FERMILAB Experiments Show Hints of NEW PARTICLE !!!

I heard FermiLab was fighting for its life / funding. Any news that comes out is suspect to me.

reply to post by onequestion


I love reading about the observer effect.
I always think and relate them to humans. How do you act different when you know you are being watched? Very.

If I'm not mistaken this is huge

If not the biggest thing I've ever read on these forums

I can't wait to see this unfold and maybe lead down the road to our 'more accurate' science books

It's things like this that remind me of what science has not revealed, and the amazing potential we have inside all of us

I can't even begin to imagine what our science books will be like in 200 years, if books are not obsolete by then..

More reason why I want to pursue the science field in college, to me there is no other field that is so interesting and complex.

May the force be with you, and may I be with the force

Originally posted by FalselyFlagged
reply to post by stirling

 

Wow. Big news. Immune to the weak force... I want to know more.

Too bad nobody on ATS will care. They all like to think they're nerds, and ufologists, but only when the term "ufologist" means watching 20 second youtube clips of blurry airplanes, and only when the term nerd means being awkward with the ladies.

Watch as the biggest news in physics since the discovery of dark energy in the late 20th century gets washed down the board to the bone yard of dead threads.

And then watch how all the involved scientists at Fermi-labs lose their grants and get blacklisted in the industry for going against the grain. The science police can't put up with these terrorist acts on their beloved, impeccable theories.. The same theories which can't even explain why an electron doesn't crash into the nucleus...

edit on 17-11-2010 by FalselyFlagged because: (no reason given)

Glad we have you to trash the rest of us, ALL KNOWING SAGE --

FalselyFlagged!

This subject matter was posted in a prior thread of 15 days earlier:

"Fermilab Strikes Again: Physics experiment suggests existence of new particle"
www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by spacebot


Hi there

the amount of money spent on r & d by governments is a tiny drop in the bucket compared to "defense" spending

in thirty years when we have nanobots fighting diseases we will have 20/20 hindsight over the laws of physics that had evolved due to the "money siphoning" of scientific research

however in twenty years we are going to hear some messed up story about how haliburton war profiteered and did all sorts of questionable stuff because the governments at the time took advantage of the mob mentality

that is all

may science upgrade you

I hope everyone reads this. The best post of the day! star and flag!

Originally posted by stirling
fermilab is engaged in neutrino research.A side shoot of this endeavor is showing promise of revealing a brand new particle.
not only a new particle, but perhaps the answer to the darkmatter theory and other breakthroughs as well?
This just may be the one that puts us into the heart of quantum reality folks.....

www.popsci.com...

Interesting experimental result at fermilab and indeed some interesting replies in the thread.
While the standard model will continue to be improved upon or indeed rewritten, it does not require neutrinos of any flavor or a sterile neutrino for gravity/ time manipulation / gravitic drives /starships etc.
No need to wish that such a tecnology will surface in your lifetime, it is already here.
While particle accelerators have their uses in probing the atom, no tech spinoffs of any practical use ( evcept the internet ) have been acheived.

reply to post by onequestion


In my opinion, the so called observer was shooting photons at the experiment in order to make the observations. The whole observer created reality belief is pinned on a basic misunderstanding of the double slit experiment.

Observation requires interaction. Interaction between fields causes transitions. Transitions emit or capture energy ripples which we happen to call photons. Photons are events of interaction rather than particles, The entire misunderstanding comes from thinking of them as particles and then trying to explain their interactions under that framework, but photons are really events.

Potential fields exchanging energy is all there is, and ripples of energy exchange are waves, and when those waves coalesce into energy vortices (i.e. electrons) they give energy to them. at that moment we say that a photon hit an electron and increased its energy, but in fact this so called photon had no material existence until the point of the quantum transition.

Because transitions and fields is all there is for us to observe and measure, no wonder we have tried to formualte physics in terms of the transitions as if they were entities in their own right, and that fuels the logical contradictions and dualities that plague the standard model.

Einstein was on the right path, but when he chose to use Riemann geometry and discarded torsion he killed his chances for GR to include electromagnetism.

Maxwell was in the right path, but when Heaviside threw away the scalar fields (believing they were purely excess mathematical baggage) he left us with an understanding of electromagnetism that, while useful enough to invent radios, lacks an adequate explanation for various phenomena such as the Aharonov Bohm effect, or the very existence of a magnetic wave in space. The math is good to explain what happens at the antennas, and we assume the fields are "force" fields, but there is no such thing as "force" in space. Forces are always experienced in matter. So without potentials we are left with a theory of electromagnetism that handwaves the whole mechanism by which the magnetic and electric components are able to exist, hold information and propagate. The theory is, however, still good at explaining what happens at the antennas (matter) which is all that has mattered...... at least so far.


I think that a good candidate at the moment for a unified theory is Einstein Cartan Evans unified field theory.

It's very simple: it starts with relativity, and it brings back the torsion that got thrown away long ago. From that simple detail it explains spiral galaxies, conservation of polarization of light when reflected, so called "dark matter" (there is no such thing, the lack of torsion in GR creates predictions that don't agree with reality so we make up the dark matter excuse to explain the situation without giving up flawed theories that, while they are good enough to launch satellites, they break down at cosmological scales.

It also allows derivation of the original Maxwell Equations and experiments such as Aharonov and Bohm's are no longer anomalies but are predicted.

-rrr

reply to post by stirling


Very nice. Everyone thought the LHC would find the Higgs Boson or "God" particle to support the standard model. But nooo, Fermilab finds a brand new particle that does not support the standard model! Well science is like that we look and we find. It's is also why it's hard to get funding, because we don't know what we are going to find.

Dark matter, Dark Energy and Dark flow really shows how ignorant we really are and I imagine they will be discussing new mysteries in the 22nd century. It just gets curisior and curisior and I love it.

Wow, there goes the idea that “Science is Logical”. It’s amazing that today we have a new method to manipulate the neutrino in a lab. We have some of the best Scientists in the world. I hope they win the National Medal of Science! I hope they use this knowledge for the better of humanity.

reply to post by stirling


OH PLEASE!!

I posted this 2 AND A HALF WEEKS AGO!!!

This keeps happening and I'm getting a bit fed up with it to be honest.

Use the search function, 80 odd flags? I don't know why I bother...

Existing thread, November 2nd...

Puleese!
Yerownself...
I figure you can put all the flags where the sun dont penetrate, and the mods are welcome to move this discussion too.
Just keep calm....the search function is not exactly fool proof....
If you need the flags that badly i hope they transfer the freakin things., i found some info i thought may interest a few(not even many)people who may be intrugued with the idea of even yet one more particle which has to be thrown into the equation, and may produce the theory that cracks the cosmic egg.....This happens here all the time.I too have posted threads that superceeded others and had mine dumped....
Who the (snip) cares? Oh You?
Its all about the knowledge getting spread around.....all about the truth.No disrespect intended take a chill pill......
Mods please close this thread......

www.abovetopsecret.com...

reply to post by stirling


Sorry. Second time in a week this has happened to me.

I don't usually give 2 sheets about flags. It's only when I see duplicates getting a gazillion flags and my earlier thread got 2 It does bother me then.

For the record though, I searched 'Fermilab' and the first results were this thread and mine. Search function does work with the easiest key words.

Anyway, I am over it now. My above post was just my initial reaction when I saw this thread.

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


I see most of the posts here are made by experienced ATS-ers. I'm glad your posted topic is still alive, being a new member with an interest in theoretical physics. I never caught your initial post, but I'm glad we're talking about it!

Originally posted by sliceNodice
I told you...

"Physicists working with a Fermilab neutrino experiment may have found a new elementary particle whose behavior breaks the known laws of physics".

I bet the team at the LHC is sweating right now. Their whole concept of safety has just been completely shattered. As now all their calculations of what would happen at 14 TeV could be and are likely to be inaccurate, as they do not account for 1) this new particle and 2) the laws of physics are incomplete at best, and entirely wrong at worst.

Indeed, they would be sweating with excitement. Though they would probably wager money on "Standard Model plus small modifications" being correct, in their heart of hearts, most physicists at LHC want the Standard Model to be wrong.

Yes, they want to find the Higgs. But it would be more interesting if they found (a) no Higgs. Or (b) two Higgs.

Originally posted by FalselyFlagged
And then watch how all the involved scientists at Fermi-labs lose their grants and get blacklisted in the industry for going against the grain. The science police can't put up with these terrorist acts on their beloved, impeccable theories..

Right, those scientists so blacklisted that they get a publication in Physical Review Letters instead of some blog.

The same theories which can't even explain why an electron doesn't crash into the nucleus...

edit on 17-11-2010 by FalselyFlagged because: (no reason given)

Aristotle is NOT Belgian!

reply to post by FalselyFlagged


How does wanting knowledge make you a nerd?

On topic..

This is a fantastic discovery, and a blow to those who were protesting regarding FERMILAB.

how ironic that a thread with so much potential is relegated to the fringes of this site while moronic threads like no china we do not apologize have countless stars and flags. i wouldnt care if this was MSN or facebook or myspace i expect that level simplistic discussion from there but this thread is why i come here and its just sad to see such a mighty giant fall.

the irony that this website started off as a F#*K you to the establishment and them becomes the very thing it despises. im sure there is a lesson in that some where for me. regardless does anybody have any news on any further developments in relation to this topic?

Originally posted by sliceNodice

I bet the team at the LHC is sweating right now. Their whole concept of safety has just been completely shattered. As now all their calculations of what would happen at 14 TeV could be and are likely to be inaccurate, as they do not account for 1) this new particle and 2) the laws of physics are incomplete at best, and entirely wrong at worst.

This is not at all how quantum field theory works. Maybe you'd like to point out where their calculations are in error in light of this theoretical new particle? Here's a link to their work: arxiv.org...

There are cosmic ray collisions in our upper atmosphere equal to about 1 LHC every year. If this was going to destroy the earth it would have happened a long time ago.