Freemason Charlie Rangel convicted of fraud

reply to post by Your_Number_One_Fan


In fact, as I understand it, Masons are required to believe in a higher power, in order to join. And if you want to know the "secrets", join!

Originally posted by Your_Number_One_Fan
Why are there levels to pass through in freemasonry?

Could you pass a Calculus III exam if you've never even taken an Algebra course? The teaching, like all knowledge, builds on itself.

Are the windowless buildings a tribute or tradition to an ancient temple or something?

I've never understood people who go on and on about the "windowless buildings". Movie theaters don't have windows either, but I don't hear people complaining about them!

How come people whom don't believe in god or a higher power are not allowed in?

Because the teachings are based on a belief in a higher power. If you don't have such a belief, you probably won't get much out of the lessons. I'll put it to you this way: if you were an atheist, how long would you be able to attend a Catholic church every Sunday before you either got bored out of your mind, or fed up with the nonsense and never came back?

I'm inclined to think only because it would give me great hope that perhaps such an ancient society may hold truths of humans origins within selective circles inside masonry. I don't know it's just very intriguing is all of what wealth of knowledge may lay hidden behind doors only for those with the right secrets.

They're not that kind of secret. What we have are lessons & parables, not concrete facts that have been kept from public knowledge. Read my sig...

Originally posted by Your_Number_One_Fan
reply to post by network dude

 

Why are there levels to pass through in freemasonry?

It's like any system where you have to prove yourself in order to advance. Like a test but not exactly. You have to learn what we call a chatychism which is an account of what you did during the degree. It's a tradition that has been in place since the beginning.

Are the windowless buildings a tribute or tradition to an ancient temple or something?

The lodge room has no windows for the obvious reasons of not having anyone peering in to see what happens. Not that what happens is all that secret, but it has meaning that is best experienced in the way it was meant to be, which is blind. The initiate doesn't know what is going to happen so he trusts and learns.(that is the reason for the secrecy)

How come people whom don't believe in god or a higher power are not allowed in?( Or is that false)

nope, that is true. Our teachings come directly form the bible and while it's not a religion, it is religious in nature. If you didn't believe in a higher power, your obligations would be meaningless much like swearing to God in a court room but not believing in God. Your word has to have meaning.

I'm inclined to think only because it would give me great hope that perhaps such an ancient society may hold truths of humans origins within selective circles inside masonry. I don't know it's just very intriguing is all of what wealth of knowledge may lay hidden behind doors only for those with the right secrets.

Im all about open source. Knowledge is power. Withheld knowledge is power over people.

Just looking into all avenues as I would the Jesuits or such. Quest for knowledge is all no " Mason" bashings or " Cheap shots" .

Thanks for bringing the harmony back.

thanks for asking! The knowledge you gain from masonry is definitely life changing, but it's not anything like the secrets to stargates, or how to become rich beyond your wildest dreams. Its more like the keys to a happy life. You still have to open the door and venture inside to find the true meaning, but masonry gives you the tools to find whatever you are searching for. I don't mean for that to sound as cryptic as it sounds, but in a nutshell, thats what it is. You can find all kinds of truths and revelations about yourself, but you have to look for them. If you don't look, you will be a mason, but no further than you were before you started. It is the best thing I could have done to make myself feel closer to God and closer to my fellow man than anything I had done up that point.
I hope that answers those questions for you.

reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross


Yea thats why I asked why can't people who don't believe in a higher power join.

reply to post by network dude


Thanks man very insightful and I appreciate your time to answer my questions. That congressman won't stain your guys rep more so the already tainted Gov.

reply to post by Your_Number_One_Fan


I suppose you could say you believe in the Flying Spaghetti Monster and join

reply to post by InvisibleAlbatross


Lol I suppose so now eh. Good point.

reply to post by Your_Number_One_Fan


I actually misread that question, thus my first answer about having to believe in a higher power. I read it backward.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


I like Charlie Rangel, or better I have nothing against him but he handled himself very poorly and unwisely in his hearing. So many regular people find themselves in positions where they are innocent - yet they must find a way to afford or pay for an attorney to defend them selves in our judicial system.
He cannot make himself appear to be "a victim" in this case. He could have defended himself even if there was no funds for an attorney or an attorney to represent him. If he was indeed a Freemason I find it hard to believe another Freemason who is an attorney would not defend him. Thought they are supposed to support each other.

Be that as it may...Now Charlie Rangel understands what ordinary "innocent" people are faced with when they are accused of a crime they may not have committed.
He should have gone with a public defender instead of whining and causing a scene and walking out.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
If he was indeed a Freemason I find it hard to believe another Freemason who is an attorney would not defend him. Thought they are supposed to support each other.

I suppose someone could defend him pro bono but he has enough resources to pay for his own defense. There is no edict to support a fellow Mason who has broken the law as evidence by this thread.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus

as evidence by this thread.

Or more accurately... as evidenced by his lack of counsel.

If the man is guilty, he should be punished and expelled from his Lodge pure and simple. Mason or not, a man should not be above the law. Im fact, one of our conditions for application are that you are a law abiding person. Some people go bad, and they should pay.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher


I totally agree however in the case of Charlie Rangel I heard someone on the news who was on "the" (or a) Senate financial ethics committee say that his was a case of "sloppy book-keeping" and clearly not a deliberate attempt to defraud the public or acquire any ill gotten gain.
Indeed all the charges are along the nature of ignorance and not deliberate misdeeds, using official letterhead, supporting a public building with his name on it, etc.
Would folks rather our elected officials did not support our community projects? I am not giving him a pass, but asking people to remember - if you want parks roads and museums - (regardless of whose name is on them) politicians get these with earmarks.
He thought he was going to be exonerated because I think he knew what he did was not that serious, however it was blown out of proportion. Just the questions surrounding his actions and the pressure on the ethics committee to be even handed and then him walking out without representation and saying the system was rigged against him...it was too much.

He cannot give the appearance of being above the law, and that is what he did.

As far as I can tell, he did nothing really dastardly or that made him a chunk of money.
Still people are treating him like he was akin to Bernie Madoff.

It proves that being a Freemason does not give you any secret status higher than any other person in government. If you break the law, you pay the consequences just like anyone else. And there is no secret handshake that is going to absolve you of your misdeeds.

reply to post by rusethorcain

If he was indeed a Freemason I find it hard to believe another Freemason who is an attorney would not defend him. Thought they are supposed to support each other.

I think it was his choice to defend himself, not a lack of resources. Also, a brother Freemason would surely step in to assist him if they believed he was falsely accused. The problem here is that he was guilty. No decent Freemason would want to lie and cheat to get him off like so many other attorneys are willing to do.

As for someone Else's question about having to believe in a higher power. If you do not believe in a higher power, then your word/oath/obligation is not as powerful and binding. Freemasons believe it speaks to one's character. Not to say all Atheists are bad people, but they just don't fit in with the teachings of Masonry. Somebody mentioned a flying spaghetti monster, I don't know if that would get you past the investigation committee, but it's possible. We don't care what you call your God, just so long as you have one and only one ever-living God that helps you stick to your moral code.

reply to post by Your_Number_One_Fan


I think the windowless thing varies by Lodge.
For example, the Lodge here in town certainly has windows.

reply to post by RuneSpider


Cool thanks for the input. I like the standard you guys hold yourselves to and hopefully this guy is stripped of his membership.

Also is their like in depth courses for sacred geometry in mason lodges or such? That stuff blows my mind.

reply to post by Your_Number_One_Fan


lucky for me, there was no geometry test. I flunked it with flying colors back in the day. There is masonic education on a very wide variety of subjects. You just have to ask the right people. I am sure you could find all that information outside of masonry, as we would be going to a library to get that information. If you ever find yourself in Washington DC, the House of Temple has a great masonic library. You have to read the material there, but the amount of books and literature is astounding. I would have a shopping list before you go. It was easy to get overwhelmed by all the choices. Great tour though. That's where all the "Higher Up's" hang out. It was the place in Dan Browns' book The Lost Symbol where the climax occurred.

reply to post by AugustusMasonicus


Uhg, can't believe that dirt bags a Mason..

Personally, I don't trust any Mason that is a politician .. there is something inherently vile about being a politician that I could never look past.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
...I heard someone on the news who was on "the" (or a) Senate financial ethics committee say that his was a case of "sloppy book-keeping" and clearly not a deliberate attempt to defraud the public or acquire any ill gotten gain.

Being that I am from the New York City area this is not the first time any of us have 'heard' that the Congressman was involved in 'sloppy book-keeping' these allegations have been around for some time.

Indeed all the charges are along the nature of ignorance and not deliberate misdeeds, using official letterhead, supporting a public building with his name on it, etc.

To me, tax evasion is not ignorance.

As far as I can tell, he did nothing really dastardly or that made him a chunk of money.

He certainly did, he knowingly and willifully hid the proceeds on several different ventures that netted him a decent sum of money. The details are in this Wall Street Journal article.