Evidence of God: Physics

reply to post by mrvdreamknight


People either refuse to get the argument, or just don't get it.

The individual in the video is talking about the laws of Universe, not the number of Galaxies or planets.

If Gravity was to be changed a tiny winy bit, life wouldn't be sustainable.

reply to post by mrvdreamknight


Regarding "acts of randomness"...
To me, it's all a question of time. If time is endless, then anything that can possibly happen, WILL happen. Eventually.
So, no matter how remote the odds, eventually it will happen. If the odds are ten to the eleventh power, or the millionth power..... eventtually it will happen (whatever "it" is)

Of course, this is assuming that time is endless, whether it goes on forever, or if it has an intfinite number of parallel layers.

Originally posted by masterofnone
reply to post by mrvdreamknight

 

Regarding "acts of randomness"...
To me, it's all a question of time. If time is endless, then anything that can possibly happen, WILL happen. Eventually.
So, no matter how remote the odds, eventually it will happen. If the odds are ten to the eleventh power, or the millionth power..... eventtually it will happen (whatever "it" is)

Of course, this is assuming that time is endless, whether it goes on forever, or if it has an intfinite number of parallel layers.

Yeah, and the Atheist Spaghetti monster is better

Second line.

reply to post by masterofnone


"Eventually?"

Really? Is that the most logical conclusion? Honestly?

Parallel layers of time (that we have never proven even to exist) and unending time (which the only observable fact regarding time is that everything we know of has a beginning and an end) - so is that really the answer?

So the remote possiblity of a Creator is even more remote than 'eventually'?

Hmmm...doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

But, eh..what do I know?

reply to post by mrvdreamknight


I never denied a Creator..... the odds of a Creator are probably much better than "remote"

If time has no infinite qualities, then my comments are meaningless

reply to post by masterofnone


I'm sorry. I didn't mean to come across so defensive. I'm just so use to getting attacked here it's a knee jerk reaction. My bad.

reply to post by oozyism


The perfect comeback to that video and its kinda ridiculous "universe finetuned for life" claim:



If the goal was to create a place for life to flourish...well...I'd give a 4/10, and only that high because I tend to live on one of the spots where life is possible.

If god created the universe, he decided that 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999 99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of the universe should be deadly to any form of life we know. Yeah, makes total sense

(And I am not only talking about the vastness of the universe but also the physical forces that govern this environment!)

reply to post by MrXYZ


I will repeat:

The video is not talking bout planets, the individual in the video is talking about Universal laws, hence, if you tweak the force of Gravity by a tiny winy fraction, life wouldn't be sustainable.

reply to post by oozyism


And so was I. If the goal was life, why create physical forces (that ultimately shaped the universe) that make the large majority (>99.9%) of it inhabitable?? That's not intelligent design, if anything, you could argue it's stupid design...and it definitely isn't evidence for god's existence.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by oozyism

 

And so was I. If the goal was life, why create physical forces (that ultimately shaped the universe) that make the large majority (>99.9%) of it inhabitable?? That's not intelligent design, if anything, you could argue it's stupid design...and it definitely isn't evidence for god's existence.

No, you were talking about the section of Universe where we are.

I will repeat, the video is talking about Universal laws, not where we live. It doesn't matter where we live, with Gravity being tweaked even tiny winy bit, it doesn't really matter where we live, we won't be able to live.

It's just staggeringly unbelievable that ANYONE would be unintelligent enough to belive in a supreme being or creator or 'god'.
C'mon man, you're human, you're smarter than that.
Even old cardinals and the pope himself don't take ANY of the religious crap literally. They're not that dumb. If they were that dumb they'd never have reached such high ranking within the church.
The idea that jesus came back alive is ridiculous, the idea that 'god' created the universe is laughable.

But, if you ARE interested in the answers, try studying the 'measurement problem', 'quantum entanglement' and the idea of a singular conciousness. I think you'll find the reasoning that lead the ancient people to INVENT god.

P.S. I believe all religions to be completely farcical and deserving of nothing more than derision and ridicule. Pull your heads out of the sand.

reply to post by oozyism


The universe is how it is because of how the physical forces and laws work, it's all connected. So no, you misunderstood me...I do mean to say that the claim that the physical laws/forces are just "perfect" for life is hogwash given that they result in the large part of this universe being completely inhospitable.

Originally posted by MrXYZ
reply to post by oozyism

 

The universe is how it is because of how the physical forces and laws work, it's all connected. So no, you misunderstood me...I do mean to say that the claim that the physical laws/forces are just "perfect" for life is hogwash given that they result in the large part of this universe being completely inhospitable.

Again, it is not about planets, or where we are in this universe, if Gravity was tuned even a little bit, we wouldn't be able to survive anywhere in this Universe. No matter how big the Universe is, no matter how many different planets, different stars, we just wouldn't be able to live.

What about Cosmological constant?

Do you think that has anything to do with where we are?

reply to post by oozyism


I don't know how much more I can dumb down what I mean...

1) The physical laws and forces (like gravity) shape the universe
2) The majority of the universe is completely inhospitable and not suited for life
3) Ergo, if life in the universe was the goal...well, apart from a tiny % of space, this whole "creation" is a failure...which means even if there's such a thing as a creator, at best he's really incompetent.

You act as if the physical forces/laws are disconnected from how the universe is...when in reality, it's those forces which shaped it. Shaped it in a way that made the majority of space inhospitable for life!

Again, Neil DeGrasse Tyson made a very good point with his video...

reply to post by MrXYZ



If the law of gravity changed just a little bit, then life would be impossible (read carefully, this is the important part), anywhere in the Universe. Meaning no where in the Universe would we be able to live. No planet, anywhere, any time etc.

In fact, the Universe would be F'd if the cosmological constant was tweaked just a little bit. Get it?

reply to post by oozyism


Umm... No.

If physics had evidence of a God than there would be research published to that effect. Stephen Hawking and other leading physicists wouldn't be writing books explaining how the Universe doesn't need a God if there were evidence of one in his very line of work.

I won't even bother clicking the video since the still image is of Lee Strobel, known Christian apologist and certainly not someone I would listen to on the subject of physics (or God for that matter). Any argument he attempts to make is either an argument from fine tuning or an argument from ignorance. An example of such an argument:

"The Universe is fine tuned for life therefore someone must have put it that way"

This argument fails on every level. It's like finding an animal carcass ridden with bacteria and coming to the conclusion that the carcass has been fine tuned for bacteria by some higher power. Comparing it a microcosm shows how absurd an assertion it is. This isn't to mention the fact that we know of only ONE planet where life has emerged, our own, and as far as we know the other planets in our immediate vicinity are barren. Of the exo-planets discovered thus far only a few have been Earth-like.

Any other argument made will fall into one of two categories: Argument from ignorance

"I don't understand how the Universe could have formed without a God."

or

"The Universe is so vast and mind boggling and the chances of life happening are so remote, a God must've done it"

or a God of the Gaps argument such as

"There are aspects of physics and the Universe we haven't figured out yet, God is the explanation."

reply to post by Titen-Sxull


So you think these finely tuned laws came to existence by mere chance?

Second line.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Titen-Sxull

 

So you think these finely tuned laws came to existence by mere chance?

Second line.

No, I'm saying we don't fully understand how (yet)...just like we didn't understand the earth was round not too long ago.

A lack of knowledge doesn't automatically imply the existence of a deity. Not surprised some people still fall into that "god of the gaps" trap. In ancient times people attributed fire to gods, then lightning, then biodiversity (until we learned about evolution), and the list goes on...but guess what, one after the other was completely explained through science.

As Hawking said: No god required!

Right now the world looks like that from a logical/rational viewpoint:

1) There's stuff we can explain through science, backed up by evidence
2) There's stuff we can hypothesise about...and run tests to see if we can gain a better understanding
3) There's stuff we just don't understand yet either because of a lack of knowledge, or lack of suitable technology to examine the "thing".

Saying "god did it" without presenting any evidence that would imply his/her/its existence is an easy way out that isn't based on rationality and logic. It's not even a theory, as this would require it to be backed up by evidence and falsifiable. Creationism has ZERO proof (feel free to disagree in the other thread and post your proof), and at least for the moment, isn't falsifiable. It's total wish-belief...like unicorns and Santa.

We can't just go around and every time we don't fully understand something (like cavemen didn't understand fire) attribute it to some deity. We're living in the 21st century and public education made great progress since the times where people attributed every single lack of knowledge to god.

reply to post by MrXYZ


Umm, I for one am not using GOD of GAP argument, which is conveniently getting old.

We have already had this discussion before, where I provided my evidence that an intelligent creator created these laws.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by MrXYZ

 

Umm, I for one am not using GOD of GAP argument, which is conveniently getting old.

We have already had this discussion before, where I provided my evidence that an intelligent creator created these laws.

You mean apart from the thread title "Evidence of God: Physics"?

Sorry mate, but you went straight for the soap and fell into the god of the gaps trap.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/2bfacab53228.jpg[/atsimg]

And if it's getting "old", it's because a lot of creationists keep on falling into that trap