It looks like you're using an Ad Blocker.
Please white-list or disable AboveTopSecret.com in your ad-blocking tool.
Some features of ATS will be disabled while you continue to use an ad-blocker.
Amazon Review :
Steve Coll's Ghost Wars:
The Secret History of the CIA, Afghanistan, and Bin Laden, from the Soviet Invasion to September 10, 2001 offers revealing details of the CIA's involvement in the evolution of the Taliban and Al Qaeda in the years before the September 11 attacks.
From the beginning, Coll shows how the CIA's on-again, off-again engagement with Afghanistan after the end of the Soviet war left officials at Langley with inadequate resources and intelligence to appreciate the emerging power of the Taliban.
He also demonstrates how Afghanistan became a deadly playing field for international politics where Soviet, Pakistani, and U.S. agents armed and trained a succession of warring factions.
At the same time, the book, though opinionated, is not solely a critique of the agency.
Coll balances accounts of CIA failures with the success stories, like the capture of Mir Amal Kasi.
Coll, managing editor for the Washington Post, covered Afghanistan from 1989 to 1992.
He demonstrates unprecedented access to records of White House meetings and to formerly classified material, and his command of Saudi, Pakistani, and Afghani politics is impressive.
He also provides a seeming insider's perspective on personalities like George Tenet, William Casey, and anti-terrorism czar, Richard Clarke ("who seemed to wield enormous power precisely because hardly anyone knew who he was or what exactly he did for a living").
Coll manages to weave his research into a narrative that sometimes has the feel of a Tom Clancy novel yet never crosses into excess.
While comprehensive, Coll's book may be hard going for those looking for a direct account of the events leading to the 9-11 attacks.
The CIA's 1998 engagement with bin Laden as a target for capture begins a full two-thirds of the way into Ghost Wars, only after a lengthy march through developments during the Carter, Reagan, and early Clinton Presidencies.
But this is not a critique of Coll's efforts; just a warning that some stamina is required to keep up.
Ghost Wars is a complex study of intelligence operations and an invaluable resource for those seeking a nuanced understanding of how a small band of extremists rose to inflict incalculable damage on American soil.
Publishers Weekly :
The bin Ladens are famous for spawning the world's foremost terrorist and building one of the Middle East's foremost corporate dynasties.
Pulitzer Prize–winner Coll (Ghost Wars) delivers a sprawling history of the multifaceted clan, paying special attention to its two most emblematic members.
Patriarch Mohamed's eldest son, Salem, was a caricature of the self-indulgent plutocrat: a flamboyant jet-setter dependent on the Saudi monarchy, obsessed with all things motorized (he died crashing his plane after a day's joy-riding atop motorcycle and dune-buggy) and forever tormenting his entourage with off-key karaoke.
Coll presents quite a contrast with an unusually nuanced profile of Salem's half-brother Osama, a shy, austere, devout man who nonetheless shares Salem's egomania.
Other bin Ladens crowd Coll's narrative with the eye-glazing details of their murky business deals, messy divorces and ill-advised perfume lines and pop CDs.
Beneath the clutter one discerns an engrossing portrait of a family torn between tradition and modernity, conformism and self-actualization, and desperately in search of its soul.
(April 1) Copyright © Reed Business Information, a division of Reed Elsevier Inc.
All rights reserved.
Quote from : Wikipedia : International Court of Justice
The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations.
It is based in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands.
Its main functions are to settle legal disputes submitted to it by states and to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies, and the UN General Assembly.
The ICJ should not be confused with the International Criminal Court, which potentially also has global jurisdiction.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Ron Brown : Death
On April 3, 1996, while on an official trade mission, the Air Force CT-43 (a modified Boeing 737) carrying Brown and 34 other people, including New York Times Frankfurt Bureau chief Nathaniel C. Nash, crashed in Croatia.
While attempting an instrument approach to Čilipi airport, the airplane crashed into a mountainside.
Everyone aboard was killed instantly except Air Force Tech. Sgt. Shelley Kelly, a flight attendant, who died while being transported to a hospital.
The final Air Force investigation attributed the crash to pilot error and a poorly designed landing approach.
Speculations as to the circumstances surrounding the plane crash that caused Brown's death include many government cover-up and conspiracy theories, largely based on Brown having been under investigation by independent counsel for corruption.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Geotagging
Geotagging is the process of adding geographical identification metadata to various media such as photographs, video, websites, SMS messages, or RSS feeds and is a form of geospatial metadata.
These data usually consist of latitude and longitude coordinates, though they can also include altitude, bearing, distance, accuracy data, and place names.
It is commonly used for photographs, giving geotagged photographs.
Geotagging can help users find a wide variety of location-specific information.
For instance, one can find images taken near a given location by entering latitude and longitude coordinates into a suitable image search engine.
Geotagging-enabled information services can also potentially be used to find location-based news, websites, or other resources.
Geotagging can tell users the location of the content of a given picture or other media or the point of view, and conversely on some media platforms show media relevant to a given location.
The related term geocoding refers to the process of taking non-coordinate based geographical identifiers, such as a street address, and finding associated geographic coordinates (or vice versa for reverse geocoding).
Such techniques can be used together with geotagging to provide alternative search techniques.
Originally posted by SpartanKingLeonidas
reply to post by truthseeker1984
Our own behaviors are easily manipulated by those controlling the broadcast of information in society.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Stovepiping
Stovepiping is a metaphorical term which recalls a stovepipe's function as an isolated vertical conduit, and has been used, in the context of intelligence, to describe several ways in which raw intelligence information may be presented without proper context.
The lack of context may be due to the specialized nature, or security requirements, of a particular intelligence collection technology.
Alternatively, the lack of context may come from a particular group, in the national policy structure, selectively presenting only that information that supports certain conclusions.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Institutional Knowledge
Institutional memory is a collective set of facts, concepts, experiences and know-how held by a group of people.
As it transcends the individual, it requires the ongoing transmission of these memories between members of this group.
Elements of institutional memory may be found in corporations, professional groups, government bodies, religious groups, academic collaborations and by extension in entire cultures.
Institutional memory may be encouraged to preserve an ideology or way of work in such a group.
Conversely, institutional memory may be ingrained to the point that it becomes hard to challenge if something is found to contradict that which was previously thought to have been correct.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Psychological Operations (United States)
Psychological operations are planned operations to convey selected information and indicators to foreign audiences to influence their emotions, motives, objective reasoning, and ultimately the behaviour of foreign governments, organisations, groups, and individuals.
The purpose of United States psychological operations (PSYOP) is to induce or reinforce behaviour favourable to US objectives.
They are an important part of the range of diplomatic, informational, military, and economic activities available to the US.
They can be utilised during both peacetime and conflict.
There are three main types: strategic, operational, and tactical.
Strategic PSYOP include informational activities conducted by the US government agencies outside of the military arena, though many utilise Department of Defense (DOD) assets.
Operational PSYOP are conducted across the range of military operations, including during peacetime, in a defined operational area to promote the effectiveness of the joint force commander's (JFC) campaigns and strategies.
Tactical PSYOP are conducted in the area assigned to a tactical commander across the range of military operations to support the tactical mission against opposing forces.
Underlined by SKL
I have to disagree with your reply to Jean Paul Zodeaux on a few key elements.
I do not believe the events of 9/11 are unprovable by any means whatsoever....
...I am an unpaid volunteer for STOP [ www.safetables.org...]
Deadly pathogens do not discriminate based on the size of a business. They can and do contaminate foods from the tiniest to the largest producers and processors....
Furthermore, one could argue that larger entities would practice stricter contamination prevention-strategies because they can cause more damage and because they have a larger public profile and therefore can be identified if a food-borne illness outbreak occurs....
This sentence right here says volumes...
..Republican pollster Frank Luntz says "Stan Greenberg scares the hell out of me. He doesn't just have a finger on the people's pulse; he's got an IV injected into it.” ilf.ndi.org...
Motto: "Before becoming history and even before taking place, a lot of major events are prepared in laboratories" www.ziua.net...
“... Over the last quarter-century, historians have by and large ceased writing about the role of ruling elites in the country's evolution. Or if they have taken up the subject, they have done so to argue against its salience for grasping the essentials of American political history. Yet there is something peculiar about this recent intellectual aversion...
This aversion has coincided, after all, with one of the largest and fastest-growing disparities in the division of income and wealth in American history....Neglecting the powerful had not been characteristic of historical work before World War II. ” hnn.us...
...The work ethic in this country is appalling, just as much as the corporate abuse of workers with crappy pay, just as much as oversight is a joke because it only compounds issues usually because people begin hiding their wrongdoings. It is endemic of Government work too because once you're hired for a Government job it is almost impossible to get fired unless you get in a newspaper story committing a major crime due to the stovepipe mentality within Government....
Legislators overlook serious flaw in USDA’s HACCP food-safety system—while promoting its adoption by FDA
...when USDA “officials initially described HACCP to the industry in the mid-90’s, the agency made the following enticing promises:
* “Under HACCP, the agency will implement a ‘Hands Off’ role in meat inspection.
* “Under HACCP, the agency will no longer police the industry, but the industry will police itself.
* “Under HACCP, the agency will disband its previous command and control authority.
* “Under HACCP, each plant will write its own HACCP Plan, and the agency cannot tell plants what must be in their HACCP Plans.”
...As a result, the inspector was no longer responsible for what was happening on the plant floor: that was left to company personnel. The new role of the inspector was to make sure that plant personnel were carrying out their duties in a manner consistent with the HACCP plan. In many cases this amounted to making sure that all of the paper work was in the proper order....
Quote from : Wikipedia : Baghdad Central Prison
The Baghdad Central Prison, formerly known as Abu Ghraib prison (Arabic: سجن أبو غريب Sijn Abu Ghuraib; also Abu Ghurayb, meaning 'father of the raven' or 'Place of Ravens') is in Abu Ghraib, an Iraqi city 32 km (20 mi) west of Baghdad.
It was built by British contractors in the 1950s.
Observers estimated that in 2001, the prison held as many as 15,000 inmates.
In 2002 Saddam's government began an expansion project to add six new cellblocks to the prison.
In October 2002, Saddam Hussein gave amnesty to most prisoners in Iraq.
After the prisoners were released and the prison was left empty, it was vandalized and looted.
Almost all of the documents relating to prisoners were piled and burnt inside of prison offices and cells, leading to extensive structural damage.
After years of shared use by United States-led forces and the Iraqi government beginning in 2003 after the Iraq Invasion, on September 2, 2006 the US transferred the prison to complete control of the Iraqis.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Extraordinary Rendition by the United States
Extraordinary rendition and irregular rendition describe the abduction and extrajudicial transfer of a person from one nation to another.
"Torture by proxy" is used by some critics to describe situations in which the United States has transferred suspected terrorists to countries known to practice torture.
It is alleged that the CIA runs a secret global abduction and internment operation of suspected terrorists, known as “extraordinary rendition”, which since 2001 has captured about 3,000 people and transported them around the world.
It has been alleged that torture has been employed with the knowledge or acquiescence of the Governments of the United States and the United Kingdom.
Condoleezza Rice, then United States Secretary of State, said in an April 2006 radio interview that the United States does not transfer people to places where it is known they will be tortured.
The US program prompted several official investigations in Europe into alleged secret detentions and unlawful inter-state transfers involving Council of Europe member states.
June 2006 report from the Council of Europe estimated 100 people had been kidnapped by the United States' Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) on EU territory (with the cooperation of Council of Europe members), and rendered to other countries, often after having transited through secret detention centers ("black sites") used by the CIA, some sited in Europe.
According to the separate European Parliament report of February 2007, the CIA has conducted 1,245 flights, many of them to destinations where suspects could face torture, in violation of article 3 of the United Nations Convention Against Torture.
A large majority of the European Union Parliament endorsed the report's conclusion that many member states tolerated illegal actions of the CIA and criticized several European governments and intelligence agencies for their unwillingness to cooperate with the investigation.
Within days of his inauguration, President Obama signed an Executive Order opposing rendition torture and establishing a task force to provide recommendations about processes to prevent rendition torture.
Amazon Review :
On June 10th, 2002, Attorney General John Ashcroft announced that the US had captured a known terrorist who was exploring a plan to explode a "dirty bomb" on American soil.
That alleged terrorist was José Padilla who was finally charged in 2005 with conspiracy to murder.
What Ashcroft didn't talk about was how information against him was obtained – by the relentless torture of one man-- Binyam Mohamed, in the name of the United States.
Arrested at Karachi Airport before Padilla’s arrest on April 10, 2002, Mohamed was put on a luxury executive jet and flown to an interrogation center in Morocco.
For over 18 months, he was subjected to one torture after another:
Beating followed beating and, then, his guards produced razor blades and began to split the skin all over his body, including on his genitals.
Since 1997, hundreds of people, many of whom have no ties to terrorist organizations, have been abducted from foreign airports or street corners on suspicions based at times on the flimsiest of evidence courtesy of the United States Central Intelligence Agency.
In Ghost Plane, Stephen Grey tells the true story of the CIA's torture program known by the euphemism "extraordinary rendition" and the airplanes that make the program run.
Begun during the Clinton administration, but taking a decidedly more voracious turn after 9/11, the rendition system has seen the transfer of more than 1000 prisoners into jails stretching from Guantanamo to Syria, from Kabul to Bangkok and beyond.
Grey had access to the thousands of CIA flight records and has interviewed dozens of sources from the most senior levels of the National Security Council to the CIA.
In Ghost Plane, he paints a disturbing picture of the War on Terror that reaches to the highest levels of power in Washington, D.C. and exposes the extreme ethical corruption at the heart of this US government program, a program finally acknowledged by President George Bush in September 2006, undertaken in the name of the citizens of the United States.
Underlined by SKL
Quote from : Food and Drug Administration
The Food and Drug Administration (FDA or USFDA) is an agency of the United States Department of Health and Human Services, one of the United States federal executive departments, responsible for protecting and promoting public health through the regulation and supervision of food safety, tobacco products, dietary supplements, prescription and over-the-counter pharmaceutical drugs (medications), vaccines, biopharmaceuticals, blood transfusions, medical devices, electromagnetic radiation emitting devices (ERED), veterinary products, and cosmetics.
The FDA also enforces other laws, notably Section 361 of the Public Health Service Act and associated regulations, many of which are not directly related to food or drugs.
These include sanitation requirements on interstate travel and control of disease on products ranging from certain household pets to sperm donation for assisted reproduction.
The FDA is led by the Commissioner of Food and Drugs, appointed by the President with the advice and consent of the Senate.
The Commissioner reports to the Secretary of Health and Human Services.
The 21st and current Commissioner is Dr. Margaret A. Hamburg.
She has served as Commissioner since February 2009.
The FDA has its headquarters at Silver Spring, Maryland and has 223 field offices and 13 laboratories located throughout the 50 states, the United States Virgin Islands, and Puerto Rico.
In 2008, the FDA started opening offices in foreign countries, including China, India, Costa Rica, Chile, Belgium, and the United Kingdom.
Underlined by SKL
Quote from : Title 42 of the United States Code
Title 42 of the United States Code is the title of the United States Code dealing with public health, social welfare, and civil rights.
Quote from : U.S.D.A. - Supply Chain Basics : Technology : How Much, How Soon : Page 13
RFID technology is not new; it was invented in 1948 by the U.S. Department of Defense (DoD).
It is already used in many applications including:
Electronic Toll Collection (ETC)
Rail car identification and tracking
Intermodal container identification
Quote from : U.S.D.A. - Supply Chain Basics : Technology : How Much, How Soon : Page 13
Source: Alien Technology Corporation
Quote from : Wikipedia : Alien Technology
Alien Technology is a manufacturer of RFID technology.
The company is headquartered in Morgan Hill, California, with a RFID tag manufacturing facility in Fargo, North Dakota, the Alien RFID Solutions Center, in the Dayton, Ohio area, and sales offices in the U.S., Europe and Asia.
It currently employs approximately 235 people.
Alien produces (EPC) Class 1 and Class 1 Gen 2 RFID inlays, tags and readers designed for use in manufacturing lines, warehouses, distribution centers, and retail stores.
Due to potential applications in a wide variety of mass-produced electronic devices, the company received funding and technical support from a number of other manufacturers, such as DuPont Displays and Philips Components.
The company has established relationships with Wal-Mart, the U.S. Department of Defense, The Gillette Company, Hewlett-Packard, IBM, Unisys, VeriSign, Manhattan Associates, Microsoft, The Kennedy Group, Nashua Corporation, NCR Corporation, Zebra Technologies and Paxar.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Alien Tehcnology : History
Alien Technology was founded in 1994, but was conceived on the idea of making low-cost LCD screens.
They changed their manufacturing focus to RFID products and services in 2000.
From 1994 through 2000, Alien focused on continued development of Fluidic Self Assembly technology (FSA), invented at University of California, Berkeley by Prof. John S. Smith.
August — Began manufacturing of passive UHF RFID products, including tags and readers using FSA, in Morgan Hill, California.
October — Acquired all of the assets of Wave ID, a privately held company specializing in RFID technology development, via a corporate buy-out.
September — Stav Prodromou is named the Chief Executive Officer
January — Alien won an order from The Gillette Company for 500 million RFID tags.
February — North Dakota Senator Byron Dorgan issued a statement that Alien Technology would build a manufacturing plant in Fargo, North Dakota which could employ over 1,000 people with an annual payroll exceeding $50 million.
July — Announcement made that the North Dakota State University Research and Technology Park would be the site for the planned expansion of its manufacturing operations in North Dakota.
May — A temporary manufacturing facility, in Fargo, North Dakota was opened to refine the company's manufacturing line.
January — Alien acquired Quatrotec LLC, a provider of integration services for baggage handling and screening systems used by the air transportation industry.
May — The first High Speed Strap Attach Machine (HiSAM), the center of the company's manufacturing line, was delivered the temporary Fargo Facility.
August — Ground breaking of the main manufacturing plant in Fargo took place 2.
November — The RFID Solutions Center in Dayton, Ohio opens.
December — A Second HiSAM is ordered.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Thomas J Watson : N.C.R.
Watson had a newly-acquired NCR cash register in his butcher shop, for which he had to arrange new repayments.
On visiting NCR, he was determined to join the company, and, after a number of abortive attempts, he finally succeeded.
Led by John Patterson, NCR was then one of the leading selling organizations, and John J. Range, its Buffalo branch manager, became almost a father figure for Watson and was a model for his sales and management style.
Certainly in later years, in a 1952 interview, he claimed he learned more from Range than anyone else.
But at first, he was a poor salesman, until Range took him personally in hand.
Then he became the most successful salesman in the East, earning 100 US$ per week.
In 1899, aged 25, Watson was rewarded with the NCR agency for Rochester, one of NCR's smaller branches.
As an agent, he got 35% commission.
As a result of these techniques, which largely revolved around knocking the main competitor (Hallwood), in four years Watson made Rochester effectively an NCR monopoly.
As a reward he was called to the NCR head office in Dayton, Ohio.
Quote from : Wikipedia : Thomas J Watson : Head of I.B.M.
Watson joined the Computing Tabulating Recording Corporation (CTR) on May 1, 1914.
When Watson took over as general manager, the company produced $9 million in revenue and had more than 1300 employees.
In 1924, he renamed the company International Business Machines. Watson built IBM into such a dominant company that the federal government filed a civil antitrust suit against them in 1952.
IBM owned and leased to its customers more than 90 percent of all tabulating machines in the United States at the time. When Watson died in 1956, IBM's revenues were $897 million, and the company had 72,500 employees.
Throughout his life, Watson maintained a deep interest in international relations, both from a diplomatic and a business perspective.
He was known as President Roosevelt's un-official Ambassador in NY and often entertained foreign statesmen.
In 1937, he was elected president of the International Chamber of Commerce (ICC) and at that year's biennial congress in Berlin stated the conference keynote to be World Peace Through World Trade.
That phrase became the slogan of both the ICC and IBM.
Watson's merger of diplomacy and business was not always lauded.
During the 1930s, IBM's German subsidiary was IBM's most profitable foreign operation, and a recent book argues that Watson's pursuit of profit led him to personally approve and spearhead IBM's strategic technological relationship with the Third Reich.
In particular, critics point to the coveted Eagle with Star medal that Watson received at the Berlin ICCC meeting in 1937, as evidence that he was being honored for the help that IBM's German subsidiary Dehomag (Deutsche Hollerith-Maschinen Gesellschaft mbH) and its punch card machines provided the Nazi regime, particularly in the tabulation of census data.
The most recent study of the matter, however, argues that Watson believed, perhaps naively, that the medal was in recognition of his years of labor on behalf of global commerce and international peace.
Watson soon began second-guessing himself for accepting the medal, and eventually returned the medal to the German government in June 1940.
German Chancellor Adolf Hitler was furious at the slight, and he declared that Watson would never step on German-controlled soil again.
As anticipated, Dehomag went into revolt, its management decrying Watson's stupidity and openly wondering whether or not it would be best if the firm separated from its American owner.
The debate ended when Germany declared war on the United States in December, 1941, and the German government took custody of the Dehomag operation.
Amazon Review :
Was IBM, "The Solutions Company," partly responsible for the Final Solution?
That's the question raised by Edwin Black's IBM and the Holocaust, the most controversial book on the subject since Daniel Jonah Goldhagen's Hitler's Willing Executioners.
Black, a son of Holocaust survivors, is less tendentiously simplistic than Goldhagen, but his thesis is no less provocative: he argues that IBM founder Thomas Watson deserved the Merit Cross (Germany's second-highest honor) awarded him by Hitler, his second-biggest customer on earth.
"IBM, primarily through its German subsidiary, made Hitler's program of Jewish destruction a technologic mission the company pursued with chilling success," writes Black.
"IBM had almost single-handedly brought modern warfare into the information age [and] virtually put the 'blitz' in the krieg."
The crucial technology was a precursor to the computer, the IBM Hollerith punch card machine, which Black glimpsed on exhibit at the U.S. Holocaust Museum, inspiring his five-year, top-secret book project.
The Hollerith was used to tabulate and alphabetize census data.
Black says the Hollerith and its punch card data ("hole 3 signified homosexual ... hole 8 designated a Jew") was indispensable in rounding up prisoners, keeping the trains fully packed and on time, tallying the deaths, and organizing the entire war effort.
Hitler's regime was fantastically, suicidally chaotic; could IBM have been the cause of its sole competence: mass-murdering civilians?
Better scholars than I must sift through and appraise Black's mountainous evidence, but clearly the assessment is overdue.
The moral argument turns on one question: How much did IBM New York know about IBM Germany's work, and when?
Black documents a scary game of brinksmanship orchestrated by IBM chief Watson, who walked a fine line between enraging U.S. officials and infuriating Hitler.
He shamefully delayed returning the Nazi medal until forced to--and when he did return it, the Nazis almost kicked IBM and its crucial machines out of Germany.
(Hitler was prone to self-defeating decisions, as demonstrated in How Hitler Could Have Won World War II.)
Black has created a must-read work of history. But it's also a fascinating business book examining the colliding influences of personality, morality, and cold strategic calculation. --Tim Appelo
Originally posted by TKDRL
It is sad, most people do not seem to even realize we are living a life of slavery. Work 9-5 every day, until we are too old to do it anymore. As long as people have a tv to watch, and a few shiny overpriced products, they seem to be complacent. They walk around with the illusion of freedom and safety, in their own little bubble world.
As for the TSA, I will not feed that beast. As much as I would like to see europe and asia, it is not worth being dehumanized. I wonder how long it will take before they start requiring the scanners at the canadian border?
i) You will not use your membership in the Websites for any type of recruitment to any causes whatsoever. You will not Post, use the chat feature, use videos, or use the private message system to disseminate advertisements, chain letters, petitions, pyramid schemes, or any kind of solicitation for political action, social action, letter campaigns, or related online and/or offline coordinated actions of any kind.
Originally posted by destination now
reply to post by Alfie1
So you don't mind the local council spying on the rubbish you put in your wheelie bin then? And I think the poster was alluding to all the cr4p that we don't actually need, but are constantly bombarded by the MSM to buy.
And as for people in third world countries, yes I agree it is shocking that people are still starving today and have no clean water, but don't you think that if our governments really wanted this to stop that they couldn't in an instant? No, they care more about preserving the status quo and will only used armed force to change regimes when they threaten the western way of living (or if we want to steal their oil!) not to ensure equality for all inhabitants of the world. They want to spend tax money on full body scanners to invade our privacy and net themselves a nice little profit as they own the companies supplying the scanners. They don't care about the starving people in the third world, in fact it suits them because it keeps the rest of us quiet "oh think yourselves lucky you don't live like that" type diatribes and you just fell right into the trap!
Originally posted by Alfie1
I say again, if you have so much angst with the west; go and talk to an Indian tea-picker who gets £1 for a 12 hour day and would love a glimpse of a tv.