Jesus Would Kick Your Preacher's Ass!

If Jesus were alive here today, he would probably kick your preacher's ass! That goes for your priest, your imam, your pastor, your reverend, or whoever else is leading any house of worship dedicated to the monotheistic God of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Muhammad.

Look at the example of Jesus at the synagogue. Cleansing of the Temple. He saw people in the house of worship flipping a profit. This great man, Jesus, was so angry that for a moment he lost his Peace! He ran over to the coin changers and flipped their tables. He yelled out loud and insulted them. He kicked people out of the temple and blocked the doors so no one could enter. He didn't even act this way during his trial or execution!

But what do we see today? We see pastor with an expensive watch, a nice car, and expensive house. You see Evangelical leaders with multi-million dollar incomes! The Vatican has vast fortune and wealth! The keepers of the Ka'bah in Mecca are making a fortune there with Hajj, pilgrimage, and tourism. Not to mention the Saudis are the exclusive printers of the Arabic Qur'an.

So Jesus lost his cool over some guys selling birds and making money in the houses of worship. How do you think he would handle seeing these modern religious leaders making millions... billions? If the leader has a message, listen to it and may you gain Peace and/or an understanding from it. Jesus never charged a fee for his message, why should the church leaders?


Biblical Reference
Mark 11:15-19
Matthew 21:12-13
Luke 19:45-46
John 2:13-16

They are ravening wolves. They are all rich from poor people giving them money. They got a really good scam going. I think Jesus said it best, " It will be easier for a camel to through an eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven."

Keep Jesus dead! Jesus to me is nothing but a liar and deceiver! The teachings of Jesus goes against God and any word of the Torah and Talmud.
The Eternal Torah

There is a reason why the Torah is eternal and should not be contradicted like the New Testament does so well.

This is not a difficult concept to grasp. The prophets repeatedly told us that we have to perform the Torah forevermore, and then Paul came along and said otherwise. That makes Paul a false prophet, because he contradicted Moses. G-d formulated the Torah. The Torah is perfection. For a Christian to say the Torah is anything less is to insult G-d. G-d gave the Torah to Moses. Moses taught it to the children of Israel. Moses told us that this was the way it was going to be forever. It's that simple.

Prophets
Jesus, his disciples and Paul are false prophets.

A true prophet sent by G-d will never preach a message contrary to even one of the Torah's precepts. If someone claiming Divine Inspiration, the Torah demands that this so-called prophet prove himself. In light of this, Jesus and Paul did some rather heinous things in their lifetimes. They completely vilified those who opposed their theologies, a crime from which stems two thousand years of Christian anti-Semitism. They did everything that a false prophet could do to loudly scream that he was false. Chapters 13 and 18 of Deuteronomy clearly define false prophets, and Jesus and Paul are the living incarnations of that definition.

So I could care less who fights who. They all lose in the eyes of God!

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


I have believed Paul to be a liar, deceiver, and an Antichrist for a long time now. Not only does Paul's teachings contradict the Torah and Talmud, but if studied closely Paul even contradicts Jesus' message.

Please, I do not wish to debate Christianity in this thread. I am simply referencing the 4 ordained Gospels on which Christianity is based upon.

It is too hard to honestly say what the true teachings of Jesus were. Remember the Nicean Council? Thousands of Gospels and varying teachings of Jesus were destroyed in favor of the 4 we see today in the New Testament. Those 4 Gospels were chosen on the principle of which church leaders had the most power, most wealth, most influence, and most connections and relations with Emperor Constantine I.

reply to post by Sahabi


Well I still stand by my statement. I apologize for showing off. I like to post my views and see what you have to say about the sources.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


No need to apologize! You know you're my homie.

I just want to focus on the actual Biblical example of Jesus getting pissed off, and comparing it to today's church leaders.

reply to post by Sahabi


Well I can agree with that statement! I do recall when I was a Christian reading and then watching how Jesus protested at the temple. I believe it was on the Sabbath and they were doing taxes. That's all I can recall.

Yes, as a bank "Revolter" and a Christian I appreciate the irony that the only time Jesus ever lost it - was with bankers!

The hypocrisy, shameless solicitations for "donations" and mega-church-building is the reason I don't go to church. My worship is simple - pray only for knowledge of God's will for me and the power to carry it out! Then, get up each day and help heal the sick, cuz that's what Jesus did.

Well, not mine, most likely. As I and others noted in a recent thread, most ministers make squat for money. People should stop letting the ridiculous actions of some, which are clearly counter to Christ's teaching, speak for all. That's known as prejudice, and it's no better in this instance than the way it is applied by racists, homophobes and others.

Jesus would never make it through the world today. he would be killed before anyone could learn anything from him. Conspiracies would abound and he would be kicked off world by the Christians.

His teachings in today's language would be taken as cult speak.

Jesus did verbally kick alot of ass including law enforcement, government councils and church ministering preachers, and of course he would love to kick teachers asses.

reply to post by Sahabi


Jesus called what the moneychangers were doing a "den of THIEVES", not a 'den of merchandisers'.

These money changers were robbing the poor who had come for passover sacrifice. They would tell the people their sacrifice wasn't "kosher", or was blemished, then sell them one that "was" okay to sacrifice at a hefty price, then turn around and sell their supposedly blemished sacrifice to the next person that came by, for a hefty price again.

Originally posted by adjensen
People should stop letting the ridiculous actions of some, which are clearly counter to Christ's teaching, speak for all. That's known as prejudice, and it's no better in this instance than the way it is applied by racists, homophobes and others.

In debate that's called "using the exception to define the rule", a MAJOR fallacy of logic.

Didn't Christ also warn us to "beware of wolves in sheep's clothing", apparently some folks think Jesus was high that day He spoke that prophecy.

Originally posted by Sahabi
reply to post by Romantic_Rebel

 

No need to apologize! You know you're my homie.

I just want to focus on the actual Biblical example of Jesus getting pissed off, and comparing it to today's church leaders.

You haven't even nailed the reason Jesus was pissed yet.

reply to post by Sahabi

It is too hard to honestly say what the true teachings of Jesus were. Remember the Nicean Council? Thousands of Gospels and varying teachings of Jesus were destroyed in favor of the 4 we see today in the New Testament. Those 4 Gospels were chosen on the principle of which church leaders had the most power, most wealth, most influence, and most connections and relations with Emperor Constantine I.

Someone has been spending too much time in fiction books authored by Dan Brown. The Nicean Council never discussed the canon of scripture.

reply to post by NOTurTypical


Hello, thanks for taking the time to weigh in xD

I've never read any Dan Brown books, and I don't know who he is. Any worth in researching him or reading his works? Additionally, I've never read any Christian Fiction books before... well, unless you count "Mystery of the Ages" by Herbert W. Armstrong.

I actually learned of the history of Christianity from theology school and correspondence courses. I was intended on becoming a preacher in 2000. I can send you my certifications if you'd like, so you can be assured I'm not a little kid with over-zealous reiterations of other people's opinions.

I appreciate your explanation of the temple cleansing event. However, I fear you are doing what many Christians do, which is apply your own personal opinion/understanding to verses. If this is not the case, and your interpretation is correct, could you please offer me Biblical reference and/or other manuscripts as to your interpretation? I would love to be corrected rather than spreading falsities. This is in regards to the rejection of the sacrifice for not being kosher, and selling a better sacrifice.

Jesus became hostile towards both the money changers and those selling animals. So how can you say it had nothing to do with merchandising? The Bible clearly states money changers and those selling animals. Pretty much indicates Jesus detested both the money changers and the animal merchandisers.

Thanks again for weighing in. And I'll happily accept my understanding is incorrect if you can provide Biblical reasoning to do so. Not just some random verse taken from the Old Testament.... unless of course there was an older temple cleansing event that occurred. I know Jesus loved to quote Torah, so I'll accept Old Testament if it is in correct context.

Hope to hear from ya soon. Peace

Originally posted by Sahabi
I actually learned of the history of Christianity from theology school and correspondence courses. I was intended on becoming a preacher in 2000. I can send you my certifications if you'd like, so you can be assured I'm not a little kid with over-zealous reiterations of other people's opinions.

If said school and/or correspondence courses are the source for your belief that "thousands of Gospels were thrown out and the Council of Nicaea determined the contents of the New Testament, dictated by Constantine", you should demand a refund immediately.

My friend's comment about Dan Brown is one that I echo -- too many people are quick to latch onto conspiracy theories like Brown postulates in The Da Vinci Code, and you have repeated, pretty much verbatim here. The historical reality is that the New Testament was settled over a hundred years before the Council of Nicaea, and was largely unchanged since the early second century.

However, those who wish to believe in the "evils of the Church", or who want to believe Gnosticism or other mysterious aspects of Jesus Christ need to push this sort of agenda, despite the fact that there is no support, whatsoever, for it.

If this is true, what was the point of the Nicean Councils? Was it not to once and for all settle all discrepancy, remove all dissenters, destroy all differing views of Christ? Was not the Nicean Council implemented to squash all variety and create a "One True Church"? Substitue "church" for "teaching" if you want.

Yes, the 4 Ordained Gospels have been agreed upon for some time well before the Nicean Council. However, it was never unanimous. There were many varying and differing churches, doctrine, and gospels. The Nicean Council happened so that the most influential, most wealthy, most powerful, and most well Roman-friendly connected Christian leaders could impose their unquestionable understandings onto all the the arguing and dissenting Christian sects.

So the burning of thousands of "heretic" gospels never happened?

Originally posted by Sahabi
If this is true, what was the point of the Nicean Councils? Was it not to once and for all settle all discrepancy, remove all dissenters, destroy all differing views of Christ? Was not the Nicean Council implemented to squash all variety and create a "One True Church"? Substitue "church" for "teaching" if you want.

The Council was the first Ecumenical (world-wide) meeting of the Christian church, which had recently been legalized by Constantine (who was, however, not a Christian at the time -- whether he ever became one is a matter of debate.) The key point of the Council, which is contained in the well known Nicene Creed, was the nature of Jesus, and whether he was of the same essence as the Father.

Yes, the 4 Ordained Gospels have been agreed upon for some time well before the Nicean Council. However, it was never unanimous. There were many varying and differing churches, doctrine, and gospels.

Good grief, when have you ever known anyone to agree universally on anything? However, the core tenets of Christianity have remained the same since the days of Paul. There was no "evil rewriting of the Bible" to accommodate Constantine, sorry.

So the burning of thousands of "heretic" gospels never happened?

Thousands? Highly unlikely. People have some very odd notions of how common writing was in this era, and I would consider a "Gospel" written hundreds of years after Christ to contain few, if any, legitimate truths that aren't documented in earlier works.

I really wanted to stay away from ideological debate in this thread. I was only trying to illustrate that Jesus would be so angry at our current church leaders and the wealth they are accumulating by using his name.


reply to post by adjensen

You would've been happy with my religious schooling. It is all perfectly in line with doctrine and dogma. But that was my problem. Why make doctrine and dogma if it does not literally say so in the Bible?

I left Christianity because all of the neglect of fact and reason in favor of the, "you just have to believe / you just have to have faith" explanations. This is even contrary to the Bible:

1 Thessalonians 5:21 "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

1 Corinthians 14:33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints."


And anyway, you have proved my point exactly. All of the Councils were necessary because of the wide-scale variation. Think about it outside your religious context for one minute. Why make a council to "clarify" Christianity if it was mostly uniform? Why make a council if the vast majority of Christians agreed, and only a small few were dissenters? The council was needed to unify all of the arguing.

Christians love to romanticize the Nicene council, but go do some hardcore research on the matter. Even within this council they kept fighting and arguing. Some bishops even staged walkouts! And even after all of the bickering of the Nicene Councils, they still couldn't agree on anything! Council of Carthage and many other councils were held later to settle arguments on canonization and doctrine.

Romanticize it all you want. Truth be told the Councils (All of them) were not reconciled peacefully by God's Grace. It was a freaking hostile political free-for-all. My church has more followers than you, I have more money than you, Emperor Constantine is my homeboy, I have more religious allies than you.... you all have to listen to me by default of money and power!!!! What? You disagree? You have different holy scripts than me? To the fire with your cannons!!!!

P.S.
Jesus would kick your preacher's ass, and I have $5 on it :p