Why The Unfair & Unbalanced Political Correctness Regarding Homosexuality?

Are you still making thread attacking homosexuality?

With all the threads on the same topic, one could be fogiven for mistaking you as a deeply closeted homoseuxal, struggling with his own sexual identity.

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Maybe it seems like people are avoiding a question because they don't know what the question is.

That's MY situation anyway.

What is your question? I would LOVE to have the opportunity to answer your question... I just have no idea what it is! I'm serious. Please. Clarify. I've read the OP over and over again and I don't get it. What do you want to know?

Thanks.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
OK, I'll do my best to answer the OP. But the reason I asked you to rephrase is because I don't UNDERSTAND the OP.

I disagree

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
This is the first question I'm seeing in the OP. And frankly, I don't understand it. Who is "the other side of the fence"? The question doesn't make sense. I don't remember anyone EVER saying that heterosexuality is a choice.

the sides of the fences may be gays, nongay pro-gays, anti-gays, and just people wanting to mature dicussion to understand more.
Could be anything really

Put it this way, if there is a thread regarding gays, almost everyone will end up on a given side of the fence.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Is WHAT an obsession over political correctness?

Just look at this thread
the political correctness in this thread, for gays it seems to just completely avoid the question
Too often everyone has a robotic response like "what's it to you"

My answer to that is.... "whatever it is to me, what's it to you?"
If you want to know what's it to me, make a seperate thread and then we'll discuss

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
I'm not trying to be difficult. I promise. This is why I asked you to tell me what your concern is. Because I don't understand the OP. I'm sorry. Can you re-phrase or something?

One main point of the OP is why can't we have a mature dialogue regarding this topic?
Why does almost every response, in every thread, have to be... "what do you care"
Trying to make a topic taboo is going to increase people's awareness that equal rights is important????
Really?
I mean come on, when are people going to change their approach?
Never? Then you will always see threads like this my friend
Even if you believe there will never be closure at least strive for it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
To add: All that stuff you said about me trying to suppress discussion about it or curb dialogue? Totally wrong! I believe talking about it is the only way we're going to get anywhere. You're completely off-base with that assumption.

Just so you know. I have no desire to stop talk about it.

Judging from the responses you made in this thread I cannot agree with that

From this post of yours yes I can, and I thank you for that

Listen, every thread is the same
Can't we have at least one thread where the "why do you care" or "what's it to you" or "we shouldn't be talking about this" or "you must be a bible zealot" responses are not present?

Just one man.... come on.. Just One People!
And again I can't agree with you on you not being against this topic, you basically called me a homo for making this topic, you have suspicions over me just for creating this topic.
Come on man, that's just ludicrous
That's the equivalent of an anti-gay saying gays are just gay because maybe they want to be part of something or they were abused growing up.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
What is your question? I would LOVE to have the opportunity to answer your question... I just have no idea what it is!

I'm serious. Please. Clarify. I've read the OP over and over again and I don't get it. What do you want to know?

Question 1:

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
So how come heteros can't say that homosexuality isn't a choice but the other side of the fence is able to say that heterosexuality is a choice?

Question 2a:

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Trying to shut people up rather than discussing the issue with get us nowhere as a society

So is it just an obsession over political correctness?
Is that what it is?

Question 2b:

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Can we truly evolve as a society with this approach?

What I'd like to know; why is 10% of the homosexual population trying to change things for the 90% of the heterosexual population?

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
One main point of the OP is why can't we have a mature dialogue regarding this topic?

We CAN have a mature dialogue. Of course there's always going to be people who get upset and get off track. But there are those who are willing to talk. Like me.

Why does almost every response, in every thread, have to be... "what do you care"

Because people are wondering that. If I asked you how many times a day you brush your teeth, wouldn't you be inclined, on ANY level, to ask, "What do you care"?

Trying to make a topic taboo is going to increase people's awareness that equal rights is important????

No one is trying to make it taboo. It's NOT taboo. It's one of the most talked about subjects on ATS some days.

Can't we have at least one thread where the "why do you care" or "what's it to you" or "we shouldn't be talking about this" or "you must be a bible zealot" responses are not present?

Probably not. There are many people, many different kinds of people, many different opinions. You just can't control that kind of thing. But you're making a MISTAKE thinking that when people ask that, their intent is to shut you up.

And again I can't agree with you on you not being against this topic,

That's your opinion, but if you know me at all, you know I post in depth on gay topics. It's one of my favorite topics. So, think whatever you want about it.

you have suspicions over me just for creating this topic.

No. Not just for creating this thread. Creating MANY threads on the same topic (anti-homosexuality).

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Question 1:
So how come heteros can't say that homosexuality isn't a choice

Heteros CAN say that homosexuality isn't a choice. They say it ALL the time. I'm saying it right now. I'm straight and I say homosexuality isn't a choice.

but the other side of the fence is able to say that heterosexuality is a choice?

As I said before, I have NEVER heard ANYONE say that Heterosexuality is a choice. Do you have a link?

The question is totally indecipherable. Does ANYONE understand that question? Besides the OP.

Question 2a:
Trying to shut people up rather than discussing the issue with get us nowhere as a society

So is it just an obsession over political correctness?
Is that what it is?

No. People don't think you have any business in the bedroom of others. It's as simple as that.

Question 2b:
Can we truly evolve as a society with this approach?

Your assumptions about people "trying to shut you up" are wrong. We can and do evolve as a society.

I'm in the same position as Benevolent Heretic as far as not understanding the questions in your OP, and reposting them didn't help since I'd already read the OP several times trying to figure out what you were getting at. I'll try though to give my answers to my best understanding of the questions, and maybe that'll help you see which parts I don't get so you can correct my understanding

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Question 1:
So how come heteros can't say that homosexuality isn't a choice but the other side of the fence is able to say that heterosexuality is a choice?

I've seen people argue that heterosexuality isn't a choice but homosexuality is, and I've seen people argue that neither is (which is what I think). I've never seen anyone argue that homosexuality isn't a choice but heterosexuality is. Could you give a link to an example of this or something?

Honestly, I don't understand how people can take the position that one is a choice but the other isn't. Either we as humans choose which gender we're attracted to or we don't. I have no memory of any conscious decision to be heterosexual, so I don't see why I would think a homosexual had made a choice either.

This is separate from the issue of whether homosexuality is completely genetic, completely environmental, or a little of both. Most of the arguments for an environmental basis for homosexuality that I've seen involve influences that occur very early in childhood -- they're not choices either.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Question 2a:
Trying to shut people up rather than discussing the issue with get us nowhere as a society

So is it just an obsession over political correctness?
Is that what it is?

I think that usually when people try to stop discussions about homosexuality on boards like ATS it's out of frustration. Most of us have probably heard or read the same basic argument thousands of times, and when it's brought up places like this there is almost never any reason to think that it's going to go anywhere different.

On the other hand, I think when people ask why you care so much about it, that can be a good basis for the conversation to move forward. If you answered the question instead of just getting defensive it might also help clarify for other people exactly what you're talking about.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Question 2b:
Can we truly evolve as a society with this approach?

I'm not sure what you mean by "this approach" but I think that we are evolving as a society.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Question 1:

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
So how come heteros can't say that homosexuality isn't a choice but the other side of the fence is able to say that heterosexuality is a choice?

I've yet to meet any homosexual who would say that heterosexuals choose to be attracted to the opposite gender. Example?

Question 2a:

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Trying to shut people up rather than discussing the issue with get us nowhere as a society

So is it just an obsession over political correctness?
Is that what it is?

No, it's just particularly annoying because we've already discussed this thousands of times and it always ends the same way.

Question 2b:

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
Can we truly evolve as a society with this approach?

Evolve to what? To suit whose moral ideals?

Originally posted by texastig
What I'd like to know; why is 10% of the homosexual population trying to change things for the 90% of the heterosexual population?

At least you know how to phrase a question clearly and succinctly. To answer it, I'll have to ask you a question.

Specifically what is the homosexual population trying to change for you? When you say "change things" for you, what specifically do you mean?

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
We CAN have a mature dialogue. Of course there's always going to be people who get upset and get off track. But there are those who are willing to talk. Like me.

Ok, and I thank you for that

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Because people are wondering that. If I asked you how many times a day you brush your teeth, wouldn't you be inclined, on ANY level, to ask, "What do you care"?

Well the person who made the thread on the topic is also curious, that's why he made the topic
if they are so curious then they should create their own thread asking, don't you think?

Furthermore there's way too much anger in their tone for it to be curiosity alone, or even 10% for that matter.
It sounds like they just want people not to discuss it.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
No one is trying to make it taboo. It's NOT taboo. It's one of the most talked about subjects on ATS some days.

No it's not the most talked about subjects
It's the most flamed about subjects
It's the most "Why are you wanting to talk about this, you must be a closet homo" subjects

Of course a large majority of people want it so very much to be taboo
Perhaps their intentions are good, that's possible
But their approach will have no end in sight

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Probably not. There are many people, many different kinds of people, many different opinions. You just can't control that kind of thing. But you're making a MISTAKE thinking that when people ask that, their intent is to shut you up.

If it was curiosity then they woulnd't derail the thread with those statements
they would make their own thread about it

Also too much anger in their tone for it to be curiosity alone
It has to be to shut them up
Also those responses flood any thread on this topic

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
Heteros CAN say that homosexuality isn't a choice. They say it ALL the time. I'm saying it right now. I'm straight and I say homosexuality isn't a choice.

So I can say the same correct, that it IS a choice

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
As I said before, I have NEVER heard ANYONE say that Heterosexuality is a choice. Do you have a link?

The question is totally indecipherable. Does ANYONE understand that question? Besides the OP.

Tell me you've never seen anyone say "If you believe heterosexuality is a choice then you must be a biseuxal"

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
No. People don't think you have any business in the bedroom of others. It's as simple as that.

It's not about being in their bedrooms
There are other issues that are outside their bedrooms too
Like gays being able to adopt for example
That is FAR from being just "privacy of one's bedroom"

Your assumptions about people "trying to shut you up" are wrong. We can and do evolve as a society.

How can you say that?
If you've been in many threads such as these, as you say you have
Then you have seen what I am talking about

You must have seen it in 100% of the threads on the topic you've been in

Originally posted by Brood]
No, it's just particularly annoying because we've already discussed this thousands of times and it always ends the same way.

Yes but why does it always end the same way?
Specifically because of all the things I have been talking about
That's why

Originally posted by Brood]
Evolve to what? To suit whose moral ideals?

No that's not what I meant
I meant evolve into people that listen to each other
No defining how others should live their life

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
So I can say the same correct, that it IS a choice

Of course you can say that. People say it ALL the time. People will disagree with you. I do. But you can say it all you want.

Do you remember making the choice to be heterosexual?

Tell me you've never seen anyone say "If you believe heterosexuality is a choice then you must be a biseuxal"

Never in my life. I have never seen anyone say that heterosexuality is a choice. Only homosexuality.

Like gays being able to adopt for example
That is FAR from being just "privacy of one's bedroom"

So, you're concerned about gays adopting? What is your concern?

You must have seen it in 100% of the threads on the topic you've been in

I wasn't looking for it. Sorry. I can't say if it was there or not, but I'll take your word for it.

Originally posted by ModernAcademia
It's the most flamed about subjects
It's the most "Why are you wanting to talk about this, you must be a closet homo" subjects

Well it's kind of hard to ignore how defensive you get about it. Did you choose who you are attracted to? Just answer the question already. What's wrong? Why can't we talk about this?

Of course a large majority of people want it so very much to be taboo
Perhaps their intentions are good, that's possible
But their approach will have no end in sight

Not taboo, we can talk about it. And we try to. Then you call everyone PC brainwashees when they post credible facts and continue to go on in circles about the same things in your crusade to inform everyone how they think and behave.

If it was curiosity then they woulnd't derail the thread with those statements
they would make their own thread about it

If you did any of the research I asked you to do earlier like a big kid, this thread would be respectable right now. This is your thread -- provide evidence for your points, and you will get evidence back. You have no evidence, so people are asking if you have personal experience with it, at which point you get super defensive and call everyone PC zombies. Nobody has an "angry tone" here at all, either

So I can say the same correct, that it IS a choice

You can say it, just stop getting so defensive when people tell you that you are wrong.

Tell me you've never seen anyone say "If you believe heterosexuality is a choice then you must be a biseuxal"

I guess if they asked you to tell them your personal experience to prove them otherwise you wouldn't go into BIG LETTER RAGE MODE and tell everyone they are getting off topic?

It's not about being in their bedrooms
There are other issues that are outside their bedrooms too
Like gays being able to adopt for example

I also have a problem;
It's about heterosexuals having children.
Because they leave them behind dumpsters in February to be recovered by Children's Aid and adopted by a "Gay Family".
Oh holy procreators, masters of parenting, knower of sexual reproduction, show us the way!
Surely two men cannot know what is good for a child! No vagina there! Important parenting tool! You need that to bind the child's wrists before you lash her with your belt and tuck her behind the garbage! Heterosexual agenda! Heterosexual agenda!

I think that this suggestion that anti-homosexuals are ''closet-cases'' is puerile, and a borderline ad hominem.

While it may be true in some cases, it seems a bit like a cheap shot at people who may just genuinely dislike homosexuality.

Are people that post anti-Islamic threads, secretly suppressing a wish to pray to Mecca five times a day ?

Do KKK members really wish that they were black ?

Are Boston Red Sox supporters hiding the fact that they're genuinely New York Yankees fans ?


Or is it just possible that one of the less fortunate aspects of human nature is the potential to distrust, fear or feel threatened by someone or something that's different to you ?

If so, then I would surmise that the above explanation is the main reason why some people are homophobic, and not because of some self-hating, pseudo-psychological reason.

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


You're right. I mean I actually agree with the first two sentences of your post. I guess it's hard (for me) to figure out why some people are so against the way someone else is living when it has no effect on them. I can't figure it out. In fact, that's one of the reasons I said to the OP, "Why do you care"? I don't understand it. I don't get it. I don't understand his interest in whether or not homosexuality is a choice. If he's not homosexual, why does he care?

So, my mind starts to suppose different scenarios to explain it. I guess that's why I went there today. I rarely go there.

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
You're right. I mean I actually agree with the first two sentences of your post. I guess it's hard (for me) to figure out why some people are so against the way someone else is living when it has no effect on them. I can't figure it out. In fact, that's one of the reasons I said to the OP, "Why do you care"? I don't understand it. I don't get it. I don't understand his interest in whether or not homosexuality is a choice. If he's not homosexual, why does he care?

So, my mind starts to suppose different scenarios to explain it. I guess that's why I went there today. I rarely go there.

I wasn't pointing the finger at anybody specifically. It's just that this ''accusation'' invariably crops up on threads regarding homosexuality.

I personally dislike this debating tactic, purely because - more often than not - the motivation behind the comment is not to add to the debate or make a serious point, but rather, it is intended to be a sly and back-handed ad hominem.


You ask ''why do people care ?''. Maybe they just don't like the idea of anything other than a boy/girl relationship. Maybe they disagree with lifestyle. Maybe they just don't like homosexuality, full stop.

You could flip the question and ask ''why do you care ?'' about the OP's reasons for caring.

I personally believe that a lot of anti-homosexuality/homophobia comes down to a disagreement with the physical expression of homosexuality.

Just as some people find the act of bestiality repulsive, then some people will find the homosexual acts repulsive.

I think it's probably all down to personal taste, what people find sexually acceptable.

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
I wasn't pointing the finger at anybody specifically.

I know you weren't. I was just taking responsibility for what I said.

You ask ''why do people care ?''. Maybe they just don't like the idea of anything other than a boy/girl relationship. Maybe they disagree with lifestyle. Maybe they just don't like homosexuality, full stop.

If it was like not liking sweet potatoes, I could understand that. I mean I don't like sweet potatoes, but I don't think people should stop growing them, advertising them, selling them or eating them. And I don't think they should keep their love of sweet potatoes to themselves... I don't think sweet potatoes should be displayed in the dark corner at the store or be treated any differently than the other vegetables. It doesn't affect me, so shy should I care? I don't. I even buy and handle and cook them, because my husband likes them.

You could flip the question and ask ''why do you care ?'' about the OP's reasons for caring.

I want to understand. I see something that puzzles me in a lot of people and I an curious and want to know... I have a curious mind. But every time I ask, I can't get to the bottom of it.

I personally believe that a lot of anti-homosexuality/homophobia comes down to a disagreement with the physical expression of homosexuality.

Well, just to let you know, when I'm watching a show and I see two men start to have sex, I'm not crazy about it. It makes me kind of ill. Is that the kind of 'disagreement' you mean? I mean, I disagree with certain people, too, but I don't think they should have fewer rights or 'keep their life to themselves' and I don't think that the fact that they have CHOSEN their lifestyle means that they should not enjoy the same rights and privileges the rest of us have. Yeah, I disagree with what they're doing, but what's it to me? See what I mean?

Just as some people find the act of bestiality repulsive, then some people will find the homosexual acts repulsive.

I find the act of two men having sex repulsive. I can't watch it. Fortunately, I don't have to. And neither does anyone else. And still, I am a passionate pro-equal-rights advocate. How do we explain this? It's NONE of my business what they do in their bedroom and if I can't stop thinking about it then that says something about me. See where I'm going with this? They're people and deserve the same protection under the law as any other citizen in this country. It doesn't matter if they've chosen their sexuality or were born into it. They're PEOPLE.

I think it's probably all down to personal taste, what people find sexually acceptable.

And here are my questions to you (and to the OP if he's brave enough to enter a mature discussion about it)...

If you find homosexuality unacceptable to your personal taste, so what?
Does that mean that they should NOT have the same treatment under secular law that everyone else does?
And does whether or not they CHOSE their sexuality matter?
Why?

Let's take another segment of society so we can compare:

Do you find obese women unacceptable to your personal taste?
Does that mean that they should NOT have the same treatment under secular law that everyone else does?
And does whether or not they CHOSE to be fat matter?
Why?

reply to post by Sherlock Holmes


I find heterosexual sex repulsive.

Unfortunately it's impossible to watch daytime television without seeing it plastered everywhere.

People who "tolerate" seeing homosexual acts receive minimal sympathy for a reason -- their trials are minimal.

Stop rubbing it in our faces .

Damn heterosexual agenda..

Sorry, I'll let you get back to complaining about something that happens to you once every 2 years if you're lucky.

It's YOUR country after all.

Sorry, I didn't mean to rub reality in your face, I better calm down before this turns into a Gay Pride Parade and rednecks start throwing rocks because they don't understand this, and they won't have their children understanding it either!

Originally posted by Sherlock Holmes
I think that this suggestion that anti-homosexuals are ''closet-cases'' is puerile, and a borderline ad hominem.

And your thinking stems from what evidence and research? Sounds pretty preconclusive. Is it just ad hominem?

Are people that post anti-Islamic threads, secretly suppressing a wish to pray to Mecca five times a day ?

No, they believe everything George Bush says because the idiot box told them to.

Do KKK members really wish that they were black ?

Modern KKK? Absolutely. According to the modern KKK black people have more rights than white people and receive preferential treatment. They're as jealous and ignorantly hostile as the people crying "homosexual agenda" whenever the ACLU has something to say.

Are Boston Red Sox supporters hiding the fact that they're genuinely New York Yankees fans ?

Oh please, they cheer for the team that either resides closest to them, the one has 99% chance of winning because of the corporate nature of major league sports, or the one they think will be the "dark horse".

-----

Anyways, lets me get your statement straight (awful pun intended)...

You think we should take it easy on anti-homosexuals and homophobes because they are human beings and should be respected regardless of what choices or tendencies they have that negatively impact other people's lives against their will? And what about the people that are human beings and should be respected regardless of what choices or tendencies they have that don't negatively impact other people's lives against their will? They should be subject to badgering from the former because the former were "born that way (born uneducated)"? No. anti-homosexuality, homophobia -- these are not conditions that cannot be changed. They are children of ignorance. Saying "I don't agree with 'the gays' because of their agenda" is like saying "I don't agree with Asians because Yoko Ono wears weird glasses". Asking "Why do you care?" is NOT ad hominem, it's crucial to starting a conversation and coming down to the source of hatred or disagreement, because if you hate asians because of Yoko Ono, clearly you are ignorant.... but I guess it's only clear to certain people.

Anyways, just a logical hiccup here I'm sure.

Nothing to cover up. People can just simply be this illogically inclined to support standpoints that have been informed they were wrong thousands of times... yet they zealously regurgitate it over and over and over again.

...has nothing to do with making themselves feel better about their own sexual discomfort...

...There's clearly some other reason to come in here are make it plainly clear that you are heterosexual and you think heterosexuality is "the way"....

reply to post by ModernAcademia


Because the Elites love starting random # and then laughing at all the idiots with no lives that partake in protests, rallies, or those who extremely agree or disagree with this crap.