we can make an educated decision on how to deal with it.

reply to post by quest4info

Yeah Canada!

More like "Yeah ignorant pseudoscience and just general ignorance trumping knowledge/ reason and most, if not all, of the relevant field of professionals and experts on the subject".

Another sad day for Canada...

The article states that dentists are outraged by this...my question is why?

Does this really need to be answered? Dentists improve teeth, fluoride improves teeth, I'm not sure how this is a real question...

then dentists will see more business..right?

Yes, but maybe they have more in mind than making money...? Doctors don't go around promoting knife fighting so they'll have more patients...

If fluoride is so good for our teeth, then instead of forcing us to drink it, sell bottles for people to add it themselves instead of forcing us to drink it.

They're "forcing" you because it improves teeth and has no harmful effects at proper concentrations and because people are persuaded by pseudoscience and just jump on the anti science bandwagon and protest it for whatever reason.

"Fluorides are toxic to humans, however calcium fluoride is considered relatively harmless due to its extreme insolubility."

Toxicity is determined by dosage and by it's effects, water is toxic at some levels. Calcium fluoride and sodium fluoride are both fluoride. Fluoride is fluoride. It was discovered by investigating dental fluorosis cases caused by naturally occurring calcium fluoride, and is also the leading cause of skeletal fluorosis in India as it occurs in drastically higher concentrations. So, moot points regardless.

Now if fluoride is so toxic to humans then why is sodium fluoride forced on us instead of the less toxic calcium fluoride.

Calcium fluoride isn't "less toxic", and we use sodium fluoride as it's more soluble(dissociation). Also, probably cheaper and easier to get, but that's irrelevant.

Fluoride taken in large quantities over time slowly poisons the human body

You're not getting it in large quantities and a lot of it is discharged out of the body anyways.

Prolonged intake of treated water that contains more than 2 parts fluoride per million (ppm) can lead to discolored, mottled or brownish enamel on the teeth.

Dental flourosis only occurs while enamel is forming and again, you're not getting more than 2 ppm. (That's still a relatively low number for dental fluorosis)

Extremely high concentrations, over 8 ppm can contribute to bone disorders,

You're not getting over 8 ppm and unless your source knows something the scientific community does not, the consensus is that it has no effect bone health.

...kidney, liver and adrenal failure as well as the heart, reproductive system and central nervous system.

Sources or just random accusations?

Sounds like a win for Canadians as people are becoming more aware.

No, people are just as naive and uninformed as they've always been about science and easily swayed by some pseudoscience. Apparently the anti-fluoridationists are just noticing this.

Edit - To answer...

I just brought up my areas water tests and they add 0.10 mg/l fluoride to our tap water, not sure how many ppm that is...

It's 1 PPM

It's certainly a win for me 'cause flouride causes my gums to recede and makes them sensitive. When I switched to non-flouridated toothpaste, I haven't had any cavities, and my teeth are whiter..

reply to post by juniperberry


Without going into my pro-water fluoridation rage, did your previous toothpaste contain sodium lauryl sulfate? Aside from the other reasons of why your gums were sensitive / receding, sounds likely considering it stopped when you switched toothpastes.

reply to post by Whyhi


Yes it did.. and that could have been a contributing factor, but when I had my wisdom teeth pulled (4 impacted), the dentist gave me a vial of pure flouride.. OMG.. I used it once and suffered for HOURS (and it wasn't the new holes in my mouth that were suffering).. so now I use JASON brand with no flouride and no sodium lauryl sulfate..

Couldn't be happier..

reply to post by juniperberry


Yeah, sodium lauryl sulfate is known to irritate some people, and would exacerbate problems in people who have sensitivity issues etc. I'd imagine he gave you the fluoride as a substitute for brushing for the time being, as my experience getting wisdom teeth pulled, you aren't going to be doing too much with that area.

I'd still say use a SLS free fluoride toothpaste but it's your teeth.

Well in this day and age I have to "pick and choose my poisons" so I choose to drop flouride off my list for the time being..as well as SLA.

And I made a rule that if I can't pronounce it or has anything that looks like a petroleum product, it definitely doesn't come anywhere near me. I even shudder at mineral oil.

Now if we can only stop them from adding bleach to our city water...

reply to post by juniperberry

And I made a rule that if I can't pronounce it or has anything that looks like a petroleum product, it definitely doesn't come anywhere near me. I even shudder at mineral oil.

Well that's a little misleading. I mean people are going to be using 'scientific' names, not common words. For instance, people can start calling water hydrogen oxide / hydrogen hydroxide / hydroxic acid / hydroxylic acid or dihydrogen monoxide, but they're all just water. Check out the DHMO hoax for an example, and yes, several communities almost succeeded in getting products that contain DHMO banned.

DHMO site
DHMO Hoax

reply to post by Whyhi


There is an easy solution, you want fluoride? Then put it in your own water supply. Human beings do have the right to choose what they put in their bodies.

reply to post by dalan.


I don't have a problem with people viewing it as a issue of 'should this be put into water supplies', obviously you'd know my opinion on that. My problem is when people start throwing around pseudoscience about the "dangers" of fluoride when they're clearly being misled themselves.

Yup, it was just removed from Waterloo's water system. Kitchener never had any.

Thank god.

So many people are now awake about it in my community, its amazing. Its a miracle.

And believe me when I say this is waking everyone up about a lot more also.

reply to post by Whyhi


Well didnt think references where needed for this topic. But heres one for you.

www.jtbaker.com...

DANGER! MAY BE FATAL IF SWALLOWED OR INHALED. AFFECTS RESPIRATORY SYSTEM, HEART, SKELETON, CIRCULATORY SYSTEM, CENTRAL NERVOUS SYSTEM AND KIDNEYS. CAUSES IRRITATION TO SKIN, EYES AND RESPIRATORY TRACT. IRRITATION EFFECTS MAY BE DELAYED.

But i'm not here to argue with you, keep on brushing your teeth with fluoride, make sure you get it good under your tongue. Keep on drinking that tap water.

Peace

Originally posted by Whyhi
reply to post by juniperberry

 

And I made a rule that if I can't pronounce it or has anything that looks like a petroleum product, it definitely doesn't come anywhere near me. I even shudder at mineral oil.

Well that's a little misleading. I mean people are going to be using 'scientific' names, not common words. For instance, people can start calling water hydrogen oxide / hydrogen hydroxide / hydroxic acid / hydroxylic acid or dihydrogen monoxide, but they're all just water. Check out the DHMO hoax for an example, and yes, several communities almost succeeded in getting products that contain DHMO banned.

DHMO site
DHMO Hoax

Maybe I should be a little more specific.. if they can't tell me what the heck it is in plain english (ie, "a synthetic derivative of coconut oil") then I'm not buying it. I don't use google on my smartphone yet so I can't just look up a "scientific name" while I'm in the store.. and with the phrases you use above, why can't they just say "water"? At least some products use the term "aqua" which is really stupid if the rest of the terms are in english.

Anyway, my beef isn't so much about the use of flouride (in very small quantities), but the fact they actually FORCE us to use it whether we want to or not. And do we know any side effects of having flouride absorbed into the bloodstream via the mouth and any medicines or drugs the person is taking at the time?
So many questions that need answering...

reply to post by quest4info


Yeah, that's a MSDS sheet for 100% fluoride. At extreme concentrations like this, almost anything can be poisonous. For instance:

Oxygen Toxicity

dition resulting from the harmful effects of breathing molecular oxygen (O2) at elevated partial pressures. It is also known as oxygen toxicity syndrome, oxygen intoxication, and oxygen poisoning...Severe cases can result in cell damage and death, with effects most often seen in the central nervous system, lungs and eyes. Oxygen toxicity is a concern for scuba divers, those on high concentrations of supplemental oxygen (particularly premature babies), and those undergoing hyperbaric oxygen therapy.

Or hey, what about the stuff that fluoride is being put into?

Water Intoxication

Water intoxication (also known as hyper-hydration or water poisoning) is a potentially fatal disturbance in brain functions that results when the normal balance of electrolytes in the body is pushed outside of safe limits by over-consumption of water. Water can be considered a poison when over-consumed just like any other substance. The recommendation from the medical field is to drink at least 1 - 2 liters per day depending upon body mass. Water intoxication would only occur at levels far higher than that.

Should we rid ourselves of oxygen and water as well? Or are those alright at there concentrations and consumption levels? Again...

TOXICITY IS DOSE-DEPENDENT

Honestly, if you even TRIED to acquire any of those symptoms you linked by drinking fluoridated water intake, you'd die from water before fluoride even has a chance to do anything. Half the symptoms are from contact with solid fluoride even...like should I really expect eye irritation from water that's fluoridated at 1 PPM?

Except that the body knows how to deal effectively with water and oxygen. There are entire processes that deal specifically with air (in which oxygen is only a percentage), and with water.

However, the body doesn't have a regulatory system for flouride. It is not efficiently metabolized so it sits in the liver and other structures until the body can shove it out with more acceptable constituents that it HAS metabolized properly.

So, if we're sitting here brushing our teeth 2-3 times a day, drinking flouridated water, eating food that has been processed with flouridated water, our bodies are going to start storing it up as it can't get rid of it fast enough. This is where it becomes problematic over a long period of time. Your liver is attempting to process flouride as well as a thousand other unknown unnecessary chemicals and metals and eventually you'll start seeing the effects of poisoning even though no one will know exactly why..