WACO: The Murders At Mt Carmel

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posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 08:54 AM
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I watched that day as the government tanks rolled in and started punching holes into the church at Mt Carmel and watched as the tanks set fire to the building as 74 men women and children burned to death. I was shocked and in disbelief that our government could do this.

This was the day that I saw TPTB for who they really were. MURDERERS, who would kill their own citizens for no reason. They originally went there to serve a warrant for an illegal weapon. All the evidence I have seen is that the ATF started shooting first, which made the people inside shoot back in self defense.

There is a video series that I just finished watching that lays out all the evidence. It even shows that when the church was on fire, and people were trying to go out the back, that there were ATF or military, firing rapid fire automatic weapons to block their escape from the building.

WHY the hell were never any charges brought against these murderers? This has made me sick for years, ever since that day in April of 1993. THIS is what your government will do if you get out of line. This incident was no better than what HITLER might have done.

The video Waco:Rules Of Engagement is 14 videos lasting around 10 minutes each. If you have never watched it, it is a must see. I learned things I didn't know. Here is the first one.
www.youtube.com...

If you just want to see most of the evidence, it is in the last two starting with this one,
www.youtube.com...

If you can watch all the videos, you will understand what the government did that day, and NOT what they told us that happened.

(Sorry about posting the Title before the story, for those who clicked on it before I was done)
edit on 17-11-2010 by kennylee because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 09:07 AM
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Explanation: Uhmmm???


Waco Siege [wiki]


The Waco Siege began on February 28, 1993, and ended violently 50 days later on April 19.[2] The siege began when the United States Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives (ATF) attempted to execute a search warrant at the Branch Davidian ranch at Mount Carmel, a property located nine miles (14 km) east-northeast of Waco, Texas. On February 28, shortly after the attempt to serve the warrant, an intense gun battle erupted, lasting nearly 2 hours. In the aftermath of this armed exchange, four agents and six followers of David Koresh were killed. Upon the ATF's failure to execute the search warrant, a siege was initiated by the Federal Bureau of Investigation. The siege ended 50 days later when a second assault on the compound was made and a fire destroyed the compound. Seventy-six people (24 of them British nationals)[3] died in the fire, including more than 20 children, two pregnant women, and Koresh himself.


It was murder plain and simple and I can fully understand how it led directly to the Oklahoma Bombing and was also a continuation of the lethal ROE [rules of engagement] that were employed at Ruby Ridge!

Personal Disclosure: Thanks for the opportunity to remind everybody about this but I have no idea why you redacted your post???
[would have S&F! otherwise ]



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 09:25 AM
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Explanation: S&F! Thanks for reposting!


Personal Disclosure: Just those 3 incidents would have given me completely valid excuse to tear up the US constitution and live by the law of the jungle! 3 fails in a row under same administration and yet the US citizens do NOTHING!
The Bush administration that came afterwards did the same thing GLOBALLY! Now the Obama administration is engaging in financial warfare with China that they can't afford!

B.Bernanke's $600 Billion U$D Bail-out Blow-out! Back of the envelope deconstruction! (by OmegaLogos) [ATS]


Now just using my back of the envelope figures neither the richest 2% OR the poorest 20% could pay off this DEBT [which is also incurring interest but we'll overlook that for the moment] with the collective money either of those demographics pull in within a single year timeframe!


The US is so freaking Scroomed!!!



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 09:26 AM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 

Sorry about the post. I accidentally posted the title before I wrote the post.

Our government should be held responsible for these murders. In one of the last two videos, our fearless Vice President Joe Fn' Biden declares that after all the evidence, the ATF didn't do anything wrong. How unbelievable! And this guy is second in charge of our country today?

These videos show taped phone calls between Koresh and the ATF and FBI during the seige. It shows the people inside begging the ATF to stop firing on them because of the women and children. It shows Koresh with a gunshot through his side. It shows all the video that the people on the inside took during the seige. The ATF gave them a camera to take these videos but never released them.

America believed the lies of the government back then. They just shook their heads and went on with life. Now there are a lot of sheeple waking up. WACO was the most terrible thing IMO in the history of our country. I don't know how they can sleep at night knowing what they did......



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 09:33 AM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 

You Said: Personal Disclosure: Just those 3 incidents would have given me completely valid excuse to tear up the US constitution and live by the law of the jungle! 3 fails in a row under same administration and yet the US citizens do NOTHING!

I believe if something like that happened today, the people wouldn't sit still. I could be wrong, but the people are really fed up with TPTB now. I know thousands who are training and for that day because they know the government will do something outrageous again, through False Flag or through something like Waco.

I for one am totally pissed off and sick of how this country is falling because of TPTB. People are ready to take their country back from this murdering regime...

edit on 17-11-2010 by kennylee because: to correct spelling



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 09:34 AM
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Waco and Ruby Ridge happening when I was a kid pretty much shaped my perspective on government and authority in general.

The best part with Waco is when the victims filed a class action suit against the government using RICO terms the gov just decided it would ignore them.

It can crush and kill you at any moment it chooses for no reason at all and when you question it or revolt it just ignores you.

That's every government on this Earth. That's every authoritarian. They're all the same.

All you have to do to get yourself killed by the government is mind your own business and not bother anyone. That's a death sentence.



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 09:34 AM
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reply to post by kennylee
 

Explanation: I'm an Australian but I take a great interest in my nations supposed allies!

I think I showed that either side of the US political spectrum isn't interested in being fair at all and as usual its us Humans who have our rights trampled on...


PREAMBLE
Whereas recognition of the inherent dignity and of the equal and inalienable rights of all members of the human family is the foundation of freedom, justice and peace in the world,

Whereas disregard and contempt for human rights have resulted in barbarous acts which have outraged the conscience of mankind, and the advent of a world in which human beings shall enjoy freedom of speech and belief and freedom from fear and want has been proclaimed as the highest aspiration of the common people,

Whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law,


Universal Declaration of Human Rights [un.org]

I do note that that document superceeds all others ...


Article 1.
•All human beings are born free and equal in dignity and rights.They are endowed with reason and conscience and should act towards one another in a spirit of brotherhood.

Article 2.
•Everyone is entitled to all the rights and freedoms set forth in this Declaration, without distinction of any kind, such as race, colour, sex, language, religion, political or other opinion, national or social origin, property, birth or other status. Furthermore, no distinction shall be made on the basis of the political, jurisdictional or international status of the country or territory to which a person belongs, whether it be independent, trust, non-self-governing or under any other limitation of sovereignty.



Personal Disclosure: I can't sleep at night due to the above and I spend that time planning my revenge! I'm not just going to kill them!



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 09:43 AM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 

I haven't really slept good since Waco. It made me realize that I wasn't safe inside my own country, when they can come and murder you for any reason they make up and get by with it. I have no doubt that I am one of the thousands of American Citizens that are now on their Watchlist and I really don't care anymore.

If it makes me a Domestic Terrorist for standing up for what is right, then that is what I am......



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 09:50 AM
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yes i too remember that day and times of our past, then you ask me how i think TPTB can kill 3000+ on 9/11? do i need to say more. ruby ridge is an other, i you can kill a few or one then you can kill a lot or all.ATF all thinkers fall, FBI freedom bashed in.
edit on 17-11-2010 by bekod because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 09:56 AM
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reply to post by bekod
 


I was one to believe that 911 happened like the media said it did until I watched the Waco:Rules Of Engagement videos and saw how they lied about killing those 74 people. I now really question 911. And to answer your question... No, you need not say anymore... it is so obvious what TPTB will do....



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 10:01 AM
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reply to post by kennylee
 

Explanation: I'm a monster and in my eyes worse than TPTB... but at least I have a human heart [my only blessing and also a curse] and it is willing to kill and be killed for this and only this...

Universal Declaration of Human Rights [un.org]

It is my independant and accurate moral compass and standard and I LIVE BY IT by enforcing personally its rules locally at all times! I have my map of last resorts and it is amazing how quikly I can be pushed there!

Persona Disclosure: I don't care who they think they are... if they don't agree with it ... then they aren't human and this universe isn't big enough for 2 monsters and I will hunt down, kill and eat them!

Be Civilized and Be Human or Be Eaten! Its the Law!, The Law of the Jungle! I'm enforcing my end, are you?



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 10:07 AM
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reply to post by OmegaLogos
 

I'd like to hear more of your map of last resorts. You can PM me if you want with any info you think would be of use to me. Thanks...



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 10:18 AM
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Originally posted by kennylee
reply to post by bekod
 


I was one to believe that 911 happened like the media said it did until I watched the Waco:Rules Of Engagement videos and saw how they lied about killing those 74 people. I now really question 911. And to answer your question... No, you need not say anymore... it is so obvious what TPTB will do....



Waco: Rules of Engagement has filled me with a lifelong hate (OK maybe hate is a strong word) for my "Democratic" senator, Chuck Schumer. The way he acted in that hearing was a disgrace to the American people, and I cant believe he keeps getting re-elected.



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


Same here. If I ever see the man on the street I'll jam my thumbs into his eye sockets.

Since he continues to be re-elected one can only conclude that his constituents share his perspective and his contempt.



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 10:25 AM
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I wonder how retired General Wesley Clark sleeps at night.

He's the guy that released US Army ordinance which was used to kill those women and children.

ATF could have caught that 1 guy in town shopping on multiple occasions. What they did was premeditated murder.

Why? Because those people weren't smart enough to buy off politicians. There is a muslim/hindu cult called 3HO which has a larger complex than Waco. The only reason they exist is because they give lots of money to politicians. So politicians returned the favor and gave that Cult the contract to provide contract security for White Sands, NM and the Oklahoma City Federal Building. After they failed to secure the Oklahoma building and it blew up they changed the name of their Defense Security Contractor and....got hundreds of more contracts providing security for Federal/Military installations all around the globe.

It was all about money. The system the Waco people were running was keeping their welfare inside the gate and not going into politicians pockets. So they were murdered.
edit on 17-11-2010 by Pervius because: spellin'
edit on 17-11-2010 by Pervius because: spellin'



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 10:29 AM
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reply to post by kennylee
 

Explanation: You serious rock! 1st person to seriously enquire about it [the map]!!! St*rred!

Its this simple...

1st you MUST wait... either because you already know and are waiting for timing and placement or you don't know and are in the process of learning!

2nd If you are not waiting then you are engaging with the local reality in negotiation [carrot and stick] fashion.

2a Once is both experience and happenstance!

2b Twice is both indulgence and co-incidence!

2c. Thrice is an addiction and an act of war!

Offer Carrot and show the Stick... encourage them to take the carrot and avoid the stick! If they require the stick a third time in a row [you'd better of offered a big carrot ok] then its completely AOK to...

3 KILL AND REPLACE them! NOTE One must replace what one has killed because nature abhores a vacuum ok!

Negotiation happens only under 2a/b/c and is fully covered by the laws of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights and if pushed to ones last restort it endorses No#3!

Personal Disclosure: I hope that helps!



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 10:36 AM
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reply to post by aching_knuckles
 


I didn't really know Chuck Schumer until I saw this video. It is unbelievable that he could say the things he said about this incident, especially with all the evidence that was shown. It just shows that they all stick together no matter what.

It's hard to believe that Waco could be swept under the rug like it was. This is one instance that the UN Human Rights Commission should have stepped in but they didn't.

The people at Mt Carmel were sentenced to death by the ATF, FBI, and National Guard, without a trial. You said hate was a strong word. IMO, I don't think it is......



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by kennylee
 


edit on 17-11-2010 by mamabeth because: too painful



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 11:02 AM
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I am sure I will regret this. I have gone back and forth too many times on this one. Firstly those who wish to re-write history should have ALL of the facts before doing so. Both Waco and Ruby Ridge come down to 2 things in my opinion, humans behaving as humans do, and humans acting in a cowardly manner.

Do yourself a favor and research how Vernon TOOK control of the “church”, lol. He did it through violence using automatic weapons. Very Christ like in my opinion. They tried to get him to come in peacefully he refused. He was stockpiling illegal arms, and everyone knew this. He was accused of engaging in sexual conduct with minors, later verified. Look up KIRI. So why on earth would ANYONE defend this man?

Here is the quick fact of the matter plain and simple. Man with badge says come in for questioning, law abiding citizens comply. By not complying you are giving up your rights and putting them in the hands of another. Expecting human beings to behave like machines is ludicrous. All of those people at Waco and Ruby would more than likely still be alive had the cowards simply done as they were asked. Innocent men have nothing to fear. If in the case of Ruby you are being set up, then you go to court and show the jury just how evil the Government can be. If you ask me the moral of the story is this; If you have something to hide do not play chicken with law enforcement, you will lose every time. In my opinion had those men just showed enough guts and behaved like men instead of cowards, history would read quit differently . The righteous have nothing to fear, and if one truly believes in their god they should know there is nothing to fear. We have due process for a reason, sting/set up or not. You will have your day in court.

If you ask me both of them were cowards plain and simple and their cowardice caused more pain and suffering than one can imagine. Did they (ATF, ETC.) bungle the raids? Oh heck yes. But what do you expect? Do not take away law enforcements options, looking back through history it is easy to see what happens when you do. It was not about religious freedom it was about a washed up rock and roll wannabe that was out of options, and was hiding behind religion as a means to break the law. I have no idea how anyone could defend this guy.

Ok I am really going to regret this I am sure, but I imagine I have far more claim to those religions than any other person alive, but I could care less. I don’t believe in it. However, my name, blood, and DNA can be traced right back to the beginning of the “Baptists” here in the U.S. Of course that ”claim” and $5.00 will get me a cup of coffee at Starbucks. Vernon/Koresh was an abomination and he got what he deserved, and if there is a god I am sure he will pay

Lastly all I can say is this; Look up the facts before jumping off the cliff for the wrong cause, there is a time and a place to make a stand, and nether of these were it. I have no respect for those who would let others die in their stead. . I tend to be a drive by poster and doubt I will be back to read any further. As I type so slowly I would be days trying to respond to any rebuttals. It took me well over an hour just to compose this and it is not up to my standards by a long shot. Have a good day and thanks for reading.



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 11:04 AM
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reply to post by kennylee
 
do not for get janet renio, DOJ, dudes on junk, that gave the ok. For even tptb have TPTB.






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