UPS902 Contrail Science plane theory debunked

Originally posted by Phage
Do you think that because Photoshop was used to download an image from a camera that indicates something in particular?

and just to add insult to injury

Photoshop does NOT add it's signature
to an image that is just downloaded.
it only adds it if it's been altered.
Busted again.

take it somewhere else Phage
lies, lies, lies

reply to post by boondock-saint

No.
It adds it when an image is saved.
For example, from one of the images:

xmpMM:History

* rdf:Seq
o rdf:li
+ stEvt:action = "saved"
+ stEvt:instanceID = "xmp.iid:08801174072068118DBBC28B45CB8315"
+ stEvt:when = "2010-11-10T15:48:36-08:00"
+ stEvt:softwareAgent = "Adobe Photoshop CS5 Macintosh"
+ stEvt:changed = "/"
o rdf:li
+ stEvt:action = "saved"
+ stEvt:instanceID = "xmp.iid:09801174072068118DBBC28B45CB8315"
+ stEvt:when = "2010-11-10T15:49:27-08:00"
+ stEvt:softwareAgent = "Adobe Photoshop CS5 Macintosh"
+ stEvt:changed = "/"
o rdf:li
+ stEvt:action = "saved"
+ stEvt:instanceID = "xmp.iid:0A801174072068118DBBC28B45CB8315"
+ stEvt:when = "2010-11-10T15:50:05-08:00"
+ stEvt:softwareAgent = "Adobe Photoshop CS5 Macintosh"
+ stEvt:changed = "/"

Thrice in less than two minutes.

That is quite enough with the personal insults and snide comments..

Any more will result in Warnings and possible Post Bans..

Fair Warning

Semper

Here are the original photos taken by Rick Warren from his balcony in long beach. The zip file contains the location of the viewpoint, and the track of flight UPS902.

contrailscience.com...

Originally posted by Agent_USA_Supporter
Why did the plane believers change there flight number from 808 to 902?

Because the initial assessment was made solely on the KCBS footage, and the exact time, location and altitude of the camera was unknown, so things were approximate.

When Rick Warren's photos emerged, and then the LAX web cam, we had photos from know position and times, and the 902 flight was a perfect fit

reply to post by Agent_USA_Supporter

I think your the one whose deflecting my question aimed at you.

See the difference is that I will answer all your questions here...and then I'm going to ask you the same question I have asked 3 or 4 times. Let's see if you will answer then.

Why did the plane believers change there flight number from 808 to 902?

Because we are all logical people, and when new evidence presents itself, or old evidence is shown to have faults...we take that into consideration.

At first, 808 looked like a good candidate...after researching it, by the way it was the same people researching the flight paths as it was who came up with the theory in the first place, they found that 808 didn't match very well with the contrail. So they looked for a better match...and they found 902. Why didn't they find 902 first...well it was because they were looking at only commercial flights at first.

So they found a problem with 808...admitted it...kept searching...and found a flight that matches the time and area of the contrail.

This is what logical people do...look at evidence...and dismiss it if it isn't correct.

Why haven't the pilots came forward yet to admit it was there plane that made the contrail?

Do you really think pilots have a rear view mirror that they are looking at checking to see if they are leaving a contrail? Do you think they spend much time trying to see behind their plane? Have you ever flown in a plane...were you aware when the plane was leaving a contrail?

This is a pretty silly question...don't you think so?

or better yet the airport to admit it was there plane? usually airports do that, give a confirmation, the same confirmation if they have a terrorist on aboard or something else is happening on the plane.

Airports give confirmation of contrails? Are you serious? Have you ever heard of an airport releasing reports of "contrails"? I am pretty sure they don't even care if a plane is leaving a contrail.

WHY would they consider this as something "happening on the plane"???

Nice try plane believer.

I'm not sure why you think you have made a point here?

Plane flight tracks don't mean that much as proof and usually planes can change there in flight movements

What? Radar tracking data doesn't mean much as proof? What do you mean planes can change their flight movements...I don't even know what that means??? IF they change their flight path...the radar would pick it up. And the people that have plotted this flight path on these pictures used radar data. Again...no point is being made here.




So, I answered ALL your questions. Now it's your turn. It's a very simple question. I'm not sure why I have to keep asking it...because if this is what you believe...it should be easy to answer. So here it is...for the 3rd or 4th time. Please try to answer this time.

What evidence do you have that this was a missile?

reply to post by boondock-saint


I like that one BS

Agree with you

It takes a very big man to do what I am about to do.
You may wanna listen up cuz u might not hear it
again for a very long while

After very careful scrutiny of the pics of Rick Warren
in a photo editor I have come to a new conclusion.
The pics are authentic indeed. I found no traces
of tampering or overlaying all the way down
to the pixel level. Other than a few anomolies
which I could attribute to shutter speed and/or
digital imaging flaws they are flawless.

My sincerest apologies go out to Rick Warren
and Contrail Science. From the evidence I saw
in the original pics, their work on the flight path
of UPS902 was flawless. I will have to say
good job to them. I even saw the puke brown UPS
color on the plane (no, I didn't say that, lol).

Now, on to my story, it seems that I did my
original assessment with some flawed photos.
Sometimes that happens when you are in a rush
to archive and store anything and everything about
a particular event. So it was basically my haste and
flawed pics which caused the improper hypothesis.

My apologies also go out to Phage, Weedwhacker,
Outkast Searcher and quite a few others who were on
the plane theory bandwagon. Nobody likes to be wrong
especially me. But in this particular case, you were
right and I was wrong. Make sure you save this post
so you can remind me of it in the future lmao

I yield to the plane theory. The LA Missile Video
has been confirmed by me to be UPS902.
Please disregard any previous evidence or
statements by me to the contrary.

I am a man of truth, courage and honor
which is why you are reading this statement
instead of hearing silence. I would never lead you
astray knowing it to be a lie. And this
is the main reason why I am here on ATS
is to find the truth in all matters.

God bless you all and
I hope you forgive me
for being wrong and
for being a jerk.

boon

ps: I just wonder if those UPS Pilots
know just how much controversy they
have caused??? lmao

Kudos, BDS, for being man enough to admit that. Seems a rare asset indeed to admit the human ability to be wrong.

reply to post by boondock-saint


boondock...much respect to you for that post.

But this is what ATS is about right...hashing out different theories to attempt to come to a conclusion and use the evidence we can find to help us out. Most of that evidence won't be perfect...but we can only use the best that is available to us.

Star for you.

reply to post by boondock-saint

Stud move brother!


second

reply to post by boondock-saint


This is what ATS is all about, I just wish you guys could get to points like this sans all the bickering. A classic example of how misinterpreted information combined with a rush to judgment causes unholy in-fighting.

Hats off to Boondock for admitting the reality after taking the time to review all the facts, however I have to mention that next time it would be beneficial to take the time to review all the facts BEFORE closing the door on the mundane possibilities.

When you don't know of what you speak it pays to listen to the people who do, no matter how POSITIVE you might think you are. The details you don't know or understand (the Photoshop tags in the exif data in this case being one) will get you every time.

It's one thing to express a theory, put it out there for discussion/debate, it's quite another to declare it as fact and get in the faces of those who have more knowledge when they disagree.

Springer...

Wow Boondock I don't know what it is exactly that changed your mind like this but welcome to the side of reason. Can you now see how frustrating it was for "planers" to listen to all this nonsense claimed as fact? Can the 3 threads, this one, the China sub one by Human_Alien, and Boondocks "plane theory blown out of the sky" please be posted somewhere on ATS as a sort of "don't do this" for new users to read?

I am sorry but for all the insults and certainty that was thrown at reasonable people over the last 2 weeks by these "missile" users Boondock finally admitting he is wrong just doesn't make everything OK. ATS you allowed this to go on with multiple threads none of which had any kind of proof what soever, why I don't know but I hope it was some kind of lesson and not just that you thought these ridiculous ideas were valid. I am sure this will be called off topic but I am pissed off that this was allowed to go on and a simple apology makes it all OK.

Now when this happens in the future the same players make the same mistakes and we are supposed to just shrug it off and say oh silly them?

Now I will seal my fate I am sure, but this is ridiculous. Here he is after causing all this he posts how he is a big man now? No new facts came out today or yesterday, you had all this information the entire time and you just now coming to this realization makes you some kind of martyr or something? I am supposed to congratulate you that it took you 2 weeks to come to the same conclusion that we all did after telling us your nonsense ideas were facts the whole time? I am supposed to star and flag you now? This is absolutely ridiculous. I am not proud of you Boondock, I loath you for thinking that you apologizing was anything but warranted and that you think it brings you up a notch for doing it. Ridiculous.

reply to post by sputniksteve


You certainly "sealed your fate" IMO.

I am not proud of you Boondock, I loath you for thinking that you apologizing was anything but warranted and that you think it brings you up a notch for doing it. Ridiculous.

You're not *proud* because he questioned this very confusing contrail that even confused the pentagon, pilots, ex-generals etc (some STILL are confused).. and you LOATHE him for saying he's now convinced it's a plane? What the hell is wrong with people? It's "ridiculous" to discuss the issues that aren't so *obvious* to someone so honored like you?? Unbelievable. Lets just take all future discussions off the table. Lets never question anything, we might upset "sputniksteve",

Edit: Star for your post Boondock.

reply to post by Wookiep


Unfortunately that is not how it went down. I was involved in each thread all the way from the beginning. I don't think there is anything wrong with questioning things. I too thought it was a missile until I investigated and saw the evidence that was presented. I never said anything was obvious at all, on the contrary. I said it was very difficult to realize the truth and you had to think critically and use your head.

However for the last week from the Missile crowd I was called all sorts of names and ridiculed and criticized for coming to this conclusion by myself. Meanwhile people are claiming it was a missile shot from a Chinese sub as a "shot off the bow" and are somehow credible. I think what Boondock did apologizing was the right thing, but it doesn't make you mature or better then anyone else. If you are wrong you apologize and say you were wrong, period. You don't make a show of it, you do it humbly.

I will edit to say, obviously Boondock doesn't care what I think about him, nor what they thought about me. But if they are allowed to create threads that have absolutely no credibility at all and those thrive, I should at least be able to voice my opinion that this whole thing just sucks. We will see I guess huh.

A big star for you Boondock not just for being man enough to admit you made an error but also for having the cojones to stick by your beliefs and to try and get under the skin of the issue..

This question may be a bit late but hopefully pertinent ... if it had been proved beyond doubt that it was indeed a missile. what would anyone here have done about it? That for me is always the underlying question in all the conspiracies that are debated on ATS - peace to all

bB

reply to post by sputniksteve


He presented a few arguments and they ultimately didn't end up in his favor. Whats the big deal? He realized he was wrong and expressed it on the board. Do you see that happen often? Are you saying that ATS shouldn't have allowed him to present his arguments? He's personally offended you to the point where you loathe him? lol. You need to relax.

reply to post by Wookiep


I am sure it sounds and looks bad from your point of view. If you want to go back and read all 3 threads from the beginning it might shed some light on how this all really went down. I don't know what else to tell you, you don't like what I said thats cool, you think I am petty for getting upset over it thats cool. All I did was share my thoughts and feelings on this user and this topic, are you saying I shouldn't be able to do that? See how things can get turned around?

I am not going to argue with you over this. It is what it is, if you don't understand why I feel the way I do that is fine with me. If you want to idolize Boondock saint that is cool with me too, I just see things from a different point of view. During these discussions not everyone acted the way you assume they acted.

Originally posted by Uncinus
Here are the original photos taken by Rick Warren from his balcony in long beach. The zip file contains the location of the viewpoint, and the track of flight UPS902.

contrailscience.com...

edit on 18-11-2010 by Uncinus because: (no reason given)

OK. I have checked the contrailscience.com, but I don't understand the following picture on their website:



Why does the small contrail always face TOWARD the camera, rather than align with the radar track, which is said to be the actual flight route of UPS902?

reply to post by boondock-saint


I've had to admit I was wrong before too on this forum, it definately sucks having to do it, but proves your maturity. Your passion in this field is a breath of fresh air and the participation of Phage, Wheedwhacker, Oz Weatherman, Outkast Searcher, etc was awesome. Like Springer said, hopefully we can get to these points without all of the bickering. This was a very frustrating yet interesting thread to read!