What is a sin? Who decides?

reply to post by halfoldman


I would not have had the confidence to speak on religious matters after just discovering it, or dabbling, which was for me seeing the difference over the years between a large collection of information, and an actual working religion. The thing that was missing, and which at first a strong aversion, was my own involvement! I can understand the paranoia, and suspicions, you describe in those Christians because I once felt that way too. Experience with pushes past barriers of understanding, or propels you beyond them fortunately, as does suspending passion for an objective oversight. I would say I've become a stoic, and a naturalist philosopher, and found that this in no way compromises with my Christian beliefs, rather it works in harmony with them. Ralph Emerson there, for example, was a staunch Christian and a naturalist philosopher - one of the best I've followed!

God gives us back our own personality, our own traits and loves, yet it first took our submission to His will and ways - which is galling to some. It gets back to a rather base point in my mind, actually : we all strive and seek God's ways and company, but are forever tricked into believing we want otherwise by the unseen workings of demons, and the unholy spirit which collectively guides those undying enemies of mankind. Read C.S. Lewis, "The Screwtape Letters" for a great illustration (and a good read). People fear "losing themselves", when in actuality the only thing they stand to lose is a lifetime collective of evil character, however integrated or overwrought in our lives.

Martial arts promote self-defense and submission holds that could incapacitate, which is far better than having to kill someone. Speaking of sin, from a karmic perspective, we run into the penalty of sin the second we commit it. The law is a lighthouse, we are the ship, the storm is our lives, and we possibly navigated ourselves into that storm! How worse it is to run aground on a calm day.

Past sin's cannot be changed, and no one is without sin. So, we either have to obtain a mechanism for forgiveness or we all lose. I think many of my fellow Christians, and any other people who believe in mercy for other humans, fail miserably at becoming pre-judges of other people. Sin is like beauty it is in the eye of the beholder. Sin is also subject to having a victim. The lord's prayer teaches us that we are asking God to forgive our sins according to how we forgive those who sinned against us. Thus teaching us how important forgiveness is in making everything right again.

Mother Teresa would help people the Hindu's would spit upon and the people would ask her why she helped those useless people? Here reply was her Jesus was in that person. Now I am not saying you MUST believe in Jesus or someone will kill you, but I surely believe the man existed and said you would surely die if you did not believe in him. Someething special happened then, the Ceasers documented it. Something special happened with Mother Teresa, I believe, and I am not a Catholic.

Does "love your neighbor, be kind to the poor, care for the sick and defend the defenseless" sound wrong? Christians need to lead by example keep it simple and follow the golden rule. When we do that, great things are allowed to happen. Maybe just a conversion, of those who don't believe now, into simply appreciating the love and care for our neighbors is all it really is about?

Every reply feels I'm preaching to the converted. Another possible way of defining sin (after reading more posts) could be defined as any selfish act, where we put ourselves before others. Is it not what ALL root religion encourages us to overcome.

Its great that religion has been compared to martial arts, I practice both and the discipline required is the same for both, both encourage me to develop for the benefit of those around me. Practicing the forms conditions my body so I can aid those around me, meditation allows me to condition my mind so that I have the ability to react to others in a less selfish way.

I would like to thank everyone who has posted as this thread has become a pleasure to read.

reply to post by halfoldman


Sin is anything that hurts the one committing it, another person or God.

For example -Lust is a sin because it is intrinsically selfish, you are thinking about how someones body can excite your own body with no regard for how it affects the person who you are lusting. If instead you imagine how it would be to get to know someone that beautiful and wish they might like you enough to interested in having a relationship with you...that is a healthy fantasy. The selfish fantasy makes the person being lusted after an object....but a relationship involves love and love is not a feeling but a decision to want the best for that person all the time.

Christianity teaches us we are strong enough to resist selfish feelings, rise above them and make noble decisions.

reply to post by halfoldman


Sin is decay. The primary forms of decay which lead to death are the inverse and opposite of the manifestations of Life (OrderCharity who are One, but have comer to us in "pair" as The Word and The Spirit of the Word). These are Pride and Chaos. Sin is a matter of quality and/opr nature rather than accomplishment. I hope this clarifies the matter.

reply to post by halfoldman
I don't believe there is such a thing as sin,it's a man-made act to keep us in line.To me life is a chance to learn,and Jesus was sent to help guide us to live a life of love, patience,compassion,empathy much like your parents teaching and guiding their child.Sins no, mistakes yes and we all make them some at a higher degree and some a lesser degree.No matter what we are all human, even mother Theresa made mistakes.

Sin comes from a word related to ancient English archery. All it means is to "fall short of the mark" as in the arrow did not make it to its target.

I explained this once in Chat and nobody seemed to pay any notice. Maybe somebody here will notice and realize that it cannot be used in the context that Christians are using it to claim that one deserves punishment from "god."
If anything you are falling short of who you can actually be, if you want to insist that the word be used in a religious context.

reply to post by halfoldman
halfoldman,

Well sir if there weren't no law there wouldn't be any wrong in the secular world or sin, wrong, in the religious world. There is law in both worlds and I don't think you or I would want to live where there wasn't any law.

Ro 7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.

But I tell you this we only need die once.

Truthiron

. I ain't a Christian but I have read the Bible cover to cover and I'm pretty sure that the only thing ever written in stone were the commandments.

This might sound arrogant. ... .. ....

For me a personal sin is an act that violates my own rules. Many of those rules emulate what I've cherry-picked from various religious text, however for me, they are also rules governing how I treat people, what I will tolerate, what I am willing to do to protect my family, how I will live, and my expectations of myself.

I believe it's a personal sin to steal from others. I leave the judgement of those who sin to a higher power -- it's theirs to do with or not.

Sure, lofty ideals, Argentus, but what if some rat steals everything you own, reducing your family's financial stability to nothing?

A fair question. I hope to not cross into that arena. I'm fairly certain that might induce me to sin.

Humanity's rules are varigated, culturally-influenced and not consistently applied across the globe. Once there were laws of nature, then law of the land, and culture and religion affected our perception of those laws.

Sin? Very nebulous. I think we have to use our own yardsticks to measure.

The only thing I have to add to this post is my brief semi-logical reasoning. If Eve did not know what good and evil was UNTIL she ate that apple (because she didn't gain the knowledge until after eating it) then how could she be punished for doing something that she didn't innately know was wrong at the time of doing it? She had no possible way of knowing that her biting the apple was wrong, and she had no understanding that disobeying God was something wrong either, at that moment in time, hypothetically. That's where the story falls apart for me, as you can see I didn't get too far with it.

reply to post by dragonsmusic


I think your secular explanation of sin is a beautiful analogy to the sin in a religious context we are discussing. "To fall short" seems so accurate. We were created for so much more and to sin is to reject that. What we are called to do is to rise about our animal instincts of hurting each other and try harder to decide to protect, comfort and aid those around us...even if they have done us harm.

Our freedom from God is what allows us to fall short...that way when we do do the noble and moral thing, it makes our relationship with God and our neighbor that much better. When we do NOT sin, do NOT fall short of the good moral choice, we become more patient, kinder, empathetic and loving. Therefore God will always forgive our falling short, just as a loving parent does to a child...what is important is that we recognize the times we fell short and learned from them.

Thank you for posting. It liked reading what you wrote.

reply to post by SpaceJ


If we think of it more from the parent's point of view (God's) and less from the child's point of view (Eve's) you will see a very different answer to your question.

God gave the information to Adam and Eve not eat the apple. Parents will inform their small children not to touch the fireplace or the stove...an extremely young child may not have reason to understand the stove can cause pain, but the parent knows and tells the child. The child a choice walk away or touch the stove to find our for himself what the big deal is. They the child will learn there is pain in the world. The child will learn about pain eventually but the parent tries to protect the child. Touching the stove is an act of disobedience which causes pain.

As it is with God, we do have to learn about pain, but God does give us instruction (laws) for how to minimize it. Avoiding sin is a way for us to avoid being pained and causing pain.

reply to post by SpaceJ


Also God had provided only love and comfort to Eve. She had no reason not to trust God knew what he was talking about. Sin did not exist until she had that first thought not to trust God, and to eat the apple anyway.

Sin is translated from the greek hamartano

hamartano literally means to miss the mark of aim

In England when there were archery contests and someone did not hit the target he was said to have sinned. This throws a whole new light on the meaning of sin and it is not so black and white as modern culture has made it out to be. Modern traditional religion has used it to induce fear and also compliance in it adherents.

It is interesting to me that modern Christians believe Judas sinned in betraying Christ yet thier entire belief in salvation is based on Christ Crucifixion which was facilitated by Judas's betrayal. Perhaps this is why Christ taught to not judge...

Personally, the greatest sin is stupidity. To not know and commit an error be it physical, mental, judicial, or whatever, is ignorance, which is treatable. To commit an error knowing better is stupidity and a sin, and in itself can spread like cancer. In the middle ages, the ratio of literate to illiterate was extremely high, therefore the ignorant masses were easily led along by the Church. Now, there is a higher rate of literate, but understanding is still lacking in some areas. Understanding leads to wisdom, but to gain this one must exercise patience, and that is also in very short supply. There is more to the bible than what king james put in it ( Yes, the lower case letters are intentional), after all there is the Apocrypha, the Nag Hammurabi scrolls, and books I am sure have yet to be found. To circumvent sin, you must first arm yourself with knowledge, become fluent in wisdom, and an artist with patience.

reply to post by halfoldman


a sin is a crime against god, only god can decide.

reply to post by snusfanatic


hahaha good one, And i see no finger prints of God on the bible, maybe this God you talk of is actually made by man.

If you assume God was made by man, that would explain all the contrasting religions in the world. There is no God, only the subjective God's invisioned by man used to control and ingest fear into it's followers.

Who decides what a sin is? Humans do. Sins are subjective. Eating the flesh of a human may seem morally wrong but in some tribes it is considered a merit to be a cannibal.

Having sex with an under 16 may be considered a "wrong" or against the law, but laws a different in different countries.

Originally posted by hawkiye
Sin is translated from the greek hamartano

hamartano literally means to miss the mark of aim

In England when there were archery contests and someone did not hit the target he was said to have sinned. This throws a whole new light on the meaning of sin and it is not so black and white as modern culture has made it out to be. Modern traditional religion has used it to induce fear and also compliance in it adherents.

It is interesting to me that modern Christians believe Judas sinned in betraying Christ yet thier entire belief in salvation is based on Christ Crucifixion which was facilitated by Judas's betrayal. Perhaps this is why Christ taught to not judge...

I could not agree more. It is so obvious that every human being falls short at some time. People who go around judging were compared to the wheat and the tares. Jesus was basically scolding people who judge their fellow man and pointing out that the farmer does not pull the tares(weeds) away from the wheat for fear of damaging the wheat harvest. We were clearly given commandments that mean to look the other way, no matter the sin because no one is blameless. I have trouble with that in certain cases like sociapathic killers and people who endanger my family, but I apply it liberally otherwise. Perhaps to the point that some consider it a weakness but I see the good far outweighs the bad by being kind to others.

Sin is a figment of someones imagination. Although we are familiar with the religious groups that claim absolute moral that actually enforce their ways by punishment and/or repercussion warnings for the future.

I've personally noticed that every sin has been and still is an evolutionary advantage that ups the percentage of survival.

Personally I think sin is any action that leads to unnecessary harm.