Massive European Pyramids Discovered

Originally posted by OptimistPrimeWill any of you offer him a written apology if it is finally proven it is a pyramid?

I'm very happy if it turns out to be a pyramid. I like the idea of perceptions being challenged. I also have no real comment to make about the man leading the dig.

My only quibble here is with the poster pushing out erroneous information. If you say that you're going to post proof of a statement, then post proper proof. His claim to prove the pyramids full of ancient wisdom in Hungarian runes has so far amounted to a runic stone written in a different script, using a different language from a different location, and some passing shots of rough inscriptions in a video. Fine, the video could be useful, but when he mentions that it is written in a language and script that is still in modern use, surely you have to accept that there is a risk of them being modern inscriptions? That doesn't lead me to doubt that they are pyramids, but it certainly leads me to doubt that his arguments aren't bogged down in confirmation bias.

What would be useful, however, is to (i) identify inscriptions from the location, including a clear drawing of what you propose they are and a reference to the point in the video they appear (or whatever other source is being used) and (ii) offer a proposed translation. That would be genuinely useful, interesting and a great use of the unique language resources the poster can bring to the thread. It would also do wonders for his credibility.

People Really?
READ BEFORE YOU POST.

How many times must we go over this? How many of you actually read the threads before slapping a reply up? You all preach "denying ignorance" and "keeping an open mind", yet you don't read up on the subject you're discussing. In order to reach the truth and assure that your mind is both open and critical you must review the facts.

The truth of the matter is that the project is dead. They have been digging since 2006 and funding to the project has been cut as it has yet to produce legitimized results (they've been digging for 4 years). Page 5 discusses other credibility issues and general problems with the initial claim and I believe StormDancer reevaluates the facts on Pages (8 and 9). Also, pyramids being built in Europe in 12000 BC are a physical impossibility as it was covered with glaciers during the last ice age. I've been penalized for off-topic posts as should you all for including finds in other countries which are unrelated to this case. I DO NOT DENY THESE OTHER FINDS....SIMPLY THIS CASE AS IT STANDS ON ITS OWN. You criticize the numerous "personal attacks" without taking into account the hard work some of us actually put in to research this subject only to be slandered as others as disinformants! Dr. Osmanagic is a fraud with no credentials. If you want to discuss other archaeological finds then lets go ahead and do that in another post. This is about the "Bosnian pyramids" which WERE (past tense) fraudulent propaganda put forth by the bosnian government in order to gain international attention. However, this backfired when the Bosnian populace in general realized Osmanagic's claims were false and forced the government to cut funding. IT'S OVER...THESE ARE NOT PYRAMIDS...IF OSMANAGIC IS STILL DIGGING IT IS THROUGH PRIVATE FUNDS. EVEN THE BOSNIAN GOVERNMENT REFUSES TO SUPPORT HIM NOW. Please keep your minds open...but more importantly keep them keen! Please...I beg of you all to do this!

reply to post by TheChemist1


Just out of sheer curiosity "Can you supply some links that absolutely and irrefutably debunk the archeologist and this "Supposed" to find?" If this is true, then we are being railroaded hard.
I want to believe in such thing's, and I am finding it harder and harder to give credit where credit is due, do too these poser's that keep knocking us down the "Progressive scales".
Appreciate your insight, but need validations for your claim. Thanks! Allred5923

here is a better video more info and shows a comparison from a pyramid before it was found in mexico think the main scholars don't want their years of study go to waste

www.youtube.com...

reply to post by TheChemist1


Chemist1,
I can see that you are pretty involved in this subject but you are having false information. So, for a start, my name is Sabina Osmanagich and I am web editor of the www.piramidasunca.ba, official web site of the investigation of Bosnian pyramids. I gave you my name because I do not like people who are hiding behind false name. Please, have in mind that English is not my first language but I hope that you will understand everything what I want to say.

First of all, the project DID NOT STOP. Our team is conducting the investigation on several sites. So, you are wrong. All news about this you can find on our web site. Second, the BiH Goverment is supporting this, as you can see from our web site. This is a huge project and during five years we had around 100 experts on field. Most of them (they have names like prof. Nabil Swelim, prof. Ezra Zubrow, Paul van Ward, prof. Slobodan Mizdrak, prof. Aly Barakat) said that what we have in Bosnia are man made constructions in the shape of pyramids. Of course, this project is so huge and so important that you must have those who disagree whit us. And that is fine. Our project is open for everybody and we invite people and experts to come and join us in work. Those who are claiming that this is hoax, mostly never visited Visoko and the sites.

Now, dr. Osmanagich is an expert in pyramids. He wrote ten books about them and visited and investigated almost all the pyramids in the world: Mexico, Peru, Belize, Mauritius, Canarian Island, China, Egypt.... His Phd is in Mayan civilisation and he is the youngest member of Russian Academy of Natural Science and a member of Alexandrian Archaelogical Society.

In 2008. we held the First International Scientific Conference about Bosnian pyramids. During seven days we had 55 different experts on field. The conclusions is:Bosnian Valley of the pyramids is very important archaelogical site which has to be investigate. You see, they did not said geological or natural but archaelogical site.

Of course, this project is huge and so far we are just in the begining. But still, there is a lot to see here. Those who claim that there is nothing in Visoko should come and show us why they think so. Calling people names is not evidence for hoax. So, Chemist1, you are welcome to Visoko. We will provide you bed and breakfest, and you can join us in the International Summer Camp that we will orginize from June till September 2011. Come and work with our experts, with various experts and volonteers from all around the world and show us that these are not pyramids. We will show you all our findings, laboratory results, artifacts and so on. Our work in Visoko remains open for everybody because only this way we can find out who, when, how and why these beautiful structures where built all around the world. For beggining, listen for this radio show:

www.blogtalkradio.com...

All the best

Sabina Osmanagich

reply to post by Osmanagich


Glad to see you here, Miss osmanagich.

Good work! We hope for the best discovery.

When ready, please give us some more informations about the new excavations!

reply to post by OptimistPrime


OptimistPrime,

When we started this project, 2006., whole bosnian scientific establishment were against it. Why? These pyramids were in front of them for years and they did not notice that. We started with hypothesis: there are five pyramidal shape constractions with four sides oriented toward the cardinal points. One of the profesors in University of Sarajevo said that "he will burn his self on the top of the pyramid of the Sun if we prove that it is a pyramid". How about this scientific approach?

Until then, everywhere where we dig we are founding concrete blocs, paved terraces, underground tunnels, artifacts... And, since the petition to UNESCO (2006) where they were asking determination of this project, all of these scientist are remaining silence. What an irony, we are not afraid of our research, we invited UNESCO to come and see what we have in Visoko, but bosnian "experts" stoped UNESCO team to come claiming that there is nothing there. We are proving that history has to be changed and mainstream scientist are afraid of that. Imagine, all PHDs that they earned has to be dropped.

They were accusing us that we are destroying cultural heritage of Visoko (on the top of the Pyramid of the Sun there is small construction "town of Visoki"). Finnaly those who were against the project, formed small team to find out is that true. Of course, we were digging 300 meters away from the Town of Visoki and they knew it. They never said thet they are sorry for being wrong.

But we will continue. The project is run by nonprofit, non-political Foundation and we are the masters of our destiny. Project is opened and our web page provides all information about this daily! No other project in the world has that kind of comfort. We have nothing to hide. Quite opposite, we are very proud to be a part of the team which will change history.

Regarding the claims about age of pyramids, well, so far we have some numbers, 12.000-15.000 years old is a fact provided by experts in soil field and they claim that soil which is on top of the Pyramid of the Moon is 12.000-15.000 old. Another number is 35.000 - the age of the small part of wood found in the underground complexs. This result came from carbondating laboratory in Gliwice (Poland) and Kiel (Germany). You have this on our web page as well.

Why is it so hard to belive that Earth is living in cycles. During ice age, 20.000 + years ago, Bosnia never was under ice. The temperature was only 5 deegres lower that todays.You can check this by reading the new scientific facts regarding DNA testings. The oldest people are Basks (Spain) around 40.000 old, after them you have people from Balkan region (35.000 years). That is how we can explain beautiful paintings in Spain (Altamira) which are 38.000 years old.

Well, thank you for being Optimist, and of course, you are also welcome to Visoko, Bosnia.

Sabina Osmanagich

reply to post by Arken


Hi, Arken,

thanks for welcome note. Well, for the start, here is invitation for Summer Camp in Visoko
www.piramidasunca.ba...

You are welcome to join us. Bosnia is very small but beautiful and proud country

reply to post by vkturbo


Here is a poster of the Bosnian Valley of the Pyramids on our official web site: www.piramidasunca.ba...

reply to post by TheChemist1


So these are fake but the ones in China aren't and are basically of the same description think someone had better learn who started off saying these were fake was Dr. Zahi Hawass he doesn't think these have any merit and being considered an apparent expert in the field who are people going to side with. Most people go with the expert and ignore anything knew until someone does the hard yards and get all the facts. How many archeologists don't like to start new theories due to the fact if they don't keep the same theories as others they will be ridiculed and basically made out to be a crack pot. This has already happened once who's to say it hasn't again.

Originally posted by kassych
wow, that is a great find. Does that then rule out the Egyptians as the pyramid builders? That does then seem to say that there was a different way of life and culture back then in Europe.

Well, the Egyptians as we know them made the 1000's of hieroglyphs as we know them, and in the history books we have been told, it are those Egyptians who build the pyramids.

BUT

When we find these NON hieroglyph like drawings in the Granite inside the Queenschamber of the Cheops pyramide...

hmmz Who made them??? Not the "hieroglyph making" EgyptIans as we know... I would say

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/d2b5ce9b57be.jpg[/atsimg]

reply to post by Allred5923


Allred,

I greatly appreciate your skepticism and will more than happily supply a link weighing evidence about the finds at the pyramid.

Here you go:

thehallofmaat.com...

I think this was also posted by StormDancer somewhere on page 8 or 9. Sorry, it took so long to respond. If you want an academic journal then it may take me a little longer to do some digging!

reply to post by vkturbo


Once again another valid response! However, the pyramids in China have not been met with the same level of skepticism as have those in Bosnia. I will make sure to gather some cited articles garnering support for their excavation if you wish. Just because one is like the other, does not mean they are the same!

reply to post by Osmanagich

Welcome and thank you all the information, Sabina. I hope you're going to reveal all the secrets of your pyramid.

Regards,

Sentinel

reply to post by TheChemist1

May I ask why do you link the very same site over and over again, when Ms. Osmanagich already proven here you're wrong? Why do you do this TheChemist? Who is paying you to spread misinformation? By the way I hope you know that defaming someone by intention but without any true background is a crime.

reply to post by TheChemist1


Chemist1,

I do not have enough time to go over and comment whole site that you provided but what I van do is answer all of your questions. Regarding the tunnels being "mining area" you should know that material in underground tunnel under the Bosnian Valley of the pyramids is conglomerat and has no mining value. We done analyses and there is no gold, silver or any other valuable element inside.

The tunnels were checked by the miner experts and they said that these tunnels could not be mining facility.

www.piramidasunca.ba...

reply to post by Osmanagich


For others...review PAGE 5 of this thread to understand what Mrs. Osmanagic is getting at in her response to me. Now we shall continue the debate...

Ah, yes finally what I've been waiting for...the source itself (or as least as close as I can get to it). Mrs. Osmanagic it is with the greatest respect that I will attempt to criticize you and hope to not be met with the same slander as I was previously. My sources are academics in the field and I believe your refutation needs to be along those lines and not in your honest opinion. Do not criticize my sources unless you have some counter-evidence supplied by an academic institution not affiliated with your own. I will admit being slightly wrong about your husband's thesis topic but I am no doubt correct about the FIELD in which he received his doctorate (SOCIOLOGY and not ANTHROPOLOGY). For this misstep I apologize and hope you can note the point I was trying to make in relation to this. The topic of his thesis was not my issue, it was the field in which it was awarded. I.E. It was not in anthropology, the field under which most archaeologists garner their degree.

Scientific projects frequently gain support from the outside community through grants and peer review. This is how they usually acquire their funding (at least in non-profit cases). If you're citing yourselves only then this is inappropriate and an unworthy defense Ad-Hoc. Let me reiterate, you need to give me a source in conjunction with your statements, not your opinion.

I guess first we can start off with comments about the last glacial maximum. It appears that I do stand corrected on the issue of temperature and glacial covering in your region of Europe. Perhaps I was too hasty in my analysis of the situation. Here's the facts:

SOURCE(S): www.esd.ornl.gov...
www.esd.ornl.gov...

In southern Europe, across most of the Mediterranean zone, temperatures were perhaps 8-10 degrees lower than at present in both summer and winter (Frenzel 1992 a,b). It is interesting to note, however, that frost was not severe enough to wipe out relict populations of the endemic Mediterranean date palm, Phoenix theophrasti, from the warmest parts of Crete and the SE Aegean (Rackham, in press)

Lake level evidence from southern Europe (Harrison et al. 1996) gives the paradoxical picture of moister-than-present or only slightly drier conditions during the LGM and late glacial; the wider evidence (e.g. palaeobotanical evidence, slope wash sediments) shows that in fact the 'ecological' aridity (experienced by plants) was actually much more severe than today. This contradiction within the evidence may relate to the patterns of rainfall; for example very few sudden storms, concentrated in winter when the plants were not growing (Prentice et al. 1992), or (very speculatively) the drought-effects of lower CO2 on vegetation despite high overall rainfall. Lake levels suggest that in fact the most arid phase of all was reached around 15,000 14C y.a, shortly before the intial interglacial warming occurred.

So, I stand corrected on the inhabitability of the region but still make great strides in my logic (academic source posted after this paragraph to support my next claims). I understand that you all are trying to rewrite history and that simply restating it is not disproving your mission. However, I must use this as evidence against the building of pyramids during your supposed time period. I understand that the paper I submit covers the Middle Paleolithic period (300,000 BC - 30,000 BC), but is relevant in that it sets up the events to come in the Upper Paleolithic Era (the exact time frame you described 50,000 BC - 10,000 BC roughly).

SOURCE: www-personal.umich.edu...

This paper describes the beginning of the formation of stone tools and essence of language as we know it today. We're actually talking about AFTER this time period when we were at the point of time when neanderthals had just gone extinct and modern Homo Sapiens had just began to fluorish (Upper Paleolithic Era). We were still struggling to survive and had not yet even established well-known agricultural feats which enabled us to farm at the time these supposed pyramids were built (Well-known fact...look up Upper Paleolithic Era on any search engine if you do not believe me). I find it difficult to ration with the construction of gigantic megastructures before we could even manage to feed ourselves efficiently as a species. WE ARE TALKING PREHISTORY HERE. Like I said, you're trying to rewrite history, so these "facts" may be debunked and do not necessarily serve as proof counter to your point. This is of course given that these hills in Bosnia are actually pyramids. I am simply stating well-known facts as the world has them written.

SOURCE: www.actionbioscience.org...

Homo Sapiens of the Upper Paleolithic/Late Stone Age was quintessentially modern in appearance and behavior. Precisely how this transformation occurred is not well understood, but it apparently was restricted to Homo sapiens and did not occur in Neanderthals.

and...

In the Upper Paleolithic of Eurasia, or the Late Stone Age as it is called in Africa, the archaeological signature stands in strong contrast to that of the Middle Paleolithic/Middle Stone Age. It was characterized by significant innovation:

-a remarkable diversity in stone tool types

-tool types showed significant change over time and space

-artifacts were regularly fashioned out of bone, antler and ivory, in addition to stone

-stone artifacts were made primarily on blades and were easily classified into discrete categories, presumably reflecting specialized use

-burials were accompanied by ritual or ceremony and contained a rich diversity of grave goods

-living structures and well-designed fireplaces were constructed

-hunting of dangerous animal species and fishing occurred regularly higher population densities

-abundant and elaborate art as well as items of personal adornment were widespread

-raw materials such as flint and shells were traded over some distances

However, I guess these facts would be moot if it were to be proved by your group that a pyramid was, in fact, built in Bosnia. I simply state these facts so that people understand the gravity of the claims which your husband is making . He is accelerating the evolution of mankind thousands of years by assuming these pyramids were built at the infancy of our species. I have already established facts why I do not agree with your husband's pursuit of this excavation thoroughly on PAGE 5 of this thread. These reasons include lack of qualification, lack of evidence, and destruction of buried artifacts located within the mountain.

Most importantly though, I would like to discuss your funding. Who is funding your project?

SOURCE: dalje.com...

Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun Loses Funding

The Ministry of Culture of the Federation of Bosnia and Herzegovina wants to put an end to the funding of the project “Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun.”

and…

However, Culture Minister Gavrilo Grahovac decided to shut down the source of funding ... because this was not a serious archaeological research [project] . The credibility of the people who collaborated on the project was “unreliable” and they have published their findings that were kept away from the experts.
The scientific research team has proved that the hill Visocica is a natural geological formation and its relief is the consequence of natural tectonic movement.

Please refute the claims in bold with clear citation of findings and academic support of your claim (any fashion of support will do).

You go on to simply state that you are funded and I understand your sources may be confidential. However, you must understand that any single person can fund any project and that personal funding does not constitute institutionalized research. Privatized research is for individual gain and not the greater good of the scientific community as is most institutionalized research. This is because institutionalized research is almost always done for a non-profit goal (hence-the backing of an already profiting institution). Institutionalized funding allows for grant distribution from the scientific community through scientific review!

I see a great lack of results that are equally questionable in their integrity (source below).

SOURCE: thehallofmaat.com...

I am sorry if you are offended by this, but a wealthy source of information has lead me to this conclusion, not my emotions. Again, You need to give a publication or citation regarding finds that is not self-reported and self-published, for this is not an AUTHENTIC CLAIM. It has gone through no peer review system and is no more substantiated than me claiming that the Earth is flat simply because I deem it to be so. True information is gained through many people evaluating a source and coming to a conclusion, and not by one person evaluating a source and submitting a conclusion before having others also evaluate the evidence. That's how a court of law works isn't it? Questions of authenticity are reviewed by peers to come to a common conclusion known as the truth. Isn't that how science should work as well in order to be fair and justified? Please give me your thoughts and take your time analyzing this post. I understand it is quite lengthy, but feel it necessary to adequately explain my point of view without causing personal offense.

Regards,

-Matthew S.

reply to post by Sentinel412


I substantially cited myself and formatted an argument that the pyramids are naturally occurring remnants of tectonic plate shifts as described by the primary funder of the project . These pyramids have a lot of evidence weighed in against them and I feel the situation for a legitimate defense is being suspended by off-topic misdirection. Never has the veracity that actual work is being conducted been called into question (I've seen your videos and clearly understand that excavation is still continuing there). I only question the support of the self-purported "scientific" discovery. I submitted my information formally without malintent, and hopefully we can continue along the lines of civil discussion. I wish you the best of luck in getting the substantiated information I submitted removed. This post was submitted in hopes of eliciting legitimate evidence for the definition of these mounds as pyramids and not an emotional outburst from the community. You need to support my questions and not deny them so that your truth will come out in the form of knowledge and not hate!

Thankyou,

-Matthew S.

reply to post by TheChemist1

Actually you questioned everything and I hope the moderators are going back and read all your posts, which is proving that you're lying by intention. You're not making any sort of research here. You're intending to discredit everyone who is involved in this project. You're questioning everyone who is there, who is working there and who is made this discovery. Why? Because you're a damned disinfo agent who is lying since the very beginning to stop people to see the truth. You're a liar, mister and I hate liars (Moderators: just read back. He is doing this since the beginning.).

You also tried to discredit me since the very beginning. And why? Because I presented some information that this pyramid and the excavation is real.