Durham council tells police to accept Mexican ID

Originally posted by PayMeh
en.wikipedia.org...

That's for SUSPECTS. It's not illegal to be out without an ID.

The whole thing I have a problem with is that it makes it easy for illegals to produce some ID.

But the ID doesn't prove anything, except who they are. It doesn't mean they're legal or anything.

They don't have to carry around their passport/visa because of this ruling, nor do they have to go through the trouble and expense of trying to obtain fake IDs.

If they're illegal, the don't HAVE passports or visas.

If their foreign IDs were not valid, they'd have to do one of the two or risk being detained and found out.

They have to risk being "found out" anyway because these consulate IDs do not, any ANY way mean that they're legal. Respectfully, I question your logic on your thinking here.

Illegal?
Why are we calling them illegal immigrants when we let them legally stay? Or, are we letting them "illegally" stay?
If we accept an i.d. from an person here illegally, and we do not deport them, then apparently it is not a crime to be here illegally. Or, they are committing a crime and we are not enforcing the law?
What other crimes should we just look the other way? Who is deciding the law here? The law as written means what?
Nothing.

reply to post by adjensen


Passport means they actually checked into the country through legal channels. It means they have stated their purpose, have a finite length of time to procure citizenship, and registers them as being in the country.

Originally posted by PayMeh
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Being here illegally IS a crime...... or should we just let that one slide?

edit on 16-11-2010 by PayMeh because: (no reason given)

Who said these people with these IDs are illegal?

That is you projecting your own paranoia and fear into the situation.


Do you understand that Mexican citizens can be in the United State legally? Do you understand that they can live here legally without being a US citizen?

Originally posted by harrytuttle
This Driver's license business is just to make it that much more difficult to track down people here illegally

What '"drivers license business"? These AREN'T drivers licenses...

Originally posted by Benevolent Heretic
That's for SUSPECTS. It's not illegal to be out without an ID.

Yes, but you can be detained at any time until your identity is proven. If you're talking to the police, then you're already a majority of the time a suspect even if you're in a vehicle as a passenger. It's officers discretion. Note I did not say you could be arrested as there is a difference between being arrested and detained. I assure you 100% that if you are approached by an officer and you're over the age of 18 they can and more often than not will detain you.

If they're illegal, the don't HAVE passports or visas.

Exactly my point. If the foreign ID wasn't accepted, they'd have to have passports/visas to verify their identity. They would be detained, then hopefully/supposedly ICE gets involved. Allowing this lets street cops get away without detaining them and involving ICE at all.

They have to risk being "found out" anyway because these consulate IDs do not, any ANY way mean that they're legal. Respectfully, I question your logic on your thinking here.

Again, just above is what I'm getting at. Let me ask you this. What purpose does this serve ultimately? You state yourself that consulate IDs do not make them legal. So then you'd have to ask for passport/papers. If they don't have the ID, they still supposedly have to provide papers showing their status once detained. Can you give me one good reason as to why this ID matters. Can they use it for beer? I doubt it. Sure can't use it to drive. They're here illegally, so upon discovery they legally have to be reported to ICE.

Originally posted by PayMeh
reply to post by adjensen

 

Passport means they actually checked into the country through legal channels. It means they have stated their purpose, have a finite length of time to procure citizenship, and registers them as being in the country.

And where in the article does it say that these people don't have passports? When I travel to Canada, I have a passport to get across the border, but I don't haul it around with me every place I go, and I expect that if I get into trouble, my US issued ID will be sufficient to identify me, at least for minor sorts of issues.

It doesn't say it's replacing passports, it's just for purposes of ID. I'm sure that if someone was believed to be illegally in the country, they'd be asked to produce their passport and if they couldn't, they'd be arrested.

i live in nc and yes its very bad here. the young people fresh out of high school who are caucasian or african american have absolutly no job prospects except working at local fast food or in retail for minimum wage why. because aLL THE LOCAL FACTORIES ARE ONLY HIRING MEXICANS AND BURMESE REFUGES. i know this as a fact because i work in one of these factories and they are constantly hiring people of these minorities while at same time they keep writing crazy new rules to get rid of workers like me who have worked for the company for ten years. mind you the new rules don't effect mexicans or karin people because they are brought in as subcontractors.
when african american or caucasian youth apply for these jobs they are told they arent hiring which is a baldface lie.

reply to post by OutKast Searcher


Oh quit living under a rock and playing devil's advocate. How many Mexican nationals do you know who are here on vacation or student visas?

Temporary visas deny you the ability to seek gainful employment. This is just a way to shield illegals from discovery. They provide this ID and every street cop looks at it and asks no further questions. In the old system, the officers would detain them and in trying to figure out their identity the ICE department would be involved and take over jurisdiction. This just allows ICE to be cut out of the loop. Hear no illegal, see no illegal.

Originally posted by PayMeh
Can you give me one good reason as to why this ID matters

Because it's a big, fat pain in the can to have to carry your passport everywhere, and an even bigger one if you lose it or have it stolen.

reply to post by adjensen


If you were asked to produce your passport in Canada and you left it in the hotel room, you'd be in trouble. My reasoning is in my previous post right before this one. I wouldn't expect Canadians to take my word for it that I was there legally based on a US issued ID.

Originally posted by adjensen
Because it's a big, fat pain in the can to have to carry your passport everywhere, and an even bigger one if you lose it or have it stolen.

Do you really think that's a huge problem here? Or is it just a PC stance you take? A passport is no bigger than a wallet, and I can't think of one sane American who would want to steal a Mexican passport. If you lost it, you would make it your first priority to fix the situation, or at least one would hope so.

Originally posted by PayMeh
reply to post by adjensen

 

If you were asked to produce your passport in Canada and you left it in the hotel room, you'd be in trouble. My reasoning is in my previous post right before this one. I wouldn't expect Canadians to take my word for it that I was there legally based on a US issued ID.

I can tell that you've never been in Canada (well, not Manitoba anyway :-)

No, if I am in Winnipeg and need an ID, my North Dakota driver's license suffices, and if circumstances required that I produce my passport, the RCMP would probably offer me a ride back to the hotel to get it.

Do you really think that's a huge problem here? Or is it just a PC stance you take? A passport is no bigger than a wallet, and I can't think of one sane American who would want to steal a Mexican passport. If you lost it, you would make it your first priority to fix the situation, or at least one would hope so.

A huge problem? No, but it's a legitimate one. It doesn't fit IN your wallet, so you need to cart it around separately, reasonably easy for women, who can put it in their purse, less so for men, who have less options, and none that keep it particularly safe.

Replacing a lost passport is a serious matter, it's not just a matter of nipping by the Embassy or Consulate (where's the nearest one to Durham? How are they going to get there if the only acceptable form of identification to get on a plane or train is missing?) and asking for one.

You're making a tempest in a teapot -- this thing protects no illegal aliens, and is a reasonable service for people who are here legally, and is nothing less than you'd expect the Mexican government to provide to you, as an American, under similar conditions.

Originally posted by OutKast Searcher

Originally posted by PayMeh
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

Being here illegally IS a crime...... or should we just let that one slide?

edit on 16-11-2010 by PayMeh because: (no reason given)

Who said these people with these IDs are illegal?

That is you projecting your own paranoia and fear into the situation.


Do you understand that Mexican citizens can be in the United State legally? Do you understand that they can live here legally without being a US citizen?

That changed a few years ago. Now if I, a US citizen want to travel to Mexico or even Canada, I NEED a passport in order to do it...the same goes for Mexican and Canadian nationals visiting the US.

Originally posted by rangersdad
That changed a few years ago. Now if I, a US citizen want to travel to Mexico or even Canada, I NEED a passport in order to do it...the same goes for Mexican and Canadian nationals visiting the US.

That's more a matter of needing a passport to get back into the United States than anything else. The level of disinterest on the part of Canadian customs agents while crossing the border suggests that they're asking you for your passport to try and save those who've forgotten theirs the hassle of getting back. I went to Honduras and Mexico last year and no one cared whether I had a passport, much less asked to see it, until I got back the States, of course.

reply to post by PayMeh


I suggest you actually do some actual research. I know plenty of american mexican citizens, hell for that matter, plenty of white americans and black americans that work here, and live in Tijuana, Mx. I don't know what kind of a big deal you are trying to make. From what the article states, they only say that a Mx ID can be used for Identification purposes, nothing more, nothing less. As you were asked before, what makes you think that every Mexican here is illegal? Obviously you are a very prejudiced person.

I DO AGREE that we need to strengthen our borders. I live in a bordertown. Of course, it's not as "ghetto" as you sensationalize. The true ghetto areas around these parts are actually in the area where heavy gang activity is centralized. We have bloods, crips, lots of Samoan gangs, Asian gangs, white-boy gangs, and of course Mexican gangs. But, to be honest, I know a couple of illegals in these parts. They actually keep their home sparkly clean. So much for your stereotype and fear mongering.

Sure, we need to stop the influx of illegals. But, what you are insinuating in this thread, is your own fear. Welcome to the real world.

reply to post by divinetragedy79



If they live in Tijuana and work here, they have dual citizenship. If they just have a passport/visa, then they are not legally supposed to work in the states. There is a rare chance that they do have a work visa, but to get one of those, you have to already be employed by a company in the states. What do they need a consulate ID for?

It's not fear mongering that I am promoting here. Anyone from any country has to have proper documentation. When coming here legally, they go through the process where their reason for being here is established and their passport is documented. A passport is an ID. If I go to another country, I'd be sure to carry it on me at all times and when asked for ID, that is what I would and should provide. If I can't provide that, then I fully expect to be detained until my status can be determined.

Not one person has given me a substantial reason for this ID to be used. The only thing I can see happening from this, is it being used to keep ICE from getting involved as it is a separate entity than that of state law enforcement. Also, look at this picture of the ID. keepstuff.homestead.com... . Tell me that's hard for anyone to forge.

The Q and A section underneath is what I'm getting at here. It's all about using these IDs to ticket illegals instead of getting ICE involved and the state/city not getting any money. A lot won't pay, but some will and as we all know, some money is better than none.

Again, I don't know what it takes to get a Mexican Consulate pass, besides money.

But I know this: we need to secure the border against illegals. Period.

And those who are already here need protection against exploitation, that I have personally witnessed.

The only way to do that is make them citizens AFTER the border is locked down, or incur the added expense of sending them back to Mexico, or whatever central american nation they say they are from.

But Big Orange and other corporations will fight tooth and nail to keep this from happening.