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T.S.A. : Birth of A Monster, Coup Against American Rights, F.E.M.A. Started and D.A.R.P.A. Finished

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posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 04:38 PM
reply to post by crimvelvet

I have to disagree with your reply to Jean Paul Zodeaux on a few key elements.

I do not believe the events of 9/11 are unprovable by any means whatsoever.

While this thread is focusing more on the why than the how it is wholly provable.

It is however us who must focus on a systematic way of doing the research together.

Which is exactly why and how I create threads like this one in particular free of ignorant behavior.

On my part and I ask all who follow the thread to do the same since I lead by example.

That is the largest part of my disagreement with your assessment and I only wanted to rebut that particular part.

I do see the events of 9/11 as well as the cover-up process endemic of Washington D.C.

That the C.I.A. and F.B.I. were sidestepped, through the 9/11 Commission, just like J.F.K. and the Warren Commission, is evidence enough, as well as should have had the directors of both organizations questioning motive to asking them to sit on the bench.

This is because a "commission" is a means to buffer someone far too close to evidence.

So no politicians will go to jail for treason or complicit knowledge of events.

Two books in particular point to this evidence alone all by themselves.

Ghost Wars: The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001

Amazon Review :

Steve Coll's Ghost Wars:

The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 offers revealing details of the CIA's involvement in the evolution of the Taliban and Al Qaeda in the years before the September 11 attacks.

From the beginning, Coll shows how the CIA's on-again, off-again engagement with Afghanistan after the end of the Soviet war left officials at Langley with inadequate resources and intelligence to appreciate the emerging power of the Taliban.

He also demonstrates how Afghanistan became a deadly playing field for international politics where Soviet, Pakistani, and U.S. agents armed and trained a succession of warring factions.

At the same time, the book, though opinionated, is not solely a critique of the agency.

Coll balances accounts of CIA failures with the success stories, like the capture of Mir Amal Kasi.

Coll, managing editor for the Washington Post, covered Afghanistan from 1989 to 1992.

He demonstrates unprecedented access to records of White House meetings and to formerly classified material, and his command of Saudi, Pakistani, and Afghani politics is impressive.

He also provides a seeming insider's perspective on personalities like George Tenet, William Casey, and anti-terrorism czar, Richard Clarke ("who seemed to wield enormous power precisely because hardly anyone knew who he was or what exactly he did for a living").

Coll manages to weave his research into a narrative that sometimes has the feel of a Tom Clancy novel yet never crosses into excess.

While comprehensive, Coll's book may be hard going for those looking for a direct account of the events leading to the 9-11 attacks.

The CIA's 1998 engagement with bin Laden as a target for capture begins a full two-thirds of the way into Ghost Wars, only after a lengthy march through developments during the Carter, Reagan, and early Clinton Presidencies.

But this is not a critique of Coll's efforts; just a warning that some stamina is required to keep up.

Ghost Wars is a complex study of intelligence operations and an invaluable resource for those seeking a nuanced understanding of how a small band of extremists rose to inflict incalculable damage on American soil.

--Patrick O'Kelley


The Bin Ladens: An Arabian Family in the American Century

Publishers Weekly :

The bin Ladens are famous for spawning the world's foremost terrorist and building one of the Middle East's foremost corporate dynasties.

Pulitzer Prize–winner Coll (Ghost Wars) delivers a sprawling history of the multifaceted clan, paying special attention to its two most emblematic members.

Patriarch Mohamed's eldest son, Salem, was a caricature of the self-indulgent plutocrat: a flamboyant jet-setter dependent on the Saudi monarchy, obsessed with all things motorized (he died crashing his plane after a day's joy-riding atop motorcycle and dune-buggy) and forever tormenting his entourage with off-key karaoke.

Coll presents quite a contrast with an unusually nuanced profile of Salem's half-brother Osama, a shy, austere, devout man who nonetheless shares Salem's egomania.

Other bin Ladens crowd Coll's narrative with the eye-glazing details of their murky business deals, messy divorces and ill-advised perfume lines and pop CDs.

Beneath the clutter one discerns an engrossing portrait of a family torn between tradition and modernity, conformism and self-actualization, and desperately in search of its soul.

(April 1) Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc.

All rights reserved.

These two books plus almost every book I've ever posted on ATS in my 5 years uncover all the plot twists.

The Bush family, the Al Saud family, and Bin Laden family all tied up together nice and neatly.

I have enough evidence compiled to put all 6 of the mentioned name from P.N.A.C. away for life.

The problem is that all has to go before the Internationcal Court of Justice of the United Nations.

Quote from : Wikipedia : International Court of Justice

The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations.

It is based in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands.

Its main functions are to settle legal disputes submitted to it by states and to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies, and the UN General Assembly.

The ICJ should not be confused with the International Criminal Court, which potentially also has global jurisdiction.

The problem here is I am a citizen not a leader who would be recognized by the I.C.J.

As well, the last man who compiled evidence, died of a "mysterious place accident", on the way there.

That man was Ron Brown and he was ready to testify against Bill Clinton through leveraged blackmail.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Ron Brown : Death

On April 3, 1996, while on an official trade mission, the Air Force CT-43 (a modified Boeing 737) carrying Brown and 34 other people, including New York Times Frankfurt Bureau chief Nathaniel C. Nash, crashed in Croatia.

While attempting an instrument approach to Čilipi airport, the airplane crashed into a mountainside.

Everyone aboard was killed instantly except Air Force Tech. Sgt. Shelley Kelly, a flight attendant, who died while being transported to a hospital.

The final Air Force investigation attributed the crash to pilot error and a poorly designed landing approach.

Speculations as to the circumstances surrounding the plane crash that caused Brown's death include many government cover-up and conspiracy theories, largely based on Brown having been under investigation by independent counsel for corruption.

"Pilot error" my big fuzzy behind.
edit on 12/5/10 by SpartanKingLeonidas because: Adding Depth and Insight Into the Post.

posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 04:59 PM
reply to post by ofhumandescent

Excellent reply, ofhumandescent, and I applaud your delving more into Hollerith and the Census.

All of that is true and you have read some of the same books as I have obviously.

But satellites are almost obsolete if you know about things like Geotagging.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Geotagging

Geotagging is the process of adding geographical identification metadata to various media such as photographs, video, websites, SMS messages, or RSS feeds and is a form of geospatial metadata.

These data usually consist of latitude and longitude coordinates, though they can also include altitude, bearing, distance, accuracy data, and place names.

It is commonly used for photographs, giving geotagged photographs.

Geotagging can help users find a wide variety of location-specific information.

For instance, one can find images taken near a given location by entering latitude and longitude coordinates into a suitable image search engine.

Geotagging-enabled information services can also potentially be used to find location-based news, websites, or other resources.

Geotagging can tell users the location of the content of a given picture or other media or the point of view, and conversely on some media platforms show media relevant to a given location.

The related term geocoding refers to the process of taking non-coordinate based geographical identifiers, such as a street address, and finding associated geographic coordinates (or vice versa for reverse geocoding).

Such techniques can be used together with geotagging to provide alternative search techniques.

We simply do not have sufficient satellites to track all of the cell phones on the planet.

So, this means technology is shifting, and so is the ways to track us and we have to pay attention.

This method will be combined with our R.F.I.D. chipping and it will eliminate any speculation.

Combined between the metal detectors at the airports and cell phone towers we're screwed.

Sounds familiar does it not?

posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 07:28 PM

How are you being watched?

How many different people know your moves that you never will see?

How much information on you is out there ready to pick like low hanging fruit?

Do we really need to live this way?
Seems for thousands and thousands of years we did without this!

Yet these mentally disturbed wealthy freaks and their deformed spiritual views dont recognize the real world in front of their faces, they hold to a belief in the unseen and mythical darkness of all encompassing power and eternal reign.

And there are those who want you silenced,and unable to communicate freely with others,
hiding behind protective legislation they will continue to batter at that right until it has crumbled and you are gagged.

HEART STRINGS , it will be offered as a cure, as the best way to live, as the only way to live, you will be problem free, it will be marketed and sold, and people will line up to get it, because they will be offered a new beginning, a clean slate, and monetary freeeeeedom.
edit on 5-12-2010 by HappilyEverAfter because: (no reason given)

posted on Dec, 5 2010 @ 09:32 PM
reply to post by truthseeker1984

Thank you.

You wish list for books is going to grow exponentially.

I've added quite a few before I even got your reply so keep looking and reading.

Brilliant, I can concur with, insane is how I see it however, the amount of paranoia is choking.

That we as citizens are abused so much with this sort of power structure is what I see as something being stalked by our very Government, against our will, those of us who know of course, and while I see the intelligence within the design I cannot agree with it.

Turning the people against themselves was never a difficult prospect because people are easily divided.

Our own behaviors are easily manipulated by those controlling the broadcast of information in society.

While the people have a bad habit of falling into labels of left verses right or Conservative verses Liberal, or even Republican verses Democrat, this is because of people's inability to lead themselves, and certainly at some point their thoughts are towards following a certain path, I've found if you pick any side in this miscombobulation of false leadership from those within Washington D.C. is so finite, and so dispassionate towards what is right, as well as two sides of the same damn coin I've stopped and thought and for myself I am a registered Independent and Centrist.

About the only way to keep those at the Capitol from manipulating you in my humble opinion.

Especially in regards to safety, security, and liberty.

I concur fear is a strong motivator, we all have the built in fight or flight mode, it's a part of our instincts.

What few instincts we have left that have not been bred out of us due to the political correct crap.

While I am certainly understanding in recognizing people, I do not believe, we as Americans, need to recognize another country with a hyphen before our own country when speaking of another fellow American citizen, as this is an absurd way of literally putting other countries ahead of our own through the moniker of African-American, Asian-American, Australian-American, it makes us subvert our own country for our ancestry, unless we have respect for our ancestors and know our heritage is American, it is a tool of the elite you reference admiration for who want us to assist in collapsing our own country.

Without resistance to their agenda.

I want my country to do the job our taxes pay in keeping out illegal immigrants, allowing legal immigrants to come, to stop the drugs flowing across our borders by not only making our border airtught but as well if we're going to fund a War on Drugs to go into the countries responsible for the growth of this endemic flood of waste instead of seeking out oil and land grabs like is Washington D.C.'s nature, as well for Puppet Regime's to stop altogether if we're funding it because it is just a mirror of a sad state of control without merit towards subverting another countries will to our own self-interests.

Basically said, America needs to take care of her own, and stop giving out handouts in financial aid to countries not willing to get off their lazy backside and be a responsible international partner in making this world a safer place because they are considered a third-world country, because while we are a world leader, we are not the breadline for everyone else.

As a great man used to do, you can feed a man for one day, or you can teach the man to feed himself tomorrow.

edit on Mon, 06 Dec 2010 10:25:01 -0600 by JacKatMtn because: corrections per member request

posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 05:56 AM

Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by truthseeker1984

Our own behaviors are easily manipulated by those controlling the broadcast of information in society.

This sentence right here says volumes,
I'd like to share with you what fires off in my mind when I read it.

'our own behaviors' = choices, patterns, positions, beliefs, actions, comments, defenses, likes, dislikes !

'are easily manipulated' = created, nurtured, led, directed, steered, designed, instructed, influenced, charged,
scripted, shaped, trained, conditioned !

'by those controlling ' = deeply rooted, extremely powerful, beyond wealthy, select elite, megalomaniacs,
internationalists, owners of governments, owners of industry, directors of agencies,
creators of puppets, mentally corrupted, spiritually darkened, globally organized,
historic in age !

'the broadcast of information in society.' = newspapers, television, radio, news, movies, shows, events,
policies, reports, statistics, images, sound bites, editted quotes,
omitted data, embellished data !

Your EMOTIONS are accessed, they are engaged and used as a steering wheel, it is done with such accuracy and skill that at times your logic is suspended, what seems at first unbelieveable quickly takes root due to the frequency of the message and information presented. Your intelligence is highjacked, it's actually overidden,
you are emotionally engaged, passion replaces commonsense, position replaces need.
Lies become truth, surrender becomes acceptance.
THIS is where the battle is fought.

posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 08:13 AM
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter

Goes right along with the topic, HappilyEverAfter, through Security Theater.

Nothing more than a charade of security if you ask me.

Just wait until it gets to the point where buses, trains, and cars are searched everywhere.

And investigations like that of the Oklahoma City Bombing are the answer in alleged claims of one man?

Others : "For Those Die-Hard Conspiracy Theorists Who Will Refuse To Believe This,..."

Horse puckey, either lazy or corrupt investigative techniques, half-assed Law Enforcement if you ask me.

And lazy enforcement of job duties by the courts as well if that slipshod investigation was allowed.

Which moves on to ignorant litigation which is allowed to choke our courtrooms.

Facebook Sues Teacher Resource for Using the Word "Book"

Court cases like the above are exactly why judges cannot focus on real criminal cases or issue warrants.

I'm speaking of real necessity not stupid issues where time and precious money is being wasted.

This is the type of stuff which makes us unsafe and allows actual terrorists to go free.

No Place To Hide : Face Recognition, Information Data-Mining, and Loss of Anonymity

Which only leads to more levels of Security Theater without the jobs of protection really being done.

All it takes is people willing to do their jobs, the right way, if they see something needs to be fixed, recognize it and present it to the right supervisor, if that supervisor is a part of the problem then find a legitimate way to bring it to the right persons attention and get it changed.

The problem stems from a need for change verses an actual threat to the system with embedded management.

Seeing as we're in the topic of "security" within this thread I will give an example of my changing it.

I used to work as a Security Officer in a hospital dealing with psyche patients.

Within the first two weeks I recognized there was a major problem with corrupt practices.

Baker Act patients were being brought in and not being dealt with properly.

The Baker Act is Florida's answer to dealing with psychologically unfit people by holding them for observation for 3 consecutive days, which ties into future abuses with where I see T.S.A. heading, as well as Homeland Security abusing our rights due to terrorism.

A list of problems I immediately noticed :

1) Security was set in their ways, a rut developed, they did not care about patient over safety.

2) The inhouse psyche facility took their time processing people leaving the Emergency Room to go upstairs.

Hopsital protocol is to cycle a psyche patient through the E.R. to do a blood test, make sure the patient is not harmed physically due to rough Law Enforcement, check them for illnesses not seen so as to not affect anyone else, etc.

3) The Emergency Department staff had a crappy bedside manner and homeless psyche patients as well as regular psyche patients were treated as less than human due to those people running the different shifts perception of the patients psychological state almost being contagious in a sense through a superiority complex of Doctors, Nurses, and Security.

4) Patients were waiting 5, 10, 20, up 55 hours to be processed to go upstairs to the inhouse psyche facility.

This is before they ever entered the 72 hour observation which only compounded issues.

5) No one but me was asking question about this even though other Security Officers recognized some of the issues.

Needless to say I made very few friends within the hospital due to my ability to recognize the problems.

Quite easily I might add, and security was just as much a part of the problem, as they could be in the solution.

I had Security Officers complaining about my bucking the system, I got chewed out for it, I had a difficult time with fellow employees more so than dealing with psychological patients, due to aggressive tendencies in what I call the mindless barbarians.

All because I recognized the issues, showed compassion, knew patients were being billed for their entire time which only complicated matters if they had no healthcare insurance, because it was billed to the State of Florida, which means many levels of fraud were being run against the patients at the taxpayers expense, and no one was doing a thing to stop it.

Except me.

A new manager was brought in after the hospital fired 25 managers and she asked me to come see her.

Apparently, I was the only Security Officer she asked, because this made waves too, but that's another story.

She asked me to make a list up and tell her the issues I saw which I did and she enacted the majority of them immediately.

I bring this up because it is a security issue where chokepoints happen within society especially Airport Security.

Scanners and Pat Downs are not the answer but people who actually give a damn about doing their jobs.

The work ethic in this country is appaling, just as much as the corporate abuse of workers with crappy pay, just as much as oversight is a joke because it only compounds issues usually because people begin hiding their wrongdoings. It is endemic of Government work too because once you're hired for a Government job it is almost impossible to get fired unless you get in a newspaper story committing a major crime due to the stovepipe mentality within Government.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Stovepiping

Stovepiping is a metaphorical term which recalls a stovepipe's function as an isolated vertical conduit, and has been used, in the context of intelligence, to describe several ways in which raw intelligence information may be presented without proper context.

The lack of context may be due to the specialized nature, or security requirements, of a particular intelligence collection technology.

Alternatively, the lack of context may come from a particular group, in the national policy structure, selectively presenting only that information that supports certain conclusions.

This sort of ignorance is due to Institutional Knowledge where longevity of employment obscures functionality.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Institutional Knowledge

Institutional memory is a collective set of facts, concepts, experiences and know-how held by a group of people.

As it transcends the individual, it requires the ongoing transmission of these memories between members of this group.

Elements of institutional memory may be found in corporations, professional groups, government bodies, religious groups, academic collaborations and by extension in entire cultures.

Institutional memory may be encouraged to preserve an ideology or way of work in such a group.

Conversely, institutional memory may be ingrained to the point that it becomes hard to challenge if something is found to contradict that which was previously thought to have been correct.

This is what I believe T.S.A. is already having issues with due to ignorant management practices.

Which leads to scanners and pat downs as the answer to an issue which is more readily fixed.

It is as well the same exact thing that lead to the events of 9/11 and how easily it was pulled off.

Due to the Insitutional Knowledge which is like a pond growing stagnant it becomes a peat bog.


posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 08:30 AM
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter

My answer to your post is an easy one and it is two words, Psychological Operations :

Quote from : Wikipedia : Psychological Operations (United States)

Psychological operations are planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behaviour of foreign governments, organisations, groups, and individuals.

The purpose of United States psychological operations (PSYOP) is to induce or reinforce behaviour favourable to US objectives.

They are an important part of the range of diplomatic, informational, military, and economic activities available to the US.

They can be utilised during both peacetime and conflict.

There are three main types: strategic, operational, and tactical.

Strategic PSYOP include informational activities conducted by the US government agencies outside of the military arena, though many utilise Department of Defense (DOD) assets.

Operational PSYOP are conducted across the range of military operations, including during peacetime, in a defined operational area to promote the effectiveness of the joint force commander's (JFC) campaigns and strategies.

Tactical PSYOP are conducted in the area assigned to a tactical commander across the range of military operations to support the tactical mission against opposing forces.

Underlined by SKL

This ties in directly with my last reply to you as well because it fits with Institutional Knowledge.

So few people know, or realize for that matter, that Government practices this through propaganda at all times, outside our borders, inside our borders, against allies just as much as against enemies.

The American Federal Government became addicted to using propaganda like a crack-baby, during WWII, not that it did not happen prior to that, but it became a part of both foreign and domestic policy, and after events like the assassination of J.F.K. it became one of the major reason American citizens stopped trusting in our own Government because of an ill feeling among the mind of the citizens.

It is one of our countries saving graces that we still recognize it to some extent.
edit on 12/6/10 by SpartanKingLeonidas because: Adding Depth and Insight Into the Post.

posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 09:48 AM
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

I have to disagree with your reply to Jean Paul Zodeaux on a few key elements.

I do not believe the events of 9/11 are unprovable by any means whatsoever....

I stand corrected. Thanks for the info. As I said I have not been following 9/11. I also agree that anyone trying to "prove" anything in a court of law will end up dead. There are lots of examples of that throughout history.

Also my frustration was showing. The take over of the world food supply by the Ag Cartel is glaringly obvious but absolutely no one I have talked to gives a hoot. The subject bores them.

The idea that the same group of megalomaniacs behind 9/11 have just gotten the Senate to pass the last key component of their plan to control 100% of the food supply -and no one sees it or cares - has been giving me nightmares.

The EU, Canada, Australia and now the USA, the big grain/food producers for the world, now have the laws in place. The regs are already written by the "international standard setting committees" and the bureaucracies are packed with the likes of Monsanto, Cargill and others.

I am really sick of people giving me the Tester amendment will protect small farmers - pat pat patpat.

The agitation to remove the Tester amendment has already started.


...I am an unpaid volunteer for STOP []
Deadly pathogens do not discriminate based on the size of a business. They can and do contaminate foods from the tiniest to the largest producers and processors....

Furthermore, one could argue that larger entities would practice stricter contamination prevention-strategies because they can cause more damage and because they have a larger public profile and therefore can be identified if a food-borne illness outbreak occurs....

"larger entities would practice stricter contamination prevention" ????

I wonder what planet she is living on. She certainly did not read about John Munsell's experience with Conagra and the USDA.

This site lists the FDA/Corporate revolving door:

This site lists the USDA/Corporate revolving door:

The noose is tightening around our collective necks and people, like the lady from STOP, are willfully blind to the actual truth.

posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 10:26 AM
reply to post by HappilyEverAfter

This sentence right here says volumes...

It certainly does.

When I hear it I think of these quotes which sum up the current situation in the world.

(Rosa Delauro's hubby is the Stan Greenberg of Greenberg Carville Shrum who directed Campaigns in 60 countries)

..Republican pollster Frank Luntz says "Stan Greenberg scares the hell out of me. He doesn't just have a finger on the people's pulse; he's got an IV injected into it.”

Motto: "Before becoming history and even before taking place, a lot of major events are prepared in laboratories"

This, I find to be the scariest quote of all:

“... Over the last quarter-century, historians have by and large ceased writing about the role of ruling elites in the country's evolution. Or if they have taken up the subject, they have done so to argue against its salience for grasping the essentials of American political history. Yet there is something peculiar about this recent intellectual aversion...

This aversion has coincided, after all, with one of the largest and fastest-growing disparities in the division of income and wealth in American history....Neglecting the powerful had not been characteristic of historical work before World War II. ”

posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 11:21 AM
reply to post by SpartanKingLeonidas

...The work ethic in this country is appalling, just as much as the corporate abuse of workers with crappy pay, just as much as oversight is a joke because it only compounds issues usually because people begin hiding their wrongdoings. It is endemic of Government work too because once you're hired for a Government job it is almost impossible to get fired unless you get in a newspaper story committing a major crime due to the stovepipe mentality within Government....

This paragraph certainly rings a LOUD bell. One of the problems I spotted that very few others have is corporate management and governments are now substituting paperwork for thinking and reality.

For several decades I watched the quality system in the USA (and the rest of the world) go from systems of testing like Mil. Std. 105D and government testing labs overseeing the quality of food, drugs and products, to ISO - internationally set standards. The horror of ISO is the faith placed in paperwork from someone with the financial motivation to cheat. No amount of arguing with upper management could get them to put in place even cursory incoming inspection. I was accused of being paranoid... until the inevitable million dollar SNAFU.

ISO is nothing more than blueprints for reams of paperwork that supposedly provide tracking for problems. It has been substituted for real quality control. ISO does not solve problems it papers over problems and lets large corporations hide mistakes while drowning small business in useless red tape via new laws and regulations.

Legislators overlook serious flaw in USDA’s HACCP food-safety system—while promoting its adoption by FDA

...when USDA “officials initially described HACCP to the industry in the mid-90’s, the agency made the following enticing promises:

* “Under HACCP, the agency will implement a ‘Hands Off’ role in meat inspection.

* “Under HACCP, the agency will no longer police the industry, but the industry will police itself.

* “Under HACCP, the agency will disband its previous command and control authority.

* “Under HACCP, each plant will write its own HACCP Plan, and the agency cannot tell plants what must be in their HACCP Plans.”

...As a result, the inspector was no longer responsible for what was happening on the plant floor: that was left to company personnel. The new role of the inspector was to make sure that plant personnel were carrying out their duties in a manner consistent with the HACCP plan. In many cases this amounted to making sure that all of the paper work was in the proper order....

And people wonder WHY there was a sudden rash of food poisoning.

What is seen with T.S.A. is typical. Instead of using your brain, blindly follow the written procedures, place your faith in a system that costs lots of money and doesn't do a thing to solve the problem of "Terrorists"

I can think of lots of ways to get around T.S.A. and still kill a lot of people and I am sure anyone with 1/2 a brain could too. Meanwhile we use "political correctness" and a wide open border to INVITE the terrorists to come play.

To the government agents monitoring - no I do not fly - I worked in quality control of aircraft engines and was fired... There is NO WAY I will get back on a plane given what I now know of quality of the steel in those engines.

PS your whistle-blower program rots.

posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 12:42 PM
reply to post by crimvelvet

I would not say I corrected you.

If anything more like informed you where you were uninformed.

Yes, proving something of the magnitude we as conspiracy theorists speak of daily, will get people dead.

Whether by another alleged terrorist event or by an "unfortunate accident" where car brakes fail.

Or even someone has "assisted suicide" when they apparently jumped off a 20 story building.

This is where the line between legality and illegal actions enter into the realm of the darkest areas of Government.

As far as I am concerned.

Most people have mistaken me as anti-Government, which is wholly untrue, I am anti-corruption.

Government, is supposed to be a benign, functionary unit, protecting their citizens.

Both through foreign and domestic policy.

Not killing citizens or making them disappear into Abu Ghraib through extraordinary rendition.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Baghdad Central Prison

The Baghdad Central Prison, formerly known as Abu Ghraib prison (Arabic: سجن أبو غريب‎ Sijn Abu Ghuraib; also Abu Ghurayb, meaning 'father of the raven' or 'Place of Ravens') is in Abu Ghraib, an Iraqi city 32 km (20 mi) west of Baghdad.

It was built by British contractors in the 1950s.

Observers estimated that in 2001, the prison held as many as 15,000 inmates.

In 2002 Saddam's government began an expansion project to add six new cellblocks to the prison.

In October 2002, Saddam Hussein gave amnesty to most prisoners in Iraq.

After the prisoners were released and the prison was left empty, it was vandalized and looted.

Almost all of the documents relating to prisoners were piled and burnt inside of prison offices and cells, leading to extensive structural damage.

After years of shared use by United States-led forces and the Iraqi government beginning in 2003 after the Iraq Invasion, on September 2, 2006 the US transferred the prison to complete control of the Iraqis.

Sorry, but there is just something despicable about American citizens being snatched, in the dark of night.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Extraordinary Rendition by the United States

Extraordinary rendition and irregular rendition describe the abduction and extrajudicial transfer of a person from one nation to another.

"Torture by proxy" is used by some critics to describe situations in which the United States has transferred suspected terrorists to countries known to practice torture.

It is alleged that the CIA runs a secret global abduction and internment operation of suspected terrorists, known as “extraordinary rendition”, which since 2001 has captured about 3,000 people and transported them around the world.

It has been alleged that torture has been employed with the knowledge or acquiescence of the Governments of the United States and the United Kingdom.

Condoleezza Rice, then United States Secretary of State, said in an April 2006 radio interview that the United States does not transfer people to places where it is known they will be tortured.

The US program prompted several official investigations in Europe into alleged secret detentions and unlawful inter-state transfers involving Council of Europe member states.

June 2006 report from the Council of Europe estimated 100 people had been kidnapped by the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) on EU territory (with the cooperation of Council of Europe members), and rendered to other countries, often after having transited through secret detention centers ("black sites") used by the CIA, some sited in Europe.

According to the separate European Parliament report of February 2007, the CIA has conducted 1,245 flights, many of them to destinations where suspects could face torture, in violation of article 3 of the United Nations Convention Against Torture.

A large majority of the European Union Parliament endorsed the report's conclusion that many member states tolerated illegal actions of the CIA and criticized several European governments and intelligence agencies for their unwillingness to cooperate with the investigation.

Within days of his inauguration, President Obama signed an Executive Order opposing rendition torture and establishing a task force to provide recommendations about processes to prevent rendition torture.

It makes my blood boil that our country would ever consider authorizing this against American citizens.

Treason Via Proxy : It Takes Two To Tango, Refuse To Dance, and Stop the False Flag Operation

I bring this up in this thread because it was happening right in plain sight in airports not long ago.

Rendition Trailer

Most people miss the fact that the movie Rendition was based on an actual person.

Ghost Plane: The True Story of the CIA Rendition and Torture Program

Amazon Review :

On June 10th, 2002, Attorney General John Ashcroft announced that the US had captured a known terrorist who was exploring a plan to explode a "dirty bomb" on American soil.

That alleged terrorist was José Padilla who was finally charged in 2005 with conspiracy to murder.

What Ashcroft didn't talk about was how information against him was obtained – by the relentless torture of one man-- Binyam Mohamed, in the name of the United States.

Arrested at Karachi Airport before Padilla’s arrest on April 10, 2002, Mohamed was put on a luxury executive jet and flown to an interrogation center in Morocco.

For over 18 months, he was subjected to one torture after another:

Beating followed beating and, then, his guards produced razor blades and began to split the skin all over his body, including on his genitals.

Since 1997, hundreds of people, many of whom have no ties to terrorist organizations, have been abducted from foreign airports or street corners on suspicions based at times on the flimsiest of evidence courtesy of the United States Central Intelligence Agency.

In Ghost Plane, Stephen Grey tells the true story of the CIA's torture program known by the euphemism "extraordinary rendition" and the airplanes that make the program run.

Begun during the Clinton administration, but taking a decidedly more voracious turn after 9/11, the rendition system has seen the transfer of more than 1000 prisoners into jails stretching from Guantanamo to Syria, from Kabul to Bangkok and beyond.

Grey had access to the thousands of CIA flight records and has interviewed dozens of sources from the most senior levels of the National Security Council to the CIA.

In Ghost Plane, he paints a disturbing picture of the War on Terror that reaches to the highest levels of power in Washington, D.C. and exposes the extreme ethical corruption at the heart of this US government program, a program finally acknowledged by President George Bush in September 2006, undertaken in the name of the citizens of the United States.

Underlined by SKL

The above books goes into all of the detail of the entire program and the man who that movie is based upon.

Since you brought up the "Ag Cartel", the United States Department of Agriculture, I will delve into that a bit, considering it involves both the this entire premise of my thread through the largesse and inept Food and Drug Administration.

Quote from : Food and Drug Administration

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA or USFDA) is an agency of the United States Department of Health and Human Services, one of the United States federal executive departments, responsible for protecting and promoting public health through the regulation and supervision of food safety, tobacco products, dietary supplements, prescription and over-the-counter pharmaceutical drugs (medications), vaccines, biopharmaceuticals, blood transfusions, medical devices, electromagnetic radiation emitting devices (ERED), veterinary products, and cosmetics.

The FDA also enforces other laws, notably Section 361 of the Public Health Service Act and associated regulations, many of which are not directly related to food or drugs.

These include sanitation requirements on interstate travel and control of disease on products ranging from certain household pets to sperm donation for assisted reproduction.

The FDA is led by the Commissioner of Food and Drugs, appointed by the President with the advice and consent of the Senate.

The Commissioner reports to the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

The 21st and current Commissioner is Dr. Margaret A. Hamburg.

She has served as Commissioner since February 2009.

The FDA has its headquarters at Silver Spring, Maryland and has 223 field offices and 13 laboratories located throughout the 50 states, the United States Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico.

In 2008, the FDA started opening offices in foreign countries, including China, India, Costa Rica, Chile, Belgium, and the United Kingdom.

Underlined by SKL

All of the underlined parts above are in relation to this particular asepct of the law.

Quote from : Title 42 of the United States Code

Title 42 of the United States Code is the title of the United States Code dealing with public health, social welfare, and civil rights.

Take a gander at all that it covers and you will see how this concerns many American citizens.

From a U.S.D.A. document :

Quote from : U.S.D.A. - Supply Chain Basics : Technology : How Much, How Soon : Page 13

RFID technology is not new; it was invented in 1948 by the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD).

It is already used in many applications including:

Electronic Toll Collection (ETC)
Rail car identification and tracking
Intermodal container identification
Access control
Animal identification
Automobile immobilizing

If you remember my post about the corporation, Destron Fearing and the date 1945 as their inception?

This corroborates everything I've been saying all along about process towards pushing this agenda.

But if you read the fine print on the bottom of page 13 you see this tidbit.

Quote from : U.S.D.A. - Supply Chain Basics : Technology : How Much, How Soon : Page 13

Source: Alien Technology Corporation

This is the same corporation which is producing this is it not?

This corporation correct?

Quote from : Wikipedia : Alien Technology

Alien Technology is a manufacturer of RFID technology.

The company is headquartered in Morgan Hill, California, with a RFID tag manufacturing facility in Fargo, North Dakota, the Alien RFID Solutions Center, in the Dayton, Ohio area, and sales offices in the U.S., Europe and Asia.

It currently employs approximately 235 people.

Alien produces (EPC) Class 1 and Class 1 Gen 2 RFID inlays, tags and readers designed for use in manufacturing lines, warehouses, distribution centers, and retail stores.

Due to potential applications in a wide variety of mass-produced electronic devices, the company received funding and technical support from a number of other manufacturers, such as DuPont Displays and Philips Components.

The company has established relationships with Wal-Mart, the U.S. Department of Defense, The Gillette Company, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Unisys, VeriSign, Manhattan Associates, Microsoft, The Kennedy Group, Nashua Corporation, NCR Corporation, Zebra Technologies and Paxar.

If we dig deeper we find another piece of this puzzle.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Alien Tehcnology : History

Alien Technology was founded in 1994, but was conceived on the idea of making low-cost LCD screens.

They changed their manufacturing focus to RFID products and services in 2000.

From 1994 through 2000, Alien focused on continued development of Fluidic Self Assembly technology (FSA), invented at University of California, Berkeley by Prof. John S. Smith.

August — Began manufacturing of passive UHF RFID products, including tags and readers using FSA, in Morgan Hill, California.

October — Acquired all of the assets of Wave ID, a privately held company specializing in RFID technology development, via a corporate buy-out.

September — Stav Prodromou is named the Chief Executive Officer

January — Alien won an order from The Gillette Company for 500 million RFID tags.
February — North Dakota Senator Byron Dorgan issued a statement that Alien Technology would build a manufacturing plant in Fargo, North Dakota which could employ over 1,000 people with an annual payroll exceeding $50 million.

July — Announcement made that the North Dakota State University Research and Technology Park would be the site for the planned expansion of its manufacturing operations in North Dakota.

May — A temporary manufacturing facility, in Fargo, North Dakota was opened to refine the company's manufacturing line.

January — Alien acquired Quatrotec LLC, a provider of integration services for baggage handling and screening systems used by the air transportation industry.
May — The first High Speed Strap Attach Machine (HiSAM), the center of the company's manufacturing line, was delivered the temporary Fargo Facility.
August — Ground breaking of the main manufacturing plant in Fargo took place 2.
November — The RFID Solutions Center in Dayton, Ohio opens.
December — A Second HiSAM is ordered.

They went into business just prior to 9/11 which shows advance notice through their relationships.

I am speaking of specifically the Department of Defense, I.B.M., N.C.R., Verisign, and Manhattan Associates.

N.C.R. Corporation, or formerly National Cash Register, is where Thomas Watson got his start.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Thomas J Watson : N.C.R.

Watson had a newly-acquired NCR cash register in his butcher shop, for which he had to arrange new repayments.

On visiting NCR, he was determined to join the company, and, after a number of abortive attempts, he finally succeeded.

Led by John Patterson, NCR was then one of the leading selling organizations, and John J. Range, its Buffalo branch manager, became almost a father figure for Watson and was a model for his sales and management style.

Certainly in later years, in a 1952 interview, he claimed he learned more from Range than anyone else.

But at first, he was a poor salesman, until Range took him personally in hand.

Then he became the most successful salesman in the East, earning 100 US$ per week.

In 1899, aged 25, Watson was rewarded with the NCR agency for Rochester, one of NCR's smaller branches.

As an agent, he got 35% commission.

As a result of these techniques, which largely revolved around knocking the main competitor (Hallwood), in four years Watson made Rochester effectively an NCR monopoly.

As a reward he was called to the NCR head office in Dayton, Ohio.

He moved on from N.C.R.

Quote from : Wikipedia : Thomas J Watson : Head of I.B.M.

Watson joined the Computing Tabulating Recording Corporation (CTR) on May 1, 1914.

When Watson took over as general manager, the company produced $9 million in revenue and had more than 1300 employees.

In 1924, he renamed the company International Business Machines. Watson built IBM into such a dominant company that the federal government filed a civil antitrust suit against them in 1952.

IBM owned and leased to its customers more than 90 percent of all tabulating machines in the United States at the time. When Watson died in 1956, IBM's revenues were $897 million, and the company had 72,500 employees.

Throughout his life, Watson maintained a deep interest in international relations, both from a diplomatic and a business perspective.

He was known as President Roosevelt's un-official Ambassador in NY and often entertained foreign statesmen.

In 1937, he was elected president of the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC) and at that year's biennial congress in Berlin stated the conference keynote to be World Peace Through World Trade.

That phrase became the slogan of both the ICC and IBM.

Watson's merger of diplomacy and business was not always lauded.

During the 1930s, IBM's German subsidiary was IBM's most profitable foreign operation, and a recent book argues that Watson's pursuit of profit led him to personally approve and spearhead IBM's strategic technological relationship with the Third Reich.

In particular, critics point to the coveted Eagle with Star medal that Watson received at the Berlin ICCC meeting in 1937, as evidence that he was being honored for the help that IBM's German subsidiary Dehomag (Deutsche Hollerith-Maschinen Gesellschaft mbH) and its punch card machines provided the Nazi regime, particularly in the tabulation of census data.

The most recent study of the matter, however, argues that Watson believed, perhaps naively, that the medal was in recognition of his years of labor on behalf of global commerce and international peace.

Watson soon began second-guessing himself for accepting the medal, and eventually returned the medal to the German government in June 1940.

German Chancellor Adolf Hitler was furious at the slight, and he declared that Watson would never step on German-controlled soil again.

As anticipated, Dehomag went into revolt, its management decrying Watson's stupidity and openly wondering whether or not it would be best if the firm separated from its American owner.

The debate ended when Germany declared war on the United States in December, 1941, and the German government took custody of the Dehomag operation.

This is the same man as addressed in the book I.B.M. and the Holocaust which I referenced earlier.

IBM and the Holocaust: The Strategic Alliance Between Nazi Germany and America's Most Powerful Corporation

Amazon Review :

Was IBM, "The Solutions Company," partly responsible for the Final Solution?

That's the question raised by Edwin Black's IBM and the Holocaust, the most controversial book on the subject since Daniel Jonah Goldhagen's Hitler's Willing Executioners.

Black, a son of Holocaust survivors, is less tendentiously simplistic than Goldhagen, but his thesis is no less provocative: he argues that IBM founder Thomas Watson deserved the Merit Cross (Germany's second-highest honor) awarded him by Hitler, his second-biggest customer on earth.

"IBM, primarily through its German subsidiary, made Hitler's program of Jewish destruction a technologic mission the company pursued with chilling success," writes Black.

"IBM had almost single-handedly brought modern warfare into the information age [and] virtually put the 'blitz' in the krieg."

The crucial technology was a precursor to the computer, the IBM Hollerith punch card machine, which Black glimpsed on exhibit at the U.S. Holocaust Museum, inspiring his five-year, top-secret book project.

The Hollerith was used to tabulate and alphabetize census data.

Black says the Hollerith and its punch card data ("hole 3 signified homosexual ... hole 8 designated a Jew") was indispensable in rounding up prisoners, keeping the trains fully packed and on time, tallying the deaths, and organizing the entire war effort.

Hitler's regime was fantastically, suicidally chaotic; could IBM have been the cause of its sole competence: mass-murdering civilians?

Better scholars than I must sift through and appraise Black's mountainous evidence, but clearly the assessment is overdue.

The moral argument turns on one question: How much did IBM New York know about IBM Germany's work, and when?

Black documents a scary game of brinksmanship orchestrated by IBM chief Watson, who walked a fine line between enraging U.S. officials and infuriating Hitler.

He shamefully delayed returning the Nazi medal until forced to--and when he did return it, the Nazis almost kicked IBM and its crucial machines out of Germany.

(Hitler was prone to self-defeating decisions, as demonstrated in How Hitler Could Have Won World War II.)

Black has created a must-read work of history. But it's also a fascinating business book examining the colliding influences of personality, morality, and cold strategic calculation. --Tim Appelo

It makes me sick that people value money more than human life and shows how corporations mimic fascism.
edit on 12/6/10 by SpartanKingLeonidas because: Adding Depth and Insight Into the Post.

posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 02:54 PM
Very impressive OP, this is right on for truth. The nazi element is so strong in this as well, and I seemed to have touched base on this a few nights ago, it was like I was being influenced by the negatives that are guiding the elites and corporate heads and even some of the leaders, and I kept seeing images of Germany, of the Nazi's, kind of felt this negative presence, I think its tied in, and NASA, the entire space program, the black ops, the frequencies used, all of it.

But we do have a way to respond to this. to begin with, there is no power that negatives have over positives, if they are truly choosing to turn all negatives into positives, in their interactions with others, arguments, any retaliation, and whether or not we're christian, Jesus is a example of Higher Ups and how they behave in all situations. The best model we have, though i do not attend any church.

Do we retaliate? Do we fight in wars? How best to help others in our communities? The homeless? How best to speak up with dignity and say No without threats and retaliation on the leaders?

Negative has no power over positive, and they play this like the mason black and white dualistic checkerboard floor. As we overcome the negative, the dark squares in ourselves, we allign ourselves with progression, and Love, and we gain protection. We also pull in our Highest Good.

I also believe that all of this is preliminary to trying to force the microchip. I don't see it as the sign of the beast for even though I have mentioned Jesus, i don't follow the religions or scriputres, save the things that are higher consciousness within, common sense ones. What microchips are is NWO, slavery and control, and they're not good for you either, so we do have to say no.

The thing is, this world is a physical, well in energy = matter and matter = energy, denser energy streams in the matrix, this plane/school/world is in a state that reflects the group consciousness of the planet. It is a phsyical manifestation of global consciousness.

We need to focus on 1) transforming all negatives into positives 2) our biggest problems are in family, and relationships in our lives, but mirror out into the political landscape, so....learning how to be very mature, peaceful communicators, turning the other cheek and Love Love Love. 3) how do we make a difference as mature adults communicating to those in charge what we wish done and reflected, without being reactive?

If this continues it will be a lot harder on people to overcome negativity, to progress, to graduate from this school, so its important to see clearly and start to work on peaceful goals to overcome.

We probably already have nano bot technology versions of this microchip in food items, and vaccinations, even bloodwork, so we may be having an even harder time trying to overcome negativity.

I've already found overall most people acceptance or lack of protest over the things brought up very odd and surely its more than just flouide in the water.

This could very well be microchip nano technology in most of us, influenced by frequency directed at us through media and HAARP like transmitters.

posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 02:58 PM
It is sad, most people do not seem to even realize we are living a life of slavery. Work 9-5 every day, until we are too old to do it anymore. As long as people have a tv to watch, and a few shiny overpriced products, they seem to be complacent. They walk around with the illusion of freedom and safety, in their own little bubble world.

As for the TSA, I will not feed that beast. As much as I would like to see europe and asia, it is not worth being dehumanized. I wonder how long it will take before they start requiring the scanners at the canadian border?

posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 04:24 PM
Excellent thread, very well researched S&F Sorry, I probably cannot match some of the excellent posts on here and some of the in-depth research, but I have made quite a few comments on the various TSA threads that have been popping up and totally agree with the OP that it is designed to remove freedom from individuals and make them submissive, under the guise of "safety"

Sadly though, so many people are brainwashed by the MSM and have absolutely no idea what is really going, they will follow blindly what they are told in the press and on TV.

I am in the UK and I am becoming so disillusioned with the constant intrusion into our lives, like the poster from the Netherlands, we are subject to many of the same surveilance, being part of the European Union, which dictates so many aspects of our lives that it is truly frightening. My passport was issued in 2001 (pre 9/11, in fact I had gone to Paris with my daughter on the 10th September and got caught up in the "Clear skies" situation on the 13th coming home - what a nightmare!!) so my passport has not been renewed yet, but as child passports have to be renewed every 5 years, my daughter's new one is one of the "chipped" passports and if we want to fly anywhere, even within the UK we need to have a passport.

The RFID chip thing is constantly encroaching in our lives, there is the case of local government placing them in our refuse bins (we have 3 bins each, one for general trash, one for recyclables and one for garden waste) with the intention of levying a tax or even fining people who were not using their bins appropriately! RFID chips in bins We are constantly monitored on CCTV and also have roadside cameras with number plate recognition under the guise of Average Speed cameras, in fact the main road leading from where I live is quoted in this wiki article as having the most prolific use of them...and it's true I can attest to that, driving the road almost every day!

The problem with the population is that they seem to be far more concerned with who is on the X Factor, and in getting their latest designer gear and reading about celebrity gossip and so-called journalists all seem to be complicit in this "dumbing down" of society. Sorry but this is very off topic but does relate to the RFID chips, is a case I've been following since 2007, the disappearance of Madeleine McCann, there are even threads on here about it, and strangely enough there were many posters on here, who fell hook, line and sinker for the "official" abduction story and fell into the "poor parents" trap even though there was no evidence of abduction, but plenty of evidence of a dead body in the apartment the child went missing from. The official case files were even released by the Portuguese police, which point most definitely to the parents involvement, but still the media and TPTB defend these parents wholeheartdley, decrying everyone who posts on forums, suspecting the involvement of the parents as a "vociferous minority of nutters" The child's father Gerry McCann even went to Washington to discuss the "wider agenda" of missing children and then the whole topic of using RFID technology to "keep our children safe" became a hot topic implanting chips to keep children safe and considering that the number of children abducted by strangers has not risen in all the years that records have been kept, it seemed that this case was being used to highlight the cause for the chips - very frightening, because of course as usual, this won't actually prevent children being abducted and murdered, but they are traceable for the rest of their lives..

So I'm not really sure how the public can be made aware of what is truly happening to them and that they are willingly giving up more and more of their freedom, but I most certainly agree that they should be.

posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 04:50 PM

Originally posted by TKDRL
It is sad, most people do not seem to even realize we are living a life of slavery. Work 9-5 every day, until we are too old to do it anymore. As long as people have a tv to watch, and a few shiny overpriced products, they seem to be complacent. They walk around with the illusion of freedom and safety, in their own little bubble world.

As for the TSA, I will not feed that beast. As much as I would like to see europe and asia, it is not worth being dehumanized. I wonder how long it will take before they start requiring the scanners at the canadian border?

I infer from your post that you live in the US or Canada. In which case you are, like me who lives in western europe, privileged.

You say you would like to see europe and asia from which it is apparent that you haven't travelled much.

I would suggest to you that before you equate working 9-5 as slavery and rubbish the " shiny overpriced products" and freedoms of the west you do a bit of travelling in the third world and get an idea from the people living there of how hard done by they think you are.

posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 05:20 PM
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posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 05:34 PM
reply to post by Alfie1

So you don't mind the local council spying on the rubbish you put in your wheelie bin then? And I think the poster was alluding to all the cr4p that we don't actually need, but are constantly bombarded by the MSM to buy.

And as for people in third world countries, yes I agree it is shocking that people are still starving today and have no clean water, but don't you think that if our governments really wanted this to stop that they couldn't in an instant? No, they care more about preserving the status quo and will only used armed force to change regimes when they threaten the western way of living (or if we want to steal their oil!) not to ensure equality for all inhabitants of the world. They want to spend tax money on full body scanners to invade our privacy and net themselves a nice little profit as they own the companies supplying the scanners. They don't care about the starving people in the third world, in fact it suits them because it keeps the rest of us quiet "oh think yourselves lucky you don't live like that" type diatribes and you just fell right into the trap!

posted on Dec, 6 2010 @ 05:56 PM

Originally posted by destination now
reply to post by Alfie1

So you don't mind the local council spying on the rubbish you put in your wheelie bin then? And I think the poster was alluding to all the cr4p that we don't actually need, but are constantly bombarded by the MSM to buy.

And as for people in third world countries, yes I agree it is shocking that people are still starving today and have no clean water, but don't you think that if our governments really wanted this to stop that they couldn't in an instant? No, they care more about preserving the status quo and will only used armed force to change regimes when they threaten the western way of living (or if we want to steal their oil!) not to ensure equality for all inhabitants of the world. They want to spend tax money on full body scanners to invade our privacy and net themselves a nice little profit as they own the companies supplying the scanners. They don't care about the starving people in the third world, in fact it suits them because it keeps the rest of us quiet "oh think yourselves lucky you don't live like that" type diatribes and you just fell right into the trap!

I'm sorry but I don't know what problem you are having with your rubbish in Scotland but it is not affecting me. In any event it doesn't sound like the end of the world.

Scanners and security at airports are a pain in the butt. If all passengers were like me, and you I expect, we could all pile on carrying what we like. Unfortunately, the world isn't like that anymore and I would rather take my shoes off and put my metal objects in a tray than be blown up or hi-jacked.

I think the west stealing oil allegation is nonsense. There is no evidence that the UK or US has benefited from any free Iraq oil and the huge cost of military operations could have bought vast amounts of oil.

I say again, if you have so much angst with the west; go and talk to an Indian tea-picker who gets £1 for a 12 hour day and would love a glimpse of a tv.

posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 01:23 AM
Airport security measures should be followed as long as innocent people are not disrespected and embarrassed as a result of this. Of course they will face slight troubles as it is time consuming and boring too. But as mentioned in the news and ATS threads, the security personnels do not have regard for people's modesty and are rude at times. Afterall they are not saints, though they are normal humans and should know that much. One would wonder if this is really necessary....aren't there more agreeable ways to ensure security?

Originally posted by Alfie1
I say again, if you have so much angst with the west; go and talk to an Indian tea-picker who gets £1 for a 12 hour day and would love a glimpse of a tv.

that's very true....

posted on Dec, 7 2010 @ 01:43 AM
reply to post by Alfie1

You obviously didn't actually read the links then! It is local authorities in England doing the snooping, so it is more likely to affect you in Cornwall.

How many aircraft leaving from the UK have been blown up by terrorists, since commercial flights began?

No, the oil isn't free, foreign companies took over the Iraqi oilfields, with the intention that the Iraqi's would gain the revenue for reconstruction of their country, but the last I heard, that wasn't actually happening and billions of dollars have just disappeared US unable to account for billions of dollars

Do you drink tea? If yes, then you are part of the problem! Yet again, the large corporations paying peanuts to the producers and making a nice profit themselves.

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