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GMO Food is a Scam. These people grow 1,000,000 pounds of food on 3 Acres!

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posted on Nov, 19 2010 @ 11:08 PM
reply to post by GlennCanady

Are you kidding me. What they are doing with this GMO stuff is NOT what man has been doing for thousands of years by selective breeding.

It's the exact same thing - just a more direct process allowing for more control and greater change in less time. You realize that Corn has nothing in common with its ancestral roots, correct?

The Tomato is another good example of this.

The only difference is that one change took place at random across the time span of thousands of years of cultivation, and the other was implanted directly.

Functionally, there is no difference.

They are inserting Roach genes and other insects into Salmon and then plan on releasing them into the wild. IN 40 years they say that all natural Salmon will be wiped out. Do you want to eat a Salmon that has had Insect genes inserted into it? If so, you should be a poster boy for GMO.

So, if I have no problem with something - I am therefor a tool?

I would like to see where they are inserting insect genes into salmon. I would also like to see who or what decided natural salmon populations would be obliterated within 40 years. That is an extreme estimate, if I do say so, myself.

It will destroy all our natural foods and kill us just like it kills the rats the fed the GMO corn to.

For you:

Patho-physiological profiles are unique for each GM crop/food, underlining the necessity for a case-by-case evaluation of their safety, as is largely admitted and agreed by regulators. It is not possible to make comments concerning any general, similar subchronic toxic effect for all GM foods. However, in the three GM maize varieties that formed the basis of this investigation, new side effects linked to the consumption of these cereals were revealed, which were sex- and often dose-dependent. Effects were mostly concentrated in kidney and liver function, the two major diet detoxification organs, but in detail differed with each GM type. In addition, some effects on heart, adrenal, spleen and blood cells were also frequently noted. As there normally exists sex differences in liver and kidney metabolism, the highly statistically significant disturbances in the function of these organs, seen between male and female rats, cannot be dismissed as biologically insignificant as has been proposed by others [4]. We therefore conclude that our data strongly suggests that these GM maize varieties induce a state of hepatorenal toxicity. This can be due to the new pesticides (herbicide or insecticide) present specifically in each type of GM maize, although unintended metabolic effects due to the mutagenic properties of the GM transformation process cannot be excluded [42]. All three GM maize varieties contain a distinctly different pesticide residue associated with their particular GM event (glyphosate and AMPA in NK 603, modified Cry1Ab in MON 810, modified Cry3Bb1 in MON 863). These substances have never before been an integral part of the human or animal diet and therefore their health consequences for those who consume them, especially over long time periods are currently unknown. Furthermore, any side effect linked to the GM event will be unique in each case as the site of transgene insertion and the spectrum of genome wide mutations will differ between the three modified maize types. In conclusion, our data presented here strongly recommend that additional long-term (up to 2 years) animal feeding studies be performed in at least three species, preferably also multi-generational, to provide true scientifically valid data on the acute and chronic toxic effects of GM crops, feed and foods. Our analysis highlights that the kidneys and liver as particularly important on which to focus such research as there was a clear negative impact on the function of these organs in rats consuming GM maize varieties for just 90 days.

"Aim, this proves my point!"

It also proves mine. The effects of this stuff on humans and other animals is simply not known. Mice and smaller animals eat far more food pound-per-pound than humans do. This means a nominal diet will result in considerably higher chemical concentrations in mice than in humans. As I have also mentioned - a number of our body's functions are far superior to those of many other animals, including the metabolizing of toxins.

I can feed you ten chocolate bars a day and you will not die from caffeine overdose or hypoglycemia. Your dog, cat, mouse, etc will (even after adjusting dosage to weight). This is a considerable factor in all of these tests. For whatever strange reason - our bodies seem incredibly resilient to toxins that most other animals find simply intolerable.

reply to post by Northwarden

You may be knowledgeable about agriculture, but you don't hold a monopoly on that by a long shot. You choose the hardiest wild varieties of seed you can find, and actually ensure there is no genetic modification already in place.

I do not believe I have seen many varieties of "wild corn" or "wild tomatoes." Much less would I see a point in attempting to eat them or plant them across the nation. Now "organic" varieties are much more sensible - but those require cultivation.

In the end - there are always going to be people who want to avoid genetically engineered crops, and the market appealing to those people will always exist.

In other words, no Monsanto stamps of approval, or their imitators. The seeds do not need to be in a berry, rather, the seeds are molded into clay pellets, which then shoot their roots down upon contact with soil. There is a valuable field guide called the "One Straw Revolution" that details much about Chinese agriculture, and this method of seeding is surefire.

Surefire seeding.... a great way to market a book of agricultural wisdom.

So is their advocation of not tilling soil, which constantly exposes the micro-organisms to sunlight and kills them off, year after year. Western agriculture tends to be a monkey-see, monkey-do process, and it is far from the best way. The proof was in seeing un-tilled fields full of some of the richest soil in the world, after thousands of years of crops being grown. This is compared to plots in SA which were tilled for over five thousand years - the soil had turned to sand. I could go on ...

There are always agricultural philosophies. Tilling the soil works just fine so long as you fertilize and keep it to a minimum. Plowing is essential for the prevention of pests - you always plow the roots up to expose them to the cold winter air for a few weeks before plowing the whole works under.

I am sure this debate could rage on for pages - but it also depends largely upon the crops. Western agriculture has always focused on heavy feeders like corn, soy, cotton, tomatoes, etc. I am interested in looking into the "eastern" philosophies of agriculture, and will in due time (gardening is a hobby of mine that is somewhat strange considering my techno-industrial skill sets and mentality).

I'm not saying use weakened, cultivated varieties, I'll suggest finding the best and hardiest strains for any kind of aerial sowing project.

What for, though? In all honesty, I would rather see community farms maintained by volunteers or those on unemployment or some other government benefit program. The food grown and preserved would be available to people on those programs and excess donated to various charities.

Using non-terminating crops and establishing a community seed bank would also be a pretty cool idea.

It sounds better than just spitting wild seeds at random for reasons I'm not entirely understanding.

reply to post by Dasher

While I appreciate the mood and intentions of your words, you are missing a crucial understanding. Just as you can see through false scientific methods, you should also apply your wisdom to analyzing GMOs. GMOs are not the same kind of modifications as those done through cultivation.

Would you be able to tell the difference between 'regular' corn and 'corn' from 2,000 years ago modified to contain the genetics of today's 'regular' corn?

Cultivation is a means of creating a/increasing the symbiotic relationship of organisms. GMOs are "cut and paste" or "hacker" modifications which are unproven despite how amazing and awesome that ability is.

This is no different than noticing a peculiar corn plant in your crop that produces consistently larger ears of corn, or has a sweeter taste, and deciding to reserve the seeds and breed that plant cycle. A desired trait appears and is utilized - there is no guarantee the corn is any more/less safe than any other strain of corn out there. It could be sweeter because some crazy mutation caused it to produce small quantities of antifreeze.

By all means, let GMOs be studied over the course of a few generations, but to release these products to the population without true understanding is both ignorant and arrogant, and Chaos/Pride are decay which lead to death. Even if not for our bodies, for the verity of healthy minds, hearts, and culture, let us take our time in flexing muscles which we never dreamed we could have rather than intellectually/technologically masturbating into our food supply.

I share your sentiments (though not necessarily to the same degree) - but another one of the little facts is that the vast majority of genetically engineered crops are not intended for direct consumption - they are intended to be fed to cattle used for beef production, or chickens that end up at the local Tyson processing facility.

The other little devil is in the process. Few, if any, technologies are ever tested before they see widespread adoption. Companies cannot afford to do ten years of testing on a product without paying hefty premium prices (like you do for medications - and we all know that those prices are under control). Governments are not going to fund research into the impact of every dietary product on the shelf and coming to the shelf, and consumers are not going to pay a 25% premium to make sure something isn't going to make them grow six legs.

Enough trials are done on the food to know it is not a health concern in the immediate or intermediary future. However, in-depth studies on long-term effects of eating various foods is always an expensive and rather controversial environment. Just look back over various headlines and research papers these past 20 years - "Eggs are bad, the worst thing you can eat." "Eggs are not really all that bad, a new study finds, avoid the yolk." "You know what, forget that, eat grandma's cooking, she knew something after all - the yolk has a lot of good stuff in it, just don't overdo it."

reply to post by paearmor

Its about control and the dollar...

This wouldn't be ATS if it wasn't.

not the science so should explain that to the farmers in India..the ones that havent killed themselves because they cant pay their loans for their wonderful altered will be illegal to plant your own food or have heirloom seeds in your posession..just wait

And they would somehow have been able to afford 'normal' seeds?

The problem in nations like India is an overall lack of experience in agriculture and discipline. Genetically engineered crops would give them a decent edge in that environment - however, no genetic modification is substitute for poor agricultural practices and a lack of control over one's property.

In short - India will have to put a lot more focus on teaching their people how to farm and enforcing property rights in order to see a lot of their efforts come to fruition. They will eventually get there, though.

I know that doesn't solve the problem of the outstanding loan - but America isn't one to lecture about poor consumer borrowing practices.

As for making it illegal to plant heirloom seeds? Not going to happen. Even if the national government goes bat-# crazy, the law will not apply to me.

I've learned something in the military: might may not make right - but it certainly gets people to give you some elbow room. Just stand up and say the federal government no longer has any jurisdiction over your yard, community, or state (if you can get enough people). Reinforce this denial of jurisdiction with a condition-3 firearm at your side, and don't be afraid to make ready.

I highly doubt it will reach that point - but it is why I couldn't care less about the wild conspiracy theories on what will and will not become illegal. Rather than focus on that - focus on how to get the country back to the way it should be in a non-violent manner, and just be comforted by your resolve to violence if the situation demands it.

reply to post by Shadowfoot

While you are correct in your premise that we have been HYBRIDIZING plants for around 10,000 years, we must use the correct verb. We never genetically engineered, as in manipulated DNA ever in our history until recently. Jared Diamond in Guns Germs and Steel, paints the most accurate portrait of our agricultural origins. Combining DNA from species issuing from entirely different plant families, and even Kingdoms ( Kingdom, Phylum, Class, Order Family Genus Species) is ludicrous to say the least.

The interesting thing about genetics is that cellular metabolisms are not really all that specific or regimented as the organisms those cells are a part of. The ability to metabolize a certain chemical is not specific to a species, phylum, etc. Humans, for instance, are one of the few animals with the enzymes in saliva capable of breaking down wheat gluten into simple sugars as a pre-digestion process. This is a recent trait that appeared after humans began cultivating wheat, and is a genetic trait only common among populations that have a history of cultivating wheat.

After all - modern genetic and evolutionary theory place all of these divergent organisms as having a common ancestor. There is even evidence that naturally occurring retro viruses have been the vessels for cross-species and cross-class transmission of DNA.

And, again - if we were to take corn and cultivate it naturally for another thousand years, then take the genetic code of that corn and use gene modifying processes to make a similar, if not exact copy of that strand with today's technology - no one would know the difference. Most of life shares about 50% of its genetic code or more (doesn't matter if you're single-celled or a hive-mind) - I'm sure we could find the genetic code that corn eventually adopts within various insects and other organisms, already.

posted on Nov, 19 2010 @ 11:26 PM
If people want to eat this GMO food, go right ahead. You can be the lab rat while i watch you squirm in pain. For me, i will stick to the reg. foods, so they better label GMO OR NO GMO. If i were in charge, i would feed the CEO OR PRESIDENT, of GMO their own products for the rest of their natural life. If they squirmmed in gut pain, i would persist on feeding them their own foods that they sell.

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 12:40 AM
I have been saying for years that hydro and aeroponics are the way forward. Certain farmers have already embraced this, strawberry farming is heading quickly toward this technology and tomatoes are on the same path. The great thing about this technology is that you could grow produce in the middle of a city, utilizing a highrise design would minimise footprint and maximise yield.

I have done my own little experiments with the technology (i grow peppers, tomatoes etc) and it really is incredible the amount of production you can get. There are of course other benefits like the fact pesticide use can be eliminated if clean room procedures are utilized, fertilizer use can be reduced and best of all there is no run off into rivers and streams so the environment gets less damaged. Not to mention the ability to grow all year round.

Why our governments are being so slow to fund this technoogy i'm not sure. Farmers cannot really fund it themselves.

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 12:58 AM
I only buy milk that comes from non-steroid or non-frankenstien cows. Baskin Robbins uses this Frankenfood. Avoid baskin robins. Many chocolate bars do too. Research and know what u are eating. Sadly the laughably named "FOOD SAFETY BILL" S.510 received cloture today and will go up for a full vote soon. STOP IT!
edit on 20-11-2010 by BoatRock1 because: S.510

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 01:59 AM
I just want to point out to all you people who grow your own food, you are already the vast minority who eat healthy anyway and its not important for you to tell us how much better your food taste. I'm going to give you a little piece of information you can go outside right now and observe for yourself about how people eat.

Take a drive around town and count the number of fast food places, the number of regular grocery stores, and the number of restaurants. Keep that number in your head and drive your route again this time counting the number of farmers markets, organic and/or health oriented grocery stores, and anywhere else you would go to get a tofu burger and lentil soup.

Americans are gluttons, and we all have relatively similar taste, that is, salad is rabbit food, and steak is fine dining. The rest of the time we fill in with burgers and fried chicken until either we get fat and forced into some salad, or get paid and upgrade to steak. Individual taste vary of course and you may genuinely love the taste of your home grown lettuce but for the vast majority of us lettuce is something that goes in between a bun and 2 meat paddies covered in pickles, cheese, mustard, ketchup, and onions.

Humans eat what taste good not what is good for them, thats the reason you either didn't find anything healthy if you are in a major city, to a few more per hundred McDonald's as you get more rural.

So how does this relate to genetically modified foods?

It doesn't, because it doesn't matter if the food is genetically modified. Only a conspiracy theorist of the utmost paranoia would believe that GMO crops are anything but the natural progression of humans applying technology to better people's lives. Nobody is going to die because the corn grows faster or the lettuce is more cold hearty unless you believe there's hidden side effects to enhancing the genes we have otherwise spent the last 10 thousand years selectively breeding to enhance anyway. If you are afraid of some hidden mutant cancer causing genes hidden in the corn you probably need to stop using your cell phone too since someone once incorrectly theorized that a 1 watt antenna is microwaving your head, and for that matter you better wear a gas mask at all times because the ambient contaminant levels in the air increase every single year. I do not see the risk of GMO crops killing people by cancer or otherwise being any higher than the random mutations of nature throwing out cancer causing tomatoes into someones organic garden at home. Do not forget that the sun is a large cause of mutated DNA on this planet so your vegetable garden always runs the risk of producing something that might kill you. The risk is extremely low of course but the entire purpose of living on earth is about risk management and nothing about GMO says "change your eating habbits or die" to me.

Sorry, but the fact is, at least here in the US, we die of cholesterol. We love beef, burgers, and hot dogs, and we die because they taste so good we make them a majority of our diet. The average lifespan here would probably jump up 10 years if we all gave up the beef and ate nothing but GMO crops, but we wont, because as I said, salad is for bunnies.

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 03:04 AM
For those still looking to find information on how to do AP at home; follow the link in my signature.
I am setting up a site with this information as I go about it myself.

YouTube is also a wealth of information.

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 04:59 AM
reply to post by GlennCanady

Is world hunger also a scam?

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 05:08 AM

Originally posted by kykweer
reply to post by GlennCanady

Is world hunger also a scam?

Amen. If only we could find a way to get the super crops into the mouths of the 16,000 kids that die everyday from starvation. I will bet my life they don't care that the corn has been genetically engineered to grow faster or taste sweeter.

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 06:06 AM
Simply amazing! I wonder how long it will be till the government will step in and try to shut him down? I would like to set up a system such as the one in the video in my back yard and ecape from all this prosessed food you buy at the grocery stoer. I also suspect that those who advertise "Organic" are really telling the truth.If you grow your own, you know just what goes into it. Good job!

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 06:09 AM
Yes, because making crops that will grow with a minimum of water for sub-Saharan Africa is such a sham. Making food that can grow in places where food normally doesn't grow is a scam...

There's also one interesting thing going on here that cannot be denied: These people had to use a lot of fertilizer, a lot of quality soil, and a lot of water for this (well, that is if their yield figures are accurate). You simply cannot get the same quality and same quantity of those necessary items in the starving parts of the world.

Also one last thing. A lot of people here seem to think that GMO food will have adverse effects on How does GMO food hurt me if I eat it? What's 'Frankenfood' going to do to me physically?
edit on 20/11/10 by madnessinmysoul because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 06:41 AM
reply to post by madnessinmysoul

The research is ongoing but here is one opinion from Dr Michael Antoniou, Senior Lecturer in Molecular Pathology, London, UK.

In the USA in 1989 a total of 5000 individuals became ill after consuming an amino acid tryptophan health food supplement derived from GE bacteria. Out of these, 37 died and 1500 became permanently disabled with sickness. It is still debated as to whether the presence of the toxin was a direct result of the genetic engineering or due to sloppy manufacturing procedures. Nevertheless, if this product was produced today it would be subject to health risk assessment since it is derived from a novel process; that is, GE bacteria. Since this tryptophan was greater than 99% pure and devoid of DNA, it would be passed as substantially equivalent to the same substance obtained from non-engineered organisms. In other words if it was marketed today, the same tragedy would result as the pre-clinical and carefully monitored clinical type trials that are required to detect novel toxins of the type that was produced would be seen as unnecessary and no labelling would be required.

And here is the link: to the entire article: Is GM food devoid of DNA safe?

we are what we eat, so is this frankenfood making us look younger and sweeter? But at the same time destroying our insides???

I think Much more research should be done before this stuff is released into our environment, would it surprise anyone that our whole civilization or species could be destroyed in the name of profit because we didn't do enough research before releasing this stuff worldwide?

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 07:06 AM
""""Only a conspiracy theorist of the utmost paranoia would believe that GMO crops are anything but the natural progression of humans applying technology to better people's lives.""""

GMO crops are being engineered to yield 1 crop, and that's it. You can't take their seeds and grow another crop. They have been engineered to NOT reproduce.

This forces everyone to keep buying Monsato's seeds.

This has never been done before in the history of this planet. We've created a food source that can not reproduce. So some one can keep getting rich selling seeds. Now if this freak of nature infects the global crops.....

Mankind won't have a food source. God will deal a harsh punishment upon man for destroying his creation.

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 07:28 AM
reply to post by Aim64C

There are always agricultural philosophies. Tilling the soil works just fine so long as you fertilize and keep it to a minimum. Plowing is essential for the prevention of pests - you always plow the roots up to expose them to the cold winter air for a few weeks before plowing the whole works under.

The eastern philosophy is more complete than that! No tilling, start from that concept. The plants are mulched by straw throughout the growing season, and simply cut after the season, if annuals, to compost on the spot. The nutrients naturally get re-absorbed back into the soil through rainfall and gravity.

Keeping in mind one additional and vital point : Every stage you add to process is one more expenditure of time and possible resources. This could apply to say, adding glacial dust to the plants to keep pests away as an alternative to pesticides. No good : this is an extra step which requires aquiring the dust, spreading the dust, and washing off the dust afterwards.

Plant onions, leeks, and a variety of other plants typically considered weeds strategically throughout the crop. This naturally repels the insects, and is proven very effective. These also become additional crops for your harvest.

Those sub-earth micro-organisms, worms, beetles, and other lifeforms are your tillers and your oxen replacement.

Using non-terminating crops and establishing a community seed bank would also be a pretty cool idea.

It sounds better than just spitting wild seeds at random for reasons I'm not entirely understanding.

Planting perennial berry bushes, fruit trees (varied depending on climate), walnut trees, and other harvestables in otherwise non-agricultural lands would lead to these being as common as, say, Queen Annes lace or dandelions. What that means is that no one has to go hungry, or rely on fiat currency to enjoy anti-oxidizing, nutritious organic produce, ever again.
edit on 20-11-2010 by Northwarden because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 07:44 AM
These people are awesome

just sent a quick message in praise, care to? = )

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 07:55 AM
Slaves are not supposed to know this. We are supposed to shop and stay obedient. Please, do not disturb society by posting these videos, because this is questioning establishment and elites.

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 07:57 AM
Science, such as gentically enhancing food, (no, I'm not talking about our corporate mobsters), can be a great benefit to humanity, providing everything was transparently done with studies, and we weren't living in a hijacked world run by criminal jackyls.

With science comes great responsibility. But its not just the elite, pushing wars and poisons, and starving most of the world.

We play our role, even in our daily energy, negativity, arguments, disagreements, and lack of charity, compassion, kindness, concern for others.

We need to turn all negative energies within us, into positive, and start to mend/repair and recover, our inner light, and grow our love to unconditional, because this world is a mirror, its is manifesting the collective state of energy and polarity of the planet. The ones in control could only go so far, if no one is willing to fight their wars and won't give in to bullying no matter what, and if everyone began to form their own local counsels for peace and awareness and began to address problems like homelessness, thinking out of the box.

We need to transform the negative energies into positive energy, from within us, because critical times are coming, and imagine high clean technology, responsibly done to benefit all people, in a positive system, with new "beneficials" never put in to take over, but carefullly studied, and people no longer slaves.

But unless our energy changes, these things and far worse, are coming to us, reflecting the state of our consciousness.

I really liked the video, 9 000 fish???? The nutrients from the plants and fish supporting each other for a bigger yield.

This is sustainability, and even on a smaller scale, say an acre set up in a similar way, could feed a number of families grouped together for survival. now the thing to do is picture how to make the pumps and pipes if something shuts down the grid, can we create resins out of plastics and hemp fibres for material, as well?

So what happens to the Iraqi if they harvest their own seeds?

They've been forbidding grain farmers in the Prairies from doing this! Now, the Iraqi have been invaded by illegal goons, and I think George Carlin's "We Like War" is a very good look at the evils of the elite US/Uk and military complex cartel/black ops/banker true power people, and I don't think presidents and prime ministers have any power. But they maybe can't risk harvesting them.

But we sure can!!! We can tell them , HELL NO, loudly and send them lots of love, and ask them to join in on our vision of the world, but tell them also their bills and statutes are crimes against humanity and we're not complying, in fact it would be a crime for us to comply with that criminal statute.
edit on 20-11-2010 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 10:28 AM
reply to post by GlennCanady
OMG I just figured that out, GMO Food is a Scam.
Really great thread, just shows what can be done, this looks like it might go some where.
On the GMO it would seem that second generation groth food might not be toxic, or as toxic as first generation.
I don;t know about the gene mutations, but the problem of dirrectly placed poison on first generation would be main danger.

But anyhow OMG, GMO.
Is OMG considered profinity, I lost thosand of bonus points for not even using bad word, and a person not to name names, uses Gd this and gd that and you don't hear a peep, I think it's a conspiracy and someone is being paid off, who's palm can I grease to get my bonus points back.

Oh I know GMO is profinity, just wondering about OMG

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 11:44 AM
we could all work less and grow more
really this is about more than food [size=4]it is about taking our back power

Anastasia book 1 details who Russian 'dachniks' are given 600 square meter 'dacha' plots of land with small cottage to grow food; accounting for nearly 70% of Russias people growing 90% of the countrys potatoes.

We can grow it~grow our food and grow our freedom!

Farmers Market Friends


posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 12:25 PM
let us not kill this beautiful world, this beautiful nature, "mother" nature, by experiencing genetic food manipulation please !!!! maybe, why not, ok for experiencing genetic manipulation to heal cancer or whatever but we may not accept they make Frankensteinfood out of genetic manipulation .... maybe as I said ok in laboratory, but NOT
in our familys kitchen, in our school canteen, in our mother nature environment because that is putting our healths in danger !!!!
we are not puppets from laboratory, we are not animals ( poor animals anyway
) that have to live in laboratories !!! we want to live on this little earth with healthy food and healty emotions !!!!
I DO HATE MONSANTO GENETIC MANIPULATION !! I DO HATE BP OIL SPILL AND KILLING OF OUR FOOD CHAIN !!! I HATE all those that want us to live a robotic way of life !! Please, fight for a good world, a nice one, a human one ( are we not humans maybe ?? ), protecting soil and air and food !!!!
may we live long enough to see changings/fightings for better and please look at Europ where in France they are fighting against GMO !!!! PEACE for all of us - STOP killing our civilisation !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 01:25 PM
Love it, I've been experimenting with AP and it's an incredibly rewarding hobby, glad to see this on the home page.

Here's a thread I made that never really got off the ground...

check it out

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