Air Force Fighter Jet Missing in Alaska

I am going to bump this back up because of the seriousness of the finding.

reply to post by firepilot


Okay, this isn't Facebook.

This is a conspiracy site, an alternative discussion forum to discuss alternative theories about mostly anything. While it was hasty for some of the theories, it isn't "disrespectful". Stop and think for a second that authorities were asking the same questions before any knowledge was had, on the possibility of a defection or similar event. It's not ludicrous or disrespectful. It's just security and procedure.

People get too serious on this site. Everyone just needs to calm down a little.

Originally posted by SyphonX
reply to post by firepilot

 

Okay, this isn't Facebook.

This is a conspiracy site, an alternative discussion forum to discuss alternative theories about mostly anything. While it was hasty for some of the theories, it isn't "disrespectful". Stop and think for a second that authorities were asking the same questions before any knowledge was had, on the possibility of a defection or similar event. It's not ludicrous or disrespectful. It's just security and procedure.

People get too serious on this site. Everyone just needs to calm down a little.

So why does it being a conspiracy website, that people should have less respect for the missing or dead and come up with insulting allegations? A fighter pilot serving his country lost his life, and its not just that people had some crazy ideas, but starting tossing out ideas of defecting, etc.

And unfortunately, he could not respond because he was dead. I am sure he had more character and integrity than those who made unfounded accusations.

Do they know if it was a STRESS CRACK that caused catastrophic failure i mean if he never ejected, or did he ride it down??
R.I.P

Now_Then attempted a troll, susp3kt bit then the haters started to feast...

you get alot of that here I have noticed and I just started posting. Don't get too lost down the rabbit hole and learn to spot these posters for who they are.

R.I.P soldier...

Originally posted by BobAthome
Do they know if it was a STRESS CRACK that caused catastrophic failure i mean if he never ejected, or did he ride it down??
R.I.P

I am not going to quarterback and try to say I know what happened, because none of us do. I will say that two big causes of accidents in high performance jet aircraft and G induced loss of consciousness, or controlled flight into terrain.

He did not eject or make an unusual radio calls apparently from what was reported. And the F-22 is new enough to not be having any airframe fatigue issues like some of the older F-15s have. The last F-22 loss was a Lockheed test pilot, who had either loss of consciousness or disoriented during a weapons release manuever, and by the time he got his senses back, he was pointed down and fast. He ejected, but going to too fast. Apparently in this case, he did not eject and went in with the aircraft.

Originally posted by firepilot

Originally posted by BobAthome
Do they know if it was a STRESS CRACK that caused catastrophic failure i mean if he never ejected, or did he ride it down??
R.I.P

I am not going to quarterback and try to say I know what happened, because none of us do. I will say that two big causes of accidents in high performance jet aircraft and G induced loss of consciousness, or controlled flight into terrain.

He did not eject or make an unusual radio calls apparently from what was reported. And the F-22 is new enough to not be having any airframe fatigue issues like some of the older F-15s have. The last F-22 loss was a Lockheed test pilot, who had either loss of consciousness or disoriented during a weapons release manuever, and by the time he got his senses back, he was pointed down and fast. He ejected, but going to too fast. Apparently in this case, he did not eject and went in with the aircraft.

Ejection automatic or manual? hydrolics needed? with complete loss of power would he be able to eject?

Ghaya, just ignored my announcement that he had been killed and troll straight on into an all out disagreement fest.

I would have liked some discussion about this but I guess I am not welcome here?

RIP Jeff H.

reply to post by BobAthome

according to sense, that should be manual.

I'm sorry maybe u misunderstood, let me rephrase the question would any other "motive Force" be needed other than what his own natural strenghts would allow,, in other words, would he have needed electrical help to eject?

Originally posted by BobAthome
I'm sorry maybe u misunderstood, let me rephrase the question would any other "motive Force" be needed other than what his own natural strenghts would allow,, in other words, would he have needed electrical help to eject?

No, it is a mechanical process. Having an ejection require the electrical system of the aircraft to be functional, would be counterproductive to needing to eject. It is a mechanical process, requiring a handle to be pulled.

There has been talk of adding a system to the avionics that if the aircraft is about to enter a situation where it is rapidly heading towards terrain, that it would automatically recover the aircraft.

reply to post by firepilot


What removes/disengages the canopy? mear muscle power?

"Having an ejection require the electrical system of the aircraft to be functional, would be counterproductive to needing to eject."
You would think it would be battery powered by now. being it cost 200 mill or so.

The ejection system that is.

Originally posted by BobAthome
"Having an ejection require the electrical system of the aircraft to be functional, would be counterproductive to needing to eject."
You would think it would be battery powered by now. being it cost 200 mill or so.

The ejection system that is.

edit on 20-11-2010 by BobAthome because: (no reason given)

Why would it need any kind of power? Its solely triggered mechanically by the pilot, does not need any outside power to operate. Pull the handle and out you go. Canopy is fired off, and then the seat goes next.

Some jets have explosive cord embedded in the canopy to blow a hole in the glass.

Yes, I think it would be similar to eject hatches in the fuselage of cargo aircraft that use explosive bolts to propel the hatch. Using hydraulics or electronics wouldn't make any sense.

They'll probably never know what caused the crash or why he didn't eject. They have nothing to go on, seeing as how there was radio silence and no cause for alarm prior to the "vanishing".

Originally posted by firepilot
Why would it need any kind of power?

Yep that's about right I would think... I imagine there are maybe a couple of safety pins that are removed just prior to take off and that's it, your sat of a rocket powered seat and all you have to do it yank those 2 loops - I don't think a modern seat has ever failed to work... It's incredibly well made, if it didn't go upwards at a serious rate it's because the pilot didn't or couldn't activate it.

If the F-22 uses a URT series beacon configured similarly to the rest of the ACESII fleet then there's a 25% base chance of failure at seat-man separation. Add the effect of the cold and that number increases.

My gut is telling me we might have a similar scenario to the fatal A-10 crash in Feb 04, in that the pilot ejected too late with too much sink rate and impacted the ground before the seat-man separation cycle could complete itself.

Anyway-
Some additional info from non-DoD sources.

A personal friend of mine owns a semi-remote lodge about 20 miles NNE of the general area of the crash. It's semi-remote because you can drive to it during the summer but the road gets no winter maintenance. The AK Dept of Trans plowed the road out to the lodge yesterday, and the base has already contacted the owners about setting up a command post there for the search/recovery teams.

The area where Capt Haney went down is VERY rough. It's just north of a stretch of the Susitna River named Watana Canyon. There are numerous feeder stream and tributaries on the north side that run through tight, steep canyons themselves.

If he ejected and got a good chute there is a strong possibility he decended into, literally, a crack in the ground. If he did get out there he also is likely injured from contact with the ground.

That country has little flat ground and what there is of it is choked with thick stands of alder 20' tall. If he landed in an alder patch and got a dusting of snow on his chute he'd be as good as invisible.

Keep a candle burning folks, there's still a sliver of hope.

If he ejected and got a good chute there is a strong possibility he decended into, literally, a crack in the ground. If he did get out there he also is likely injured from contact with the ground.

They already said that he did not eject, seat found in the wreckage I believe

You have to remember Rumsfeld wanted to create "joint bases" to operate cheaper. The quality of aircraft support isn't what it used to. Since we're operating on the cheap now there are bound to be failures.

A simple conspiracy theory such as maybe they contracted out vehicle maintenance and the contractor wasn't making sure the water separator was working correctly on the jetfuel refueling trucks resulting in water being pumped into aircrafts fuel tanks.....

Its just a conspiracy theory....but things like that are bound to happen now that we are operating on the super cheap. Which brings up why are we buying super expensive planes in small numbers when we should be buying lots of cheaper planes to account for the losses we will take since we are operating on the cheap under 'joint basing'.

So I blame Rumsfeld for the F-22 crash.

Not sure if this has been posted.

Search and rescue teams are looking for a U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor and its pilot that went missing during a flight over Alaska late Tuesday, military officials said. The officials said the advanced stealth fighter jet was about 90 miles northeast of Elmendorf Air Force Base when it "dropped off the radar." There was no mayday or any other communication from the pilot that would have indicated the plane was in trouble, the officials said. There have been no distress calls from the pilot since the plane went missing. U.S. military helicopters and at least one C-130 have so far failed to turn up any sign of the missing fighter jet. Base spokeswoman Corinna Jones told The Associated Press Tuesday night that the pilot was the only person in the craft, which was on a training mission. Air traffic control lost contact with the jet at 7:40 p.m. Alaska time, she added. Jones declined to identify the pilot, but noted the aircraft is assigned to Elmendorf's 3rd Wing. Weather conditions in nearby Anchorage at the time the jet lost contact were fair. Earlier this year, a C-17 cargo plane also assigned to Elmendorf's 3rd Wing crashed while on a training demonstration in advance of a popular air show.

Situation Update No. 2
On 18.11.2010 at 10:05 GMT+2

Searchers are holding out hope, but have found no sign of the pilot of an Air Force F-22 fighter jet that crashed in a remote area of interior Alaska. The jet was nearing the end of a training mission Tuesday night when ground radar lost track of it. Rescue aircraft spotted the wreckage Wednesday morning, and a helicopter was able to land at the crash site in the afternoon. Alaska National Guard spokesman Maj. Guy Hayes says pararescuers found no sign of the pilot. Searchers are leaving the site for the night, but Hayes says an air search will continue, looking for a campfire, a parachute or ejection seat. Pilots carry survival gear and are trained for Arctic conditions. The pilot's name has not been released. The twin-engine F-22 Raptor entered service in the mid-2000s and arrived at Elmendorf in August 2007. It's far more maneuverable and stealthy than earlier jets and can cruise at more than 1 1/2 times the speed of sound without using its afterburner. Its top speed is confidential. Congress last year stopped production of the plane, built by Lockheed Martin Corp., by eliminating $1.75 billion that would have added seven F-22s to the Air Force's fleet. An F-22 crashed in March 2009 near Edwards Air Force Base in California, killing the pilot. Air Force officials say the crash site is about 100 miles north of Anchorage, near Denali National Park.

Situation Update No. 1
On 18.11.2010 at 04:37 GMT+2

A rescue plane has discovered the wreckage of an U.S. Air Force F-22 Raptor fighter jet that went missing Tuesday night, the Elmendorf-Richardson airbase in Alaska said in a statement on Wednesday. The fighter jet lost contact with air traffic control at 7:40 p.m. Alaska time Tuesday (04:40 GMT on Wednesday) while on a night-time training mission. The crash site has been located at about 160 kilometers north of Anchorage. A rescue team is searching for a missing pilot, the airbase said in a statement. F-22 is a single-seat, twin-engine fifth-generation fighter aircraft that uses stealth technology. The $150-mln plane entered service with the USAF in 2005. Over 160 F-22s have been built by Lockheed Martin with projected goal of 187 aircraft. The export sale of the F-22 is prohibited by U.S. federal law. The USAF already lost two F-22s – during takeoff at Nellis Air Force Base in December 2004 and during a test flight near Edwards Air Force Base in March 2009.

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