Obama’s Claiming More Power Over Americans Than King George III, Says Virginia Attorney General

*thats the title of the article.

Truth or exaggeration?

CNSNews.com) - Virginia Atty. Gen. Ken Cuccinelli, who has filed a federal lawsuit seeking to overturn the health-care law signed by President Barack Obama last March, says Obama and the Congress that enacted that law--which mandates that individuals must buy government-approved health insurance plans--are seeking a power over the lives of Americans that even King George III did not claim to possess.

“We now have a Congress and a president who believe they can order you to buy a product when King George III and the Parliament of Great Britain, whom we rebelled against, acknowledged that they could not,” Cuccinelli said in a video interview with CNSNews.com.

Info on King George III

True, George didn't force people to buy a product. Instead, he just stole from people by raising taxes so high that they were virtual slaves to the state. Obama's people say it's constitutional to force people to buy a product - something about the Commerce clause. Is forcing people to buy something (a rather expensive something!) different from King George III simply stealing it by calling it 'taxes'??

Could being forced to buy expensive health care insurance really be viewed as a new tax?
Kinda works the same way. Pay the 'tax' (have your money stolen from you) and get a
government (mis)run product in return. Be put in jail if you fail to pay your 'tax'. Same/same.

I don't know if Obama is 'claiming more power'over Americans than King George III ..
but it could easily look similar.

Probably...if we are going into nonsense comparisons.

Bush successfully claimed more power than Gengis Khan...we got over it..

I have trouble crying for the poor little rich insurance companys not being able to soak and deny..call me a socialist I guess...Go King!

-sighs-

Dunno.. probably. Course the differance here is plausible deniability. If the health insurance industry screws up, the government (won't be Obama, will be someone else) can blame them as the source of the problem and enact new measures to "help" everyone. If it was true government run insurance, the blame would fall on the government, rather than the MNCs.

reply to post by FlyersFan


We can lose the mandate....it was a concession to the insurance industry.

Most constitutional scholars seem to feel it is on solid ground within the commerce clause, but it does suck.

The mandate, originally demanded by the GOP...before they were against it, assures the insurance industry they can still make gobs of money even if they have to insure everyone.

But if we get rid of the mandate...they Won't insure everyone and we need the public option...so kids with cancer can still get treatment...so folks in the greatest nation on earth don't simply suffer and die through no fault of thier own.

The Mandate is ugly...but not as ugly as cancer without healthcare coverage, bankrupt families watching a loved one slowly die.

Give me the Public Option any day. The Insurance industry will not accept being required to cover everyone unless they can collect money from everyone (Mandate) and they threw a tantrum about the public option and the GOP carried thier water.

So what will it be? Mandate or Public Option...because what we have been doing doesn't work.

My wife lost her job and was denied insurance for maybe 5 years now...We are willing to pay, they won't cover her. She has had health issues and I have paid over 100k out of pocket over that time..I am in a world of debt, a less successful family would be homeless by now.

Flyers..I know you have health issues...what would your bills be like if you didn't have coverage for the past five years? Appointments? Tests? Meds?

Public Option or Mandate...I'll leave it up to the GOP. But if there answer is neither...go bankrupt and die...well, that is not acceptable.

King George?...Simpler times...he just demanded money and if you didn't pay he jailed or executed you.

Regan had more power than Augustus Caesar.

tru-fax

There are parts of Obamacare that I really like. And parts that stink. The fact that it's unsustainable and that massive numbers of waivers are being handed out is very troubling.

Making health care insurance available for everyone WHO WANTS IT is important and I support it. But there are lots of people out there who don't want to pay into that system. They are young and healthy and want to spend their money elsewhere. I think it's foolish. Serious health issues can come at ya' out of nowhere and at any age ... I'm living proof of it. I know that when people who don't want to buy into the system suddenly need health care, we the tax payer will end up supporting their health isuses anyways. Some folks are going to play the numbers game and either way - sick or not - they come out ahead by refusing to sign up and pay into the system. (and they know it).

Both Obamacare and King George force the peasant (that's us ) to have their money taken away. Both say .. give us the $$$ or go to jail. Both say that the money will do the peasant some good. In both cases, you have no choice. In both cases the government will decide what to do with the money - not you. And as we can see with the waivers and unsustainability of obamacare - it will be mismanaged - just like most things in government. King George mismanaged as well.

I think the author used the King George III comparison because, in American History, King George was the bad guy. The power crazed guy that mistreated Americans .. that kind of thing. I don't think it's claiming 'more' power, but instead is claiming the same power. Is it a bad thing? Dunno. But the pictures painted by the words that the Virginia Attorney General used are certainly negative.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Making health care insurance available for everyone WHO WANTS IT is important and I support it.

Forgive me for excerpting this one sentence...but it is a familiar line.

It is one thing to "support it"...but what is your plan for making it happen?

If you have better idea than what Pres. Obama has tried, what is it?

I would include the GOP along with pres. Obama...but thier answer to the question of how can we make this work has been "They want to Kill your Grandma!!!!!"

Just sayin..It is easy to see the issue and criticize potential solutions, but thus far I have only seen one side that has actually offered solutions.

I am all about a better way, but like I said, all the GOP has offered is ...go broke and die already.

Originally posted by maybereal11
It is one thing to "support it"...but what is your plan for making it happen?
If you have better idea than what Pres. Obama has tried, what is it?

No one has a sustainable plan. When one comes up .. I'll support that plan.
At this point I support the idea of it happening .. in some way .. sometime. (the sooner the better)

But remember .. doing nothing is better than doing something that will make things worse.
Obamacare is unsustainable and breaks the healthcare system that 85% of the country likes.
That's the last figure I saw. A lot of people actually don't want to pay into a health insurance.
Best thing .. leave that 85% alone and come up with something separate for the other %15.

What that is? Dunno. If I knew, then I'd be running for office. (if I had the energy .. and the eyesight .. and no neuropathy in my legs and tongue and intestines ... and a voice box that wasn't dried up ... and no kidney stones .. and etc)

Throwing junk at a problem situation isn't a solution. It's just throwing junk.
Best not to do something that is obviously not going to work.
It just wastes money and makes things worse.

Anyways .. back to the article .. I don't see it as 'more power'. Just 'the same' power.
It's the same power Bush43 had. Same power Clinton had. Same power Bush41 had.
Same power the Kings of ______ (pick a country) had. It's just power.

Originally posted by maybereal11
Flyers..I know you have health issues...what would your bills be like if you didn't have coverage for the past five years? Appointments? Tests? Meds?

Off topic response but .... In a perfect world we would all have centers like in the movie Soylent Green that we could go to when we wanted. Places to go when we felt our time had come to an end. Places to go so we could leave here in dignity and without pain. Instead of coverage and tests and meds (which will never end now until the day I finally leave this body), i'd opt for the Soylent Green way out.

IMHO - legalize physician assisted suicide

Back on topic .. my bills would have gone unpaid by me and instead would have been sucked up by the hospitals and the tax payers. That's how it works already for those who don't have insurance. They can't be refused care. (I could tell you stories that would turn your hair grey about the supposedly 'great' care we have in this country. :shk: So many freak'n yahoooo doctors who don't know what they are doing).

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by maybereal11
It is one thing to "support it"...but what is your plan for making it happen?
If you have better idea than what Pres. Obama has tried, what is it?

But remember .. doing nothing is better than doing something that will make things worse.

Agree.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Obamacare is unsustainable and breaks the healthcare system that 85% of the country likes.

Disagree.

I'll concede that the HCR bill is a long way off from ideal, but it is sustainable, it is a significant improvement when compared to even the most conservative projected healthcare costs (absent a bill) by economists and researchers.

I have seen GOP rhetoric that says otherwise, but in comparison to econonmists, researchers and statiticians...all the GOP has offered is opportunistic, idealogical rhetoric to support the claim...and some fuzzy, cherry picked numbers.

It can sure use improvement...but I am not holding my breath with the GOP running congress.

Originally posted by FlyersFan

Originally posted by maybereal11
Flyers..I know you have health issues...what would your bills be like if you didn't have coverage for the past five years? Appointments? Tests? Meds?

Off topic response but .... In a perfect world we would all have centers like in the movie Soylent Green that we could go to when we wanted. Places to go when we felt our time had come to an end. Places to go so we could leave here in dignity and without pain. Instead of coverage and tests and meds (which will never end now until the day I finally leave this body), i'd opt for the Soylent Green way out.

IMHO - legalize physician assisted suicide

Off topic...You are talking about the (recommended - not mandated) end of life counseling and planning that the Obama administration suggested. Where they would sponsor a conversation (if you wanted it) with your family and doctors, outlining when enough is enough, so folks wouldn't spend there last few weeks or months in a hospital bed being poked and prodded every two hours before they die. They could spend it at home and make an exit more in keeping with how nature intended it.

The GOP referred to this as "Death Panels".

Personally...When I run out of options, I'd like to be dropped off in the woods of the great north with a rifle and a lighter...go out kicking beneath a tree somewhere surrounded by creation. I am an odd duck that way.

Originally posted by FlyersFan
Back on topic .. my bills would have gone unpaid by me and instead would have been sucked up by the hospitals and the tax payers.

Yep. But in the meanwhile your family would have gone bankrupt before the collectors would have relented, legal threats, decimated credit, etc. etc. no home ownershipo in your future, credit checks on job interviews? fail. On and on it goes.

(I could tell you stories that would turn your hair grey about the supposedly 'great' care we have in this country. :shk: So many freak'n yahoooo doctors who don't know what they are doing).

A couple of years ago I had a herniated disk in my kneck pressing on my spinal cord.
It took doctors 8 months to diagnose it.
Before that I was diagnosed with...
Depression...wanted me to take anti-depresents
Dental infection..
Dry Eye Syndrome...they put plugs in my eye drainage ducks.
A vision disorder...many optomotrists..new glasses prescriptions
A Sinus Cyst/infection...3 ENT Appointments
Multiple Schlerosis...that was a fun prognosis to bat around.
A handful of other syndromes
And my favorite...my GP told me to try meditation..

All the time a herniated disk was squeezing my spinal cord.

Not an uncommon thing...just a lot of dumb doctors.

FYI Flyers...I know what Nueropathy is from personal experience. I still have some, but it is managable. I am sorry you have to go through it.

Given your syndrome is dehydration related, I assume you have an othopedic doctor keeping an eye on your spinal disks as they depend heavily on hydration and degineration would contribute to nueropathy as the nerves are compressed in the foraminal canals. Surgery...Minimally invasive or fusion are an option if any of your spinal disks look to be compressing nerves. I have had both types of surgery.

Sorry for the rant...but incompetence in medicine is a hot button of mine for obvious reasons.

Hey, I'm from Virginia. Cuccinelli is more than a bit crazy.

Originally posted by SaturnFX
Probably...if we are going into nonsense comparisons.

Bush successfully claimed more power than Gengis Khan...we got over it..

I have trouble crying for the poor little rich insurance companys not being able to soak and deny..call me a socialist I guess...Go King!

-sighs-

Well, let's just see how ludicrous it really is:

The following are quotes from the Declaration of Independence highlighted in bold:

1 He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

Score one for Obama and Bush

2. He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

NorthComm-Bush and Obama again

3 He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:

Score one for Obama here. His desire to have the United States beholden to international law outside of long held traditions.

4 For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

Obama 1

5. For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

Bush started this one, but Obama is taking it even further.

6. For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences

Extraordinary rendition, Bush and Obama, and American citizens are among those
who are victims of this policy

7. He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of Lands.

Definitely score one for Obama, and Bush, and Clinton, and Reagan...I think you get the idea.


Of all the powers King George claimed or exercised over the people, forcing them to buy a certain product was not part of it. I believe there are good things in this HC law. but 2000 pages isn't necessary to reform the system.

I've said this before and I will say it again, you don't need 2000 pages to combat fraud and make people's lives better, you need it to HIDE fraud that will undoubtedly make things worse.