$11,000 fine, arrest possible for some who refuse airport scans and pat downs

Originally posted by snowspirit
On the other hand, what do they do with the odd people that really enjoy the fondling/pat downs. The ones that try to slip back into the line for more

I don't think that has happened yet.

The time for talk has come and gone, If people allow this to be done, we are doomed. When people see others being abused by laws that are wrong, they need to get some guts and step in to stop it. That means everyone! do not allow them to intimidate you. There is not much that can be done on there part if you out number them 10 to 1 I don’t think that there is a court out there, or a force out there that will prosecute a large group, there are too many witnesses against there side. We need to start getting physical to stop this if need be.

Stop flying. It is the surest way to bring this to a stop. Bring the airlines to their knees and their lobbyists will do the rest.

It does involve a sacrifice, ie. not flying ...... but if you aren't prepared to do that at this stage, there's nothing left to say, except that you deserve what you get.

Originally posted by xyankee
The time for talk has come and gone, If people allow this to be done, we are doomed. When people see others being abused by laws that are wrong, they need to get some guts and step in to stop it. That means everyone! do not allow them to intimidate you. There is not much that can be done on there part if you out number them 10 to 1 I don’t think that there is a court out there, or a force out there that will prosecute a large group, there are too many witnesses against there side. We need to start getting physical to stop this if need be.

Your sentiments are correct and that mentality must begin at the County Sheriff's office. There is not a single Federal "AGENT" who has jurisdiction or authority comparable to the ELECTED Sheriff. Until the Sheriffs in this country realize their authority and set up checkpoints to check the Feds, we'll live under whatever administrative tyranny deemed appropriate by the bureaucrats who think they are in control.

There is no more powerful law enforcement entity in your county than your Sheriff. NONE. He can tell every alphabet soup agent to pound salt or they will be arrested and tried in State court. Watch the alphabet boys squirm when they are in State vs. Federal court!!

We take things back at the local level.

folks I think we're missing the bigger picture here.
What other purpose would it serve to get folks to go
through body scanners? ID purposes perhaps?
Are the body scanners an alternative to RFID chips.
Isn't your body scan as unique as you and your
fingerprints are??? Once you've been scanned
they keep your name on file along with your data.
We also have drones that can do retinal scans.
They can also be in airport scanning machines.
I wouldn't get anywhere near one of them if you
want to keep your privacy. Stop flying !!!
They are data mining ID info on everyone.

If people put up with this for the convenience of air travel (government counting on that) then WE THE PEOPLE are allowing by default nullification of the 4th amendment against unreasonable search and seizure. That leads to a slippery slope.

A precedent will be set allowing more and more of this in our daily lives in the name of safety

As far as the supposed $11,000 fine is concerned, first you have to be a paying ticketed passenger to even enter the security line. Basically the government is relying on the implied consent doctrine once ticket is purchased to say your 4th amendment rights are abrogated.

WHAT PART OF "INALIENABLE RIGHTS" DO THEY NOT GET!

Inalienable being, you cannot give it away, nor can others take it away.

As a ticketed passenger I would opt out of the scanner because of the ionized radiation which is considerably more dangerous than dental x-ray they like to compare to.

I would also refuse the "pat" down. At that point I know I am not flying so I would request to leave, if refused then I would ask "am I under arrest" if the answer is no then I am on my way to lawyers office to file a case of interference in my constitutional right to free travel, interference in interstate commerce to name a few off the top of my head. If the answer is yes then I can add false imprisonment and civil rights violations.

As a member of the non-flying public I can still protest this by exercising my 1st amendment rights at the public accessible areas of the airport - IMHO I think so long as you are not interrupting actual operations then one is well within their rights - so no the fine does not stop protest per say.

I don't think the DHS is doing this at this time in a vacuum - something bigger is afoot for DHS and government in general to take as much heat as they are and still stick to their guns and I don't mean an unknown or unreported terror threat (non-governmental)

Some of the things come to mind are;

1. Hasten economic downfall by ruining airline activities.

2. Get the public (sheeple) used to further draconian intrusions on their rights

3. Create a situation where limited or full martial law can be declared.

Airlines really do employ a lot of people directly and indirectly providing billions of economic activity to communities across America - take them down along with what has/is/going to occur and and you have an almost perfect storm of economic downfall - Mortgage/RMBS situation takes down too big to fail banks, tax cuts end tightening family budgets to breaking point, Hyper-inflation hits either 1Q or 3Q 2011 depending on whose opinion, 99 weeker's lose all unemployment benefits over the next year or so. Seems to be the perfect recipe for massive civil unrest (especially in cities) and possibly violent protest that I have ever contemplated - never thought in a million years I'd see this situation or the possibility in the States.

We have been stepped on and stepped over for several decades now. Witness the 10th amendment intrusions where congress has justified almost all law they do as invoking interstate commerce clause anything that you have to ask "where's it say that in the constitution" will always be in a congressional bills enabling language based on defective 1930's court interpretation that they have power to do so. Basically there is no limit to the power we have given away to these elite's. Can you say one world government coming your way shortly - thanks progressives!

Does it seem that we are lurching or at a boil point to you? are people pissed off? Ever wondered if its intentional ? Hmmmmm lets put into play enhanced security measures after mid-term elections but before holiday travel season and see if we can create a perceived rebellion, riot, security issue or other situation that requires a further crackdown in measures - possibly martial law.

I think the "why" now question is much more important than the "what" now question is at this juncture.

Phoenix

Originally posted by Intelearthling

Originally posted by Reevster
Welcome to "1984" , how much more will the sheeple put up with ?

Uh... I thought the sheeple were President Bush supporters. Last I checked, this new way of screening passengers was implemented under Obama.

Are you saying that sheeple support Obama also?

At least in the way I have always used the word, sheeple has nothing to do with political affiliation and everything to do with being dumbed down, uninformed, docile little sheep who are willing to accept anything they are told by authority, just like lambs to the slaughter. Oh there's flu, get your vaccine! Oh we have to make you safer... come get your radiation and patdown. Don't know about others' interpretation but that is pretty much mine.

Originally posted by boondock-saint
folks I think we're missing the bigger picture here.
What other purpose would it serve to get folks to go
through body scanners? ID purposes perhaps?
Are the body scanners an alternative to RFID chips.
Isn't your body scan as unique as you and your
fingerprints are??? Once you've been scanned
they keep your name on file along with your data.
We also have drones that can do retinal scans.
They can also be in airport scanning machines.
I wouldn't get anywhere near one of them if you
want to keep your privacy. Stop flying !!!
They are data mining ID info on everyone.

The purpose is simple - - control. Should we acquiesce to these draconian measures, it guarantees the measure will only get worse. I don't disagree nor discount what you say regarding the use of these machines as tools for profiling but see that as the secondary goal. In my mind, the primary goal is to cow people to the point that they do as they're "told" and just pass through to keep the peace.

To that, I say BULL$IT!!! I remember years ago taking my daughter to Disney and they expected a thumbscan to enter the park. I refused and indicated that it wasn't going to happen. I heard the badged thugs him and haw and I was let in since I was a paying customer. Note the key to what I stated....I was a PAYING customer.

If we wish to shut these bastards down, we have to cut their funding.

If there is one adage that will ring true throughout all time, it's simply: follow the money.

My 2 cents.

www.youtube.com...

I wonder, would they arrest a child that refused their molesta..... whoops, strip search

These people have no shame, nor honor. I have given up hope for our country.

reply to post by Tinman67


un- freaking-believable!! They strip searched a kid! What the hell is wrong with these people? I jsut cannot believe what this has come to.

Oh, It gets better, believe you me. How about people with medical issues? A continuing assault against them.

Really, Really disgusting.

www.msnbc.msn.com...

Like I've been saying ever since this story broke, Americans gave up their right to protest airport scanners when they didn't protest GWB's signing of the Patriot Act.

They let GWB sign away more of their Constitutional rights than all other Presidents before him combined with this one act, and didn't even send one protestor into the street.

Then they thanked him for giving them security by relecting him in 2004.

"Those who give up liberty for security deserve neither" - Benjamin Franklin.

See, those founding fathers knew a thing or two. Now it's nine years later, and too late to protest this law.

Of course, TPTB are now suggesting that airport security be given to private contractors. You know who will probably be the private contractors? Blackwater and Haliburton.

You folks really need to pay attention as to what your politicians are up to when they pass laws in a hurry.

reply to post by Tinman67


OH! I am just APPALED!! How is this allowed to take place? there is another story where a woman who survived breat cancer was made to take out her prosthetic breast! I have to ask...... REALLY!? And as a mother the one with the kid being strip searched made my blood boil. who exactly are they protecting by doing this? These employees are on a serious power trip.

There's a story on Newsweek's site now about how the patdowns could be detrimental to rape and sexual abuse victims. I had been wondering when this issue was going to be addressed, and I'm glad to see that at least one news organization has run with a story about it.

Newsweek article

Local law enforcement is the key to this. Just because a person refuse a search by a SECURITY GUARD not a LEO, is not a crime. How exactly are they going to detain a person against there will for refusing a check by a security guard? The TSA obviously has there heads in a dark hole. I just don't see how an illegal detainment, and this civil fine would hold up in court.

Because TPTB will rig it so that it will hold up in court just like they do with every other agenda that want to implemented.

I wonder if obama and his family have to get intimate with uniformed strangers when they travel... they do travel a bit no?

Or is air force 1 or whatever his mob use, exempt?

reply to post by wisintel


It all sucks, doesn't it? YEAH! So what to do? For me, it's easy. I won't fly. I have business things around the world. I don't have to be there in person. It's a great thing about computers and the internet. You can conduct business, face to face, without even leaving your office, or home, Cool stuff!

Stop traveling via air!

Crush the air travel industry! They will work it all out.

Okay, I can visit my sister in Oklahoma by flying on a plane. Oh, boy! After about three days, we are sick of each other. lol Okay, I drive there. Takes me two days of leisurely driving. End result? I took 7 days, traveled 4 days and got my three day visit. Any more than 3 days would have been a waste! So I got some cool times driving. No pat downs or intrusive xray bullcrap.

Boycott the airlines! Not that they are the bad guys! But put the pressure on them, and they are stronger than the individual!

Originally posted by fixer1967
The air lines them selfs will put a stop to the TSA mess when they start to lose enough money over this. I see a lot more travel by car and bus. Hey, a bus company could do an ad on this. "Come ride with us. No scanners or pat downs. Your junk is safe when you take the bus"

That's exactly what I've been thinking. My mother is a former flight attendant and she is actually buying that these things are necessary to keep us all safe. She's actually said "it's not our RIGHT to fly, it's our privilege!" She defends the pat downs too (don't even get me started...although she hasn't been subjected to either yet, so we'll see how she feels about it after she is subjected to it). It kills me...I think I can do without this "privilege" right now, along with a LOT of other Americans. She is so intelligent in many ways, but she is totally brainwashed by this.

There is no such thing as a "right" in America. A "right", by definition, can not be taken away. The government can, and will, remove every single one of our so-called rights whenever they want. We are granted "privileges" at birth; just don't piss-off Uncle Sam (or a corporation), and you may be allowed to keep those privileges throughout your life.

reply to post by DragonTattooz


Thats called liberties, while people are conned into thinking they are free. Liberty does not mean freedom like you wrote above.