TSA, does it have the right?, page 1

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ATS Members have flagged this thread 3 times

Topic started on 18-11-2010 @ 11:03 AM by bekod

Do you think, under the pretense of safety and security, the TSA has the right to take the 4th amendment and chuck it out the window?????Get to Play touchy feely with you, or expose your self to x-rays and to who ever might "see" you. yes this is a 3 part question, i could make it a 4 part, do you think that under the "freedom of religion" some should get free pass?, Or, should all get same treatment. I do not fly , just so you know, under the new laws and TSA's "SS" like tactics, there is now way in "H" i would, i would take the train, bus, boat, car or walk before i let my self be bullied into "what is best for me". Bull! it is control, uncontrolled control.
In my own free thinking we the "sheepole" have let them, the terrorist, win, by letting them put fear into us, and in doing so taking our freedoms away. if one wants to kill you they will!! No law, nor, no one will stop them, they will die and you along with them, we seem to forget this fact.

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 11:08 AM by Exuberant1

Didn't you hear?

Once you purchase plane ticket and go to the airport, you gave up your rights.

That is why they can have nudez made of you and fondle you and your children.

*It is the new logic. All the morons and shills are employing it.

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 11:15 AM by bekod

reply to post by Exuberant1

so you are willing to let them??? what if they said full strip, would you let them?

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 11:23 AM by Exuberant1

reply to post by bekod

I'm old and won't be flying.

However, if I find myself on the jury in a trial where a man is being charged for attacking a TSA worker, I will be voting not guilty.

*Also, if a TSA worker molests your wife or child and you attack them it is a crime of passion and penalties are less for that. I bet there will be more of that.

Edit:

Speaking of which:

Man arrested after punching TSA screener in Indy

edit on 18-11-2010 by Exuberant1 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 11:32 AM by Death_Kron

*sigh*, not this argument again...

The OP seems to think that just because terrorists will always find a way to engage in their horrific acts then we shouldn't bother in trying to stop them at all.

Anyone who has a problem with having a physical pat down has issues that are possibly even more disturbing than an act of terrorism.

I wish people would get off their high horses about "being touched by a stranger"

Simply put, do we risk offending a few prudes in airports with physical pat downs??? or do we stop pat downs all together and risk the danger that they would originally prevent?

All this talk about "letting the terrorists win" is just simple redirection talk on the behalf of people who seem to think that we shouldn't take security precautions anymore for fear of insulting those who are basically insecure about a stranger touching them.

An argument presented the other night was that instead of issuing pat downs simply use metal detector wands and sniffer dogs instead, well as nice a thought as that maybe for you people scared of being touched; a metal detector doesn't reveal a ceramic knife does it?

Finally, before anyone throws the "how far will it go?" argument, there's a massive difference between a simple physical pat down and an internal cavity search, if you the supporters of the OP seem to be under the belief that every man and his dog has his anus checked in airports they really need to do some more research on the subject.

Edit to add: Forgot to mention, nope no one should be exempt. You can't have an effective security policy if you don't apply it to everyone, that's pretty much common sense. Also, comparing the TSA and body pat downs to the actions of the SS is incredulous...

edit on 18/11/10 by Death_Kron because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 11:50 AM by Death_Kron

Originally posted by Exuberant1
reply to post by bekod

*Also, if a TSA worker molests your wife or child and you attack them it is a crime of passion and penalties are less for that. I bet there will be more of that.

Correct me if I'm wrong but are you implying that a physical pat down search is the same as adult sexual abuse or child molestation?

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 11:54 AM by ararisq

Originally posted by Death_Kron
Finally, before anyone throws the "how far will it go?" argument, there's a massive difference between a simple physical pat down and an internal cavity search, if you the supporters of the OP seem to be under the belief that every man and his dog has his anus checked in airports they really need to do some more research on the subject.

There used to be a massive difference in being wanded and having a stranger stick their hands down your wife's pants to feel her labia. Its people with their head in the sand saying there is no slippery slope that keeps dragging us down the slope. You have the leadership of all of this saying that they are suspending your 4th amendment rights. Such a change USED to require amendment to the constitution by votes in all states and majorities in both sides of the congress. Now, an unelected paper pusher can decide whats right for the rest of the 350,000,000 of us. There is a slippery slope and we're sliding quickly to the bottom. Wake up.

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 01:01 PM by bekod

reply to post by Death_Kron

so if you went to the air port one day, or any TSA port and they said strip! all close off, you would? i do not get people like you, yes lets through out the right's we were given in the name of freedom were is the value of this thinking?

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 01:04 PM by bekod

reply to post by ararisq

thank you for seeing the light when we are in dark times, there was a time when the vote counted your voice meant something now ,like you said, a "paper pusher" can tell the rest of us what is right and good for us.

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 01:09 PM by bekod

reply to post by Death_Kron

yes i am, and if you subject your self to such actions,then there is something wrong!
there is a point of defense and then there is abuse, and i think this falls into the later. they could use the wand and sniffers look it up.

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 01:09 PM by LadySkadi

I would argue a better question is this: Is the public safer now, then before? (the body scanners and enhanced pat-downs)... The answer is: we don't know, that's Classified!

__________________
More food for thought: Here

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 01:19 PM by bekod

reply to post by Death_Kron

we let me be the first to say i told you so when all your freedoms are thrown out the window for the name of freedom, safety,and security. and people wonder how Hitler came to power.
an air marshal is there for what? ever here of self defense? my argument is just as strong as yours but mine lets you have your dignity, were theirs takes it.

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 01:35 PM by janon

reply to post by Death_Kron

Are you serious? I'm the one with issues because I don't like random strangers touching me? Really? I'm the one with issues because I don't want to be subjected to invasive searches and treated like a criminal just to get on an airplane? I see you are from the UK and are use to having your rights trampled but that doesn't mean I am willing to give up my 4th Amendment right in the name of false security.

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 01:39 PM by Stryker Ops

reply to post by Death_Kron

Yes, anybody else that came up to you and gave you a pat down that wasn't the government or police officer would get smacked in the face and lawsuit charges put on them. This entire idea is a double standard to the population and children are not going to understand it. It does violate our 4th amendment because it is the government performing said searches and seizures without due process of the law. If it was a private firm doing this then they still do NOT have the right to fondle or perform invasive pat downs in the genital or personal areas of a private citizen. At that point the individual performing said pat down as well as the organization would be liable to stand trial on molestation charges. NOT TO MENTION THERE IS NO DISCLAIMER ANYWHERE when you purchase your ticket or arrive at the airports. IN FACT, The TSA doesn't even report on their own websites that they perform the x-ray or pat-downs (as of this writing). Pat Downs are only if you fail the metal detector multiple times and it doesn't say anything about how invasive they are. This is clearly a violation of a persons privacy. My position is that the entire DHS organization is useless and has a very Nazi style about them. I for one will be arrested if I'm ever subjected to a pat down because the person and any other persons in the area trying to force me will end up in the hospital.

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 01:41 PM by Stryker Ops

reply to post by Stryker Ops

DHS = Department of Homeland Submission

Sorry for the one liner

2nd err umm...8th line.

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 01:44 PM by bekod

if this mess was under my control, that is if i ran the TSA, just my way of thinking, i would make every one go through a full cavity search, full clothes off search!why because that is the only way to really prevent some one from concealing some thing like a knife, powders or guns, think about it, a fanatic will go to all lengths to do his/ her will. this is not protection it is smoke and mirrors. with the act of thinking, making you feel safe. I think it is a way of making you go through the X-ray scanner, maybe there plan is to get enough like me out there and do there work for them, you have three ways to go, X-ray, pat down, er feel up, or do not fly. what got me so worked up? the smugness of the TSA take away the 4th for safety sake??? his response, a out right yes! wrong he should have said what do you suggest we do? and the talk of letting some go by, in the name of religion, no will not happen, what does he do, oh if that is so then so be it???? were is the safety in that, i can see it now here take this gun and knife and bomb they can not pat you down, nor force you into X-ray, see you on the plane.

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 01:46 PM by BigTimeCheater

Originally posted by Death_Kron
*sigh*, not this argument again...

The OP seems to think that just because terrorists will always find a way to engage in their horrific acts then we shouldn't bother in trying to stop them at all.

Anyone who has a problem with having a physical pat down has issues that are possibly even more disturbing than an act of terrorism.

I wish people would get off their high horses about "being touched by a stranger"

Simply put, do we risk offending a few prudes in airports with physical pat downs??? or do we stop pat downs all together and risk the danger that they would originally prevent?

All this talk about "letting the terrorists win" is just simple redirection talk on the behalf of people who seem to think that we shouldn't take security precautions anymore for fear of insulting those who are basically insecure about a stranger touching them.

An argument presented the other night was that instead of issuing pat downs simply use metal detector wands and sniffer dogs instead, well as nice a thought as that maybe for you people scared of being touched; a metal detector doesn't reveal a ceramic knife does it?

Finally, before anyone throws the "how far will it go?" argument, there's a massive difference between a simple physical pat down and an internal cavity search, if you the supporters of the OP seem to be under the belief that every man and his dog has his anus checked in airports they really need to do some more research on the subject.

Edit to add: Forgot to mention, nope no one should be exempt. You can't have an effective security policy if you don't apply it to everyone, that's pretty much common sense. Also, comparing the TSA and body pat downs to the actions of the SS is incredulous...
edit on 18/11/10 by Death_Kron because: (no reason given)

If it wasnt a government agent doing the touching, say just some random person on the street, they would be arrested immediately.

Just because the government does it, doesnt make it right, or legal.

Airport Staff exposed woman's breast, laughed about it afterwards

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 01:52 PM by works4dhs

Originally posted by janon
reply to post by Death_Kron

Are you serious? I'm the one with issues because I don't like random strangers touching me? Really? I'm the one with issues because I don't want to be subjected to invasive searches and treated like a criminal just to get on an airplane? I see you are from the UK and are use to having your rights trampled but that doesn't mean I am willing to give up my 4th Amendment right in the name of false security.

anyone and anything that goes onto the plane must be screened.
images and pat-downs are the only certain methods of screening. the bad guys know our methods and adjust their tactics accordingly. for example, the Chechen bombs a few years ago were women and thus received cursory examination.

www.informationclearinghouse.info...

if, God forbid, we have an *incident*, many of these same complainers will be shreiking about TSA not doing it's job. "Keep me safe!!!"

airports are federal security areas, just as are government buildings. Remember, you don't *have* to fly.

no one enjoys the screening process, screener or passenger. it is an unfortunate necessity / fact of life.

edit on 18-11-2010 by works4dhs because: add sentence

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 01:53 PM by etshrtslr

Originally posted by bekod
reply to post by Death_Kron

so if you went to the air port one day, or any TSA port and they said strip! all close off, you would? i do not get people like you, yes lets through out the right's we were given in the name of freedom were is the value of this thinking?

People that think its a good thing to be groping and fondling innocent women and children or taking naked pictures of them just so they can board an airplane are either sick perverted sexual deviants or pedophiles.....maybe even both.

reply posted on 18-11-2010 @ 01:55 PM by janon

reply to post by works4dhs

"Please comply. We are here for your protection. We work4dhs."

Creepy...

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