reply to post by GlennCanady
Are you kidding me. What they are doing with this GMO stuff is NOT what man has been doing for thousands of years by selective
It's the exact same thing - just a more direct process allowing for more control and greater change in less time. You realize that Corn has nothing
in common with its ancestral roots, correct?
The Tomato is another good example of this.
The only difference is that one change took place at random across the time span of thousands of years of cultivation, and the other was implanted
Functionally, there is no difference.
They are inserting Roach genes and other insects into Salmon and then plan on releasing them into the wild. IN 40 years they say that all
natural Salmon will be wiped out. Do you want to eat a Salmon that has had Insect genes inserted into it? If so, you should be a poster boy for
So, if I have no problem with something - I am therefor a tool?
I would like to see where they are inserting insect genes into salmon. I would also like to see who or what decided natural salmon populations would
be obliterated within 40 years. That is an extreme estimate, if I do say so, myself.
It will destroy all our natural foods and kill us just like it kills the rats the fed the GMO corn to.
For you: www.biolsci.org...
Patho-physiological profiles are unique for each GM crop/food, underlining the necessity for a case-by-case evaluation of their safety, as is
largely admitted and agreed by regulators. It is not possible to make comments concerning any general, similar subchronic toxic effect for all GM
foods. However, in the three GM maize varieties that formed the basis of this investigation, new side effects linked to the consumption of these
cereals were revealed, which were sex- and often dose-dependent. Effects were mostly concentrated in kidney and liver function, the two major diet
detoxification organs, but in detail differed with each GM type. In addition, some effects on heart, adrenal, spleen and blood cells were also
frequently noted. As there normally exists sex differences in liver and kidney metabolism, the highly statistically significant disturbances in the
function of these organs, seen between male and female rats, cannot be dismissed as biologically insignificant as has been proposed by others . We
therefore conclude that our data strongly suggests that these GM maize varieties induce a state of hepatorenal toxicity. This can be due to the new
pesticides (herbicide or insecticide) present specifically in each type of GM maize, although unintended metabolic effects due to the mutagenic
properties of the GM transformation process cannot be excluded . All three GM maize varieties contain a distinctly different pesticide residue
associated with their particular GM event (glyphosate and AMPA in NK 603, modified Cry1Ab in MON 810, modified Cry3Bb1 in MON 863). These substances
have never before been an integral part of the human or animal diet and therefore their health consequences for those who consume them, especially
over long time periods are currently unknown. Furthermore, any side effect linked to the GM event will be unique in each case as the site of transgene
insertion and the spectrum of genome wide mutations will differ between the three modified maize types. In conclusion, our data presented here
strongly recommend that additional long-term (up to 2 years) animal feeding studies be performed in at least three species, preferably also
multi-generational, to provide true scientifically valid data on the acute and chronic toxic effects of GM crops, feed and foods. Our analysis
highlights that the kidneys and liver as particularly important on which to focus such research as there was a clear negative impact on the function
of these organs in rats consuming GM maize varieties for just 90 days.
"Aim, this proves my point!"
It also proves mine. The effects of this stuff on humans and other animals is simply not known. Mice and smaller animals eat far more food
pound-per-pound than humans do. This means a nominal diet will result in considerably higher chemical concentrations in mice than in humans. As I
have also mentioned - a number of our body's functions are far superior to those of many other animals, including the metabolizing of toxins.
I can feed you ten chocolate bars a day and you will not die from caffeine overdose or hypoglycemia. Your dog, cat, mouse, etc will (even after
adjusting dosage to weight). This is a considerable factor in all of these tests. For whatever strange reason - our bodies seem incredibly resilient
to toxins that most other animals find simply intolerable.
reply to post by Northwarden
You may be knowledgeable about agriculture, but you don't hold a monopoly on that by a long shot. You choose the hardiest wild varieties of
seed you can find, and actually ensure there is no genetic modification already in place.
I do not believe I have seen many varieties of "wild corn" or "wild tomatoes." Much less would I see a point in attempting to eat them or plant
them across the nation. Now "organic" varieties are much more sensible - but those require cultivation.
In the end - there are always going to be people who want to avoid genetically engineered crops, and the market appealing to those people will always
In other words, no Monsanto stamps of approval, or their imitators. The seeds do not need to be in a berry, rather, the seeds are molded into
clay pellets, which then shoot their roots down upon contact with soil. There is a valuable field guide called the "One Straw Revolution" that
details much about Chinese agriculture, and this method of seeding is surefire.
Surefire seeding.... a great way to market a book of agricultural wisdom.
So is their advocation of not tilling soil, which constantly exposes the micro-organisms to sunlight and kills them off, year after year.
Western agriculture tends to be a monkey-see, monkey-do process, and it is far from the best way. The proof was in seeing un-tilled fields full of
some of the richest soil in the world, after thousands of years of crops being grown. This is compared to plots in SA which were tilled for over five
thousand years - the soil had turned to sand. I could go on ...
There are always agricultural philosophies. Tilling the soil works just fine so long as you fertilize and keep it to a minimum. Plowing is essential
for the prevention of pests - you always plow the roots up to expose them to the cold winter air for a few weeks before plowing the whole works
I am sure this debate could rage on for pages - but it also depends largely upon the crops. Western agriculture has always focused on heavy feeders
like corn, soy, cotton, tomatoes, etc. I am interested in looking into the "eastern" philosophies of agriculture, and will in due time (gardening
is a hobby of mine that is somewhat strange considering my techno-industrial skill sets and mentality).
I'm not saying use weakened, cultivated varieties, I'll suggest finding the best and hardiest strains for any kind of aerial sowing project.
What for, though? In all honesty, I would rather see community farms maintained by volunteers or those on unemployment or some other government
benefit program. The food grown and preserved would be available to people on those programs and excess donated to various charities.
Using non-terminating crops and establishing a community seed bank would also be a pretty cool idea.
It sounds better than just spitting wild seeds at random for reasons I'm not entirely understanding.
reply to post by Dasher
While I appreciate the mood and intentions of your words, you are missing a crucial understanding. Just as you can see through false scientific
methods, you should also apply your wisdom to analyzing GMOs. GMOs are not the same kind of modifications as those done through
Would you be able to tell the difference between 'regular' corn and 'corn' from 2,000 years ago modified to contain the genetics of today's
Cultivation is a means of creating a/increasing the symbiotic relationship of organisms. GMOs are "cut and paste" or "hacker" modifications
which are unproven despite how amazing and awesome that ability is.
This is no different than noticing a peculiar corn plant in your crop that produces consistently larger ears of corn, or has a sweeter taste, and
deciding to reserve the seeds and breed that plant cycle. A desired trait appears and is utilized - there is no guarantee the corn is any more/less
safe than any other strain of corn out there. It could be sweeter because some crazy mutation caused it to produce small quantities of antifreeze.
By all means, let GMOs be studied over the course of a few generations, but to release these products to the population without true
understanding is both ignorant and arrogant, and Chaos/Pride are decay which lead to death. Even if not for our bodies, for the verity of healthy
minds, hearts, and culture, let us take our time in flexing muscles which we never dreamed we could have rather than intellectually/technologically
masturbating into our food supply.
I share your sentiments (though not necessarily to the same degree) - but another one of the little facts is that the vast majority of genetically
engineered crops are not intended for direct consumption - they are intended to be fed to cattle used for beef production, or chickens that end up at
the local Tyson processing facility.
The other little devil is in the process. Few, if any, technologies are ever tested before they see widespread adoption. Companies cannot afford to
do ten years of testing on a product without paying hefty premium prices (like you do for medications - and we all know that those prices are under
control). Governments are not going to fund research into the impact of every dietary product on the shelf and coming to the shelf, and consumers are
not going to pay a 25% premium to make sure something isn't going to make them grow six legs.
Enough trials are done on the food to know it is not a health concern in the immediate or intermediary future. However, in-depth studies on long-term
effects of eating various foods is always an expensive and rather controversial environment. Just look back over various headlines and research
papers these past 20 years - "Eggs are bad, the worst thing you can eat." "Eggs are not really all that bad, a new study finds, avoid the yolk."
"You know what, forget that, eat grandma's cooking, she knew something after all - the yolk has a lot of good stuff in it, just don't overdo
reply to post by paearmor
Its about control and the dollar...
This wouldn't be ATS if it wasn't.
not the science so much...you should explain that to the farmers in India..the ones that havent killed themselves because they cant pay their
loans for their wonderful altered seeds...soon..it will be illegal to plant your own food or have heirloom seeds in your posession..just wait
And they would somehow have been able to afford 'normal' seeds?
The problem in nations like India is an overall lack of experience in agriculture and discipline. Genetically engineered crops would give them a
decent edge in that environment - however, no genetic modification is substitute for poor agricultural practices and a lack of control over one's
In short - India will have to put a lot more focus on teaching their people how to farm and enforcing property rights in order to see a lot of their
efforts come to fruition. They will eventually get there, though.
I know that doesn't solve the problem of the outstanding loan - but America isn't one to lecture about poor consumer borrowing practices.
As for making it illegal to plant heirloom seeds? Not going to happen. Even if the national government goes bat-# crazy, the law will not apply to
I've learned something in the military: might may not make right - but it certainly gets people to give you some elbow room. Just stand up and say
the federal government no longer has any jurisdiction over your yard, community, or state (if you can get enough people). Reinforce this denial of
jurisdiction with a condition-3 firearm at your side, and don't be afraid to make ready.
I highly doubt it will reach that point - but it is why I couldn't care less about the wild conspiracy theories on what will and will not become
illegal. Rather than focus on that - focus on how to get the country back to the way it should be in a non-violent manner, and just be comforted by
your resolve to violence if the situation demands it.
reply to post by Shadowfoot
While you are correct in your premise that we have been HYBRIDIZING plants for around 10,000 years, we must use the correct verb. We never
genetically engineered, as in manipulated DNA ever in our history until recently. Jared Diamond in Guns Germs and Steel, paints the most accurate
portrait of our agricultural origins. Combining DNA from species issuing from entirely different plant families, and even Kingdoms ( Kingdom, Phylum,
Class, Order Family Genus Species) is ludicrous to say the least.
The interesting thing about genetics is that cellular metabolisms are not really all that specific or regimented as the organisms those cells are a
part of. The ability to metabolize a certain chemical is not specific to a species, phylum, etc. Humans, for instance, are one of the few animals
with the enzymes in saliva capable of breaking down wheat gluten into simple sugars as a pre-digestion process. This is a recent trait that appeared
after humans began cultivating wheat, and is a genetic trait only common among populations that have a history of cultivating wheat.
After all - modern genetic and evolutionary theory place all of these divergent organisms as having a common ancestor. There is even evidence that
naturally occurring retro viruses have been the vessels for cross-species and cross-class transmission of DNA.
And, again - if we were to take corn and cultivate it naturally for another thousand years, then take the genetic code of that corn and use gene
modifying processes to make a similar, if not exact copy of that strand with today's technology - no one would know the difference. Most of life
shares about 50% of its genetic code or more (doesn't matter if you're single-celled or a hive-mind) - I'm sure we could find the genetic code that
corn eventually adopts within various insects and other organisms, already.