Massive European Pyramids Discovered

I have discussed this on other threads, but nice to see the topic come back to life.

Everything I have read makes this sound very legitimate.

Like numerous other archeological sites that mainstream media ignores, this is jus more proof that there is a lot being hidden about ancient history.

reply to post by Irnadupont
Thanks for posting the very informative links.

Thankfully the contents of the letters are explained in English since I can't read the original letters.

The last update of this page irna.lautre.net... was May 2007, I wonder what has happened since in this regard?

Originally posted by Arbitrageur
Not nameless:

Amar Karapus, a curator at the National Museum of Bosnia and Herzegovina in Sarajevo, said "When I first read about the pyramids I thought it was a very funny joke. I just couldn't believe that anyone in the world could believe this."(Source-Colin Woodard, December 2009, "The Pyramid Man", Smithsonian 40:9)

www.theregister.co.uk...

Brilliant conclusion.... No need to investigate further when you allready believe that everything science hasn't allready proved to be "a very funny joke".

This proves nothing!

History's brightest minds and inventors are not allways those with a PhD og Professor connected to their names...

reply to post by Lunica

A star for that sir! Do you have any links to go with that? That goes right along with a few things I've been looking into lately. Including the aforementioned Bosnian pyramids.

We must remember that the same people who call the Bosnian pyramids a joke, also said the same thing about Yonaguni, Troy, and some other great archaeological finds. (Although I think Yonaguni still has some skeptics). And to say that all digs should only be done by peer reviewed academics, and institutions for some kind of greater good is laughable at best. If it were up to the "academics", and "great institutions" such as the Smithsonian, our (the public) knowledge of history would be whatever they say it is. No Questions Asked! They would prefer to keep us in perpetual darkness about anything that doesn't fit their religious convictions. I have said this before, and I'll say it again. The whole "peer reviewed" academic institution, are nothing but a bunch of grifter's and con artists, with the exception of a few maybe.

I've said this so many times and Klassified you are wandering extremely close to off-topic territory (I will dissect this later). I have presented a very well cited case and have been refuted by Mrs. Osmanagic to the best of her ability in the previous few pages. However, not a single one of you "doubters" calling my opinions a "joke" or works of a "disinformant" have provided any information. If you noted what I said then you will realize that I wold accept ANY evidence outside of the Osmanagic foundation (STILL WAITING ON THIS). I understand that professors such as Ezra Zubrow (SUNY Buffalo) support this project, but they haven't written anything since 2006 in its support. I just want you all to remember that an article may not be peer-reviewed in order to be submitted as evidence. However, it must be substantiated by someone with authority and by someone outside the Osmanagic foundation other than itself. Why? Because anyone can say anything they believe, confirmation is the essence of truth!

Now as for your criticism of the field of science in general in relation to to this topic Klassified...

Originally posted by Klassified
We must remember that the same people who call the Bosnian pyramids a joke, also said the same thing about Yonaguni, Troy, and some other great archaeological finds. (Although I think Yonaguni still has some skeptics). And to say that all digs should only be done by peer reviewed academics, and institutions for some kind of greater good is laughable at best. If it were up to the "academics", and "great institutions" such as the Smithsonian, our (the public) knowledge of history would be whatever they say it is. No Questions Asked! They would prefer to keep us in perpetual darkness about anything that doesn't fit their religious convictions. I have said this before, and I'll say it again. The whole "peer reviewed" academic institution, are nothing but a bunch of grifter's and con artists, with the exception of a few maybe.

You're obviously not a scientist and have never picked up on how the scientific process actually works. I hoped you had noted that even Mrs. Osmanagic did not challenge this aspect of what I've stated. I think most of your comments are unsubstantiated and reveal little thought which has been masked by emotion.

We must remember that the same people who call the Bosnian pyramids a joke, also said the same thing about Yonaguni, Troy, and some other great archaeological finds.

Really? I don't think this to be the case at all. In fact, you have not even sourced this statement and have thrown it out there as if it were true. Sure, Yonaguni is debatable and likewise should have its own thread. The debate over Troy was actually quite minimal and has blown out of proportion to meet some ludicrous and unsubstantiated remarks about governmental control over knowledge.

And to say that all digs should only be done by peer reviewed academics, and institutions for some kind of greater good is laughable at best. If it were up to the "academics", and "great institutions" such as the Smithsonian, our (the public) knowledge of history would be whatever they say it is.

You have got to be kidding me. Do you understand the concept that the Smithsonian is not a research institution but a museum? Do you comprehend that scientists are people too and often, but not always, HAVE NO CONNECTION TO THE GOVERNMENT AND NO MEANS TO GAIN PROFIT FROM THEIR PROJECT. This means that their incentive to lie would have to be driven by something other than money and power. If this is how you feel then have at it, but I think these two items are the primary factors of "keeping many in the dark."

There are corrupt individuals in the world, but I don't believe that the critics of THIS project are those people. I do not trust NASA for example, but I do trust those scientific communities whose opinion is not an expression of a political power (NIH for example).

Oh yea and finally:

The whole "peer reviewed" academic institution, are nothing but a bunch of grifter's and con artists, with the exception of a few maybe.

The next time you or one of your relatives are on a hospital bed you will greatly regret this statement. As these "con-artists" share their information with the rest of the fields of science (including medicine) to help the greater public. FIGHT THE GOVERNMENT AND NOT THE SCIENTISTS!

Originally posted by Klassified
We must remember that the same people who call the Bosnian pyramids a joke, also said the same thing about Yonaguni, Troy, and some other great archaeological finds.

Troy was quite different:

www.usu.edu...&civ/chapters/04troy.htm

Almost upon first digging into it, it was clear that the site he was uncovering had been an important city in antiquity. For one, this mound had many levels which meant the city had been rebuilt several times but, more important to Schliemann, it had large walls just as Homer describes those around Troy.

So there may have been debates about whether it was really Troy or not and whether it meant Homer's tales were true, but nobody was claiming it was a naturally occurring formation as is the case with the topic of this thread.

reply to post by TheChemist1

As for being close to off topic. That might be, I'll let the Mod decide. But I think it is relevant to the issue at hand.

As for being emotional. You mistake conviction for emotion.

As to whether I am a scientist. You are right that I am not the kind of scientist you are thinking of. But I do know how the process works. More than I'm allowed to tell you.

The two finds I mentioned were examples off the top of my head. And I've read extensively on these, and more.

Do you understand the origins of the Smithsonian? They are federal. And they are an institution first and foremost. Historically, they have had their fingers in much. IMO, they are gatekeepers.

Yes. "Scientists" are people. It's amazing what you can learn from some of them off the record.

My last statement might have been a bit rough. But I did leave room for those who have good intention.

The hospital thing is something for another time.

My biggest beef with this whole thread is the bashing of these people who believe in what they're doing so much, they're willing to invest their own money to find enough evidence to present to the "academics" and the public. And then being told by you they aren't qualified to find that evidence, because they will just ruin artifacts and destroy the site.
It's way too easy to take this stance. Because it allows the TPTB to dictate what gets discovered or covered. What gets funding, and what doesn't. That's quite convenient. So yes, the academia, as a whole, are quite controlled in what they write, say, or do. And many are part of that government you are trying to fight.

reply to post by TheChemist1


Aren't all scientists linked to government due to funding so if you didn't want to go with the norm they pull your funding. Also if you go against the grain of the rest of the scientific community you are called a crack pot so there is always something there in some way driving which direction you take. Imagine if Tesla just decided to keep working for Edison hoping to get his money where would we be?

Sorry if off topic but it is slightly revelent to a statement he made.

reply to post by Essan


so did the hill look like an outline of a pyramid? or did it look like most of us see hills in most areas rounded! Thanks for replying though and as i was replying to the fact he said tectonic plate movement and we know what happens when that occurs.

reply to post by Klassified

My biggest beef with this whole thread is the bashing of these people who believe in what they're doing so much, they're willing to invest their own money to find enough evidence to present to the "academics" and the public. And then being told by you they aren't qualified to find that evidence, because they will just ruin artifacts and destroy the site.
It's way too easy to take this stance. Because it allows the TPTB to dictate what gets discovered or covered. What gets funding, and what doesn't. That's quite convenient. So yes, the academia, as a whole, are quite controlled in what they write, say, or do. And many are part of that government you are trying to fight.

First and most importantly I owe you an apology for bashing your comment. I am a hypocrite in the sense that I let my own emotion override my rationale in a vain attempt to tear your post apart. Your thoughts are noble and my assumptions were unwarranted. My frustration was not aimed at you, it was aimed towards the denial of the vast amount of evidence I have supplied to the contrary of what the believers have stated. The Mod described the situation wonderfully when he stated that I should attack the ball, not the player .

We can agree to disagree on the fact that the vast amounts of academics are quite controlled in what they say, write, or do. I believe there is limited control in the scientific field and I believe you're integrating the industrial side of academics with the academia side of academics. Academia performs research for the sake of research itself. Industrially funded projects are usually aimed at proving a company is right so that they can profit off of a novel process. In this sense you are right, there is a controlled objective for which they are searching, quite similar to Dr. Osmanagic. I have issues with the industrial side of science due to government intervention and thus have strayed away from that side of my academic field.

Let there be no mistake, personally funded projects are often legitimate and sometimes a source of true knowledge which inspires the rest of the field. In this instance of the Bosnian pyramids, however, I am frustrated with the fact that five years of research have been going on and most of the findings are highly suspect or even deemed as forgeries by peers. I have asked repeatedly for someone to reference an outside source and have yet to receive one. Could somebody look into what Dr. Ezra Rubow has to say since 2006 after the Bosnian minister of culture cut its source of funding? I understand that not everyone knows everything, but if we cannot trust academics who perform research for research's sake, then who can we trust? I firmly that Dr. Osmanagic has every right to continue digging, as long as he follows the protocol set forth by the Bosnian government itself to avoid the damaging of other significant historical facts. Your point is well taken and I hope my apology will suffice. I feel that I have very little left to say other than what I have written many many words about on previous pages.

Regards,
Star on your comment,
Matthew

reply to post by vkturbo


I agree with your evaluation of the hill in that the outline does in fact look like a pyramid. THIS IS ACTUALLY THE REASON WHY I BECAME INTERESTED IN THIS THREAD! However, if you look back at my previous posts I have discussed the fact that terra-forming similar to this is found in many parts of the world which are not pyramids. I think the final conclusion is that this occured due to the fact the mountain used to be the beach of a prehistoric lake which dried up all the while tectonic plate shifts leveled certain areas to give the appearance of a symmetrical hill. However, the hill bears little or no resemblance to an actual pyramid structure and I know for a fact both of these previous points were discussed in one of my previous posts earlier in the thread. I think Essan probably cited a few of these sites as well that are similar, but are also not pyramids. I am not denying your observation, i'm just reiterating the cliche that looks may be deceiving and I feel that even Dr. Osmanagic (at no fault of his own) has been deceived. It is his incentive to deny this claim and it is mine to uphold it. The choice is yours, I am simply here to provide information to the contrary in hopes that you will read it and come to a well-informed decision instead of one based off of appearances. After all, they always said the world was flat...but we know better now don't we?

Regards,
Matthew

reply to post by TheChemist1

No apology needed or necessary. Those who come to this site, looking only for people who are like minded are missing out on the true spirit of debate, and the great strides in knowledge and understanding that come from challenging and stretching ones core beliefs and convictions. It is my sincere hope that this tradition remains here at ATS. Silencing opposition, and owning both sides of an issue(The dialectic) is what TPTB do. And nothing good ever comes of it. The Mods advice is good advice for the whole site.

Although I am admittedly cynical of the mainstream ologists when it comes to this, and other possible finds that are scoffed at before a thorough and objective investigation. Nevertheless, you made some good points, that I believe should have been addressed in return by the folks now funding this project. I do hope their intentions are as noble as they seem to be.

I should have mentioned this in my previous post, but got in a hurry. I do tip my hat to those in the public sector of science who have been ignored or squelched by TPTB because their facts just didn't line up with what the public is supposed to perceive as truth.

I will be looking into Dr. Ezra Rubow comments and thoughts on this issue, as well as others. Just have had too many research projects going at once here lately.

I sincerely enjoy reading the research and comments from both sides of the many issues that are discussed here at ATS. It would have been much less intriguing and educational if both sides had not weighed in on this issue as well.

To the Mod: I realize this particular debate may have been borderline, but I believe it was still integral to the thread in it's essence. Thanks for your patience.

Originally posted by Klassified
reply to post by TheChemist1

 

Those who come to this site, looking only for people who are like minded are missing out on the true spirit of debate, and the great strides in knowledge and understanding that come from challenging and stretching ones core beliefs and convictions.

The only thing worse than such people is one who supplies endless/useless dialog.

reply to post by UnitedSatesofFreemasons


I would encourage those of you who are interested in the possibility of an ancient trans-Atlantic civilization (Atlantis or whatnot) to read my thread about a missing key in Human evolution located here: www.abovetopsecret.com...

This is fascinating stuff, and we live in truly an amazing time. Just think, 10 years ago we wouldn't even be here discussing this on the interweb.

Namaste

reply to post by TheChemist1


I do seem to remember a part of Mr. Osmanagich story where he said they scanned the whole country by sattellite looking for elevations that were alligned to the cardinal points and what they came up with was this valley. How's that for coincidence, statistically this shouldn't happen...

reply to post by etcorngods

Good point, I suppose. I do try not to fall into this category. But sometimes a little drivel creeps in on all of us. To keep from getting a warning for being off topic any further, though. Has anyone decided to take these folks up on their offer to go to Bosnia, and see it all for themselves? I would love to go, but it's just not feasible right now.

The last update of this page irna.lautre.net... was May 2007, I wonder what has happened since in this regard?

Regarding the excavations permits, Mr. Osmanagic could not obtain them for the Visocica Hill (the so-called Pyramid of the Sun) which is protected as National Monument (it bears the fortress and town of Visoki, Bosnia's capital town during the Middle-Ages). But as Bosnia and Herzegovina has a very complicated system since the Dayton Accords, with multiple levels of decision (national, federal, cantonal, local...), he could obtain permits from the cantonal government for the sites that are not protected, and he is now excavating mostly in two places, the "Ravne tunnel" and the Pljesevica Hill ("pyramid of the Moon").

I think it is about the same for the fundings: no funding from the federal government, but a lot of them from the cantonal government (Visoko-Doboj canton) and the municipality of Visoko. But it is difficult to be sure, because Mr. Osmanagic's Foundation has never published any real financial report.

Cordially, Irna