Things you are NOT allowed to invent.

I agree with what you say, but that is the whole purpose of patents. They are designed to protect intellectual property. The government use them the same way as civilians do. People dont invent things for free. They must somehow make a return on their investment to make the effort worthwhile. You have to look at the government like any other business. It needs money to run and it needs to make a profit to advance. When a company in the civilian sector invents a new product, their patent will give them exclusive rights to supply for a certain period of time. They are in effect witholding the technology from the population to exploit their temporary monopoly. Its the same with the government. They may pump billions of dollars into a project and when its finished they dont want somebody taking their data and making money at their expense. I am not saying that this is right, but it is the only way that research can advance without a bottomless money pit. Obviously it would be better to share technology, but new technology is a powerful thing. Imagine if the government invented an alternate motor that ran on water and imagine the economic crash that would follow. The petroleum industry would die, middle eastern states would go bankrupt, companies in the auto industry would drop like flies, there would be unemployment in the hundreds of thousands. A change in technology can be a brutal slap in the face to the economy and sometimes I wonder if it is better that technology is drip fed to society in order to prevent collapses such as those mentioned above.

Well I believe that mankind sometimes has to step over the money and power issue. Because thats what it is all about. People die because of "protection of investments"

Here is an informative read about patents:

patent info

The U.S. government has developed and shelved so much technology over the decades, unbeknownst to the public, that it never ceases to amaze me. I mean, I was an odd kid back in the 1970s, and I subscribed to the fringe technology magazines... such as Science News, which reported on the Pentagon's various tech projects.

Therein I learned of chemically-powered burning lasers that were combat-ready and mounted on the new generation tanks. That was in 1975. These were not targeting lasers, oh, no.... These were offensive weapons that could, reportedly, punch a hole in a titanium target at a distance of 10 miles.

I was astounded to read about breathable liquids back then, also, with actual photos of terrestrial test subjects submerged and breathing fluids in and out and very much alive.

Military science was quite advanced back in the 70s and 80s... That's not so long ago, it turns out.

But the government DROPPED these technologies from their menu for a number of mundane reasons... Cost overrun, too troublesome to transport, not cost efficient, blah, blah, blah.

They do, indeed, keep those technologies on the shelf and away from the public, and they do occasionally bring them out, dust them off, and incorporate them into new technologies.

The heavy burning laser, for example, has resurfaced recently, although it is now airborne and, with computer-assist, is used for zapping intercontinental ballistic missiles.

We got Star Wars, baby. But we had Star Wars before the movie ever came out, back in the 70s.

I'm still amazed at the old high-tech stuff that our gubbmint keeps parked in warehouses out in the desert. Maybe we'll use it, maybe we won't. Hm

— Zesko Whirligan

reply to post by EarthOccupant


It does seem strange I have to admit. It seems to me they have banned anything that would make a great deal of money.

reply to post by jexmo


Indeed, and/or the potential of making BIG money.

Simply because making BIG money is having BIG influence. And the people who already have that don't like new players. So a lot of money, resources and effort is put in keeping that "status quo"

Any world changing invention has very powerful enemies, from states to large companies.

Thats why great inventions do not get public-ally known.

A lot of times Government and companies are in it together.

Energy industries is a great example: Companies get big bugs from the overpriced products and Governments are taxing every drop of energy.. They would not like you to run your car or house from sun energy or raindrops.
Besides that, free or self-created energy would make a person almost independent.. that is the last thing TPTB want to happen.. They want you to fear your health, income, house .. so you do not think and nicely obey their system.

So "one" inventor has to fight against unwilling Governments and Companies who both have excess to unlimited funding..

You do the math.

reply to post by jexmo


As I mentioned on the first page. That list isnt a list of things that are banned. It is a list of things the government wants you to invent.

reply to post by Pryde87


Not so fast.. A shopping list with only ONE costumer!

Its what they want you to invent... agreed.. And then keep for themselves!
Besides the list also states things they already have and do not want to get out anyway.

( And even you have no way of knowing what is already invented and not released, or delayed released and for what reasons)

reply to post by EarthOccupant


It only has one customer because it is the governments shopping list. Its is what they want to purchase from defence companies. They are the only customer of those things, because it is their wish list of technology. When you go to the store to buy groceries you dont list all the things your neighbours wants too. Its your list for things you want. You are the only customer of importance on your shopping list.

They want defence companies to make them offers based on what is in that list. If they say they are not interested in a certain technology, it means just that. They dont want to buy it at the moment. It saves them recieving lots of offers from companies wanting to sell them it. I think we are reading too deep into quite a mundane document.

Originally posted by Pryde87
I have just took time to read this and Im sorry to say its a load of rubbish. The document has been misunderstood.
I work in the defence industry and see this kind of thing all the time. It is not a list of things that you are not allowed to invent. It is a list of things that the government wants you to invent. It is their shopping list. They distribute these lists to defence companies and if we can supply them with a product on that list then we let them know.

The list just states what the government would like and then the defence companies go out and try and fulfil their wishes. The government is not forbidding the invention of those products, they are actively encouraging it.

No, that's a lie. First of all, someone in the Defense Industry would know how to spell their industry correctly. Take notice of where it states: "...list of the categories of inventions that should be made available in accordance with 35 USC 181." Well, what is 35 USC 181? Easy enough:

35 U.S.C. 181 Secrecy of certain inventions and withholding of patent.

Whenever publication or disclosure by the publication of an application or by the grant of a patent on an invention in which the Government has a property interest might, in the opinion of the head of the interested Government agency, be detrimental to the national security, the Commissioner of Patents upon being so notified shall order that the invention be kept secret and shall withhold the publication of an application or the grant of a patent therefor under the conditions set forth hereinafter.
_________________________________________________________

Nuff said on that.

Now how about this!?

Item 3. Methods for controlling climate to effect changes in means of temperature, atmospheric water vapor
content, sea water temperatures, precipitation, etc. Exclude cloud seeding, heaters, wind machines, smudge
pots, etc., for local or small scale effects. (AF) (AMC)

If NIKOLA TESLA ' IS ' ALIVE he would have a lot of fun with this.

Originally posted by Zesko Whirligan
Our Central Scrutinizer government — which is just a puppet of the larger Global Spider God — doesn't want the public to have a LOT of things, particularly those items that tend to transfer Power to the People.

But can we jam in joe's garage?
or will the Central Scrutinizer put a stop to that too?

reply to post by purplemonkeydishwasher


Firstly, I am English. We spell Defence like that. I presume you are American and spell it Defense.
Nice shot at trying to discredit me through my spelling ability though.

With regards to your comment on 35 U.S.C. 181. You dont seem to know what you are talking about. All this states is that if the government deems necessary it can turn the defence companies offer into a "black project". It just states that the government holds the right to keep the acquisition secret. I.e. if a defence company designs the guidance system of a missile. The government would want to keep it secret so that potential enemies cant use the information to defeat our systems. Its not as sinister as you are making it out to be, its just common sense.

reply to post by Pryde87


It also means that if Joe the Plumber invents a water engine, goes to the patent agency he is either :
- Denied
- Payed off
- Or other not nice ways to keep the invention silent.

Simply because the implications of such an invention would be as large as disrupting economies or boosting !! who's to tell...

Somehow i can even understand that, although i do not agree. Why would the collapse of the oil industry be bad? Something else will take its place. The problem is that old money and politics are in bed together and do not want any more players and no interference with there long term strategies.

So where does "defensce interest start ..or even better stop ???

Solar panels above 20% efficiency... clean energy.. waste solutions..
Sure it's somehow defensce... But i think it's the robbing of the people of progress that would make them more evolved, less depended and more free time to grow personally and as a group.

And somehow i think that is not the same agenda as the government has for us the people...

Originally posted by Pryde87
reply to post by purplemonkeydishwasher

 

With regards to your comment on 35 U.S.C. 181. You dont seem to know what you are talking about. All this states is that if the government deems necessary it can turn the defence companies offer into a "black project". It just states that the government holds the right to keep the acquisition secret. I.e. if a defence company designs the guidance system of a missile. The government would want to keep it secret so that potential enemies cant use the information to defeat our systems. Its not as sinister as you are making it out to be, its just common sense.

Yes, the first paragraph discusses e.g. black projects. The later paragraphs say that if the application is not under government contract but appears to threaten national security, then the application will be forwarded to various people who may determine that the information must be kept secret. The secrecy order has to be renewed every year unless the U.S. is at war or in a state of national emergency. It applies to everyone, not just defense contractors.

Some of the items on the list do make sense, e.g. missile guidance systems and explosives, but I'm lost as to how high-efficiency solar cells or computer aided design software could threaten national security.

CAD software is considered a resource,
One person with enough knowledge can design a lot.

And Solar systems can give a person Independence.

Originally posted by EarthOccupant
Hi all,

I came across a post in another forum about the "patent" watch list, made by the US government.
of course there are a lot of stuff witch would be wise to keep out of the public because they are dangerous, there are also a few dubious items on that list.

I think you and the op in the other forum are misinterpreting this. It's not a list of "forbidden technology", it's a guideline to the patent examiner on what sort of patents need to be forwarded to the review committee for further examination.

This comes down every couple of years, with updates as things change.

Of all the patents that hit the screen list and ARE examined further, only a very few will be flagged by the review committee. If you get borked with a 181, you'll get the opportunity (should you want it) to appeal. Personally, I see a 181 as a business opportunity - we've been 181'd a number of times. I had "the year of the 181" back in 2005 trying to get the most 181s for a single inventor but I fell short by an undisclosed number (one guy said two).

At any rate, that document you posted is amusing in what it gives up in terms of classified info, although I guess you'd have to know what projects they were fishing for materials/technologies on to see the patterns.

There are some of those topics that are, of course, still on the list. And on the list, there are some patents that will be auto-181d without further discussion. It pays to know what they want to 181 if you're going for the record. For example, ANY valid patent for a nuclear weapon topology, initiation system, shaped-charge timing system for radial compression etc is 181 from conception by what's known as the "Born Secret" policy, so any nuke patent you file that's not rejected as obvious to one skilled in the art (or that's not already patented - you often can't tell) will get the 181.

There's something that's an ATS sort of trivia - if you are working on Mr Home Thermonuke, you are responsible for document and project security as if it were TS from the first sketch you made. Go peek at "born secret" - it ought to be phrased that way on Google.

Originally posted by Pryde87
I have just took time to read this and Im sorry to say its a load of rubbish. The document has been misunderstood.
I work in the defence industry and see this kind of thing all the time. It is not a list of things that you are not allowed to invent. It is a list of things that the government wants you to invent. It is their shopping list. They distribute these lists to defence companies and if we can supply them with a product on that list then we let them know.

The list just states what the government would like and then the defence companies go out and try and fulfil their wishes. The government is not forbidding the invention of those products, they are actively encouraging it.

so how does someone approach the right people to ensure an invention is relayed to the opreate branch of goverment if there invention is on that list ?
if you invented something and wouldnt patent it for fear of national security concens and personal saftey concerns
how does that help anyone?
if you invented something on that list and the milatary wanted what protections from them would be avaliable?
what i mean is if its national security once they had the idea what would happen to the individual who invented it?
people have disapaired before after inventing things
is there an agency you can contact without going bye bye?

xploder

Originally posted by purplemonkeydishwasher
Nuff said on that.

Well, it might help if you actually understood what you were reading. Maybe having gone through the exercise once or twice would make it more clear what happens.

You can't just pick out a phrase or clause, highlight it, and proceed with your misassumptions. Back up a few sentences in your quote and look for "according to the head of the agency", that's where you missed the bigger picture.

reply to post by EarthOccupant


I am sure plenty of the stuff you can imagine has been invented, and they will make sure no one else gets the patents.

Behind the scenes the techs are probably too advanced for the real world. The real world needs to have a practcal nature to it.

I would not be surprised one bit if they make sure you cannot invent something.

Or the sidenote, if you try and invent something new, they will just steal it from you using nsa techs. Espionage is probably very big in corps and other things and they must steal all kinds of stuff.

reply to post by EarthOccupant


Well, I guess my
HHO reactor and ECM hack is illegal then, not to mention I produce no emissions and have no CAT on my van. Passed the pollution test with flying colors, them tech even commented on how well in tune the engine was! I think we can all see that BIG OIL has their greedy hands all over this law. Personally, I wish everyone would run an HHO generator on their cars/trucks and screw Big Oil good and hard. Think about it, if 100% of the population of the US did this, and all doubled their gas mileage, the oil companies would lose billions every single day that goes by, and we could all smile real big as we drive by the gas station. But, sadly, that will never happen. There are people in this very forum that still claims HHO generators do not work. Human beings are so complacent and lazy, it is no great wonder the governments do as they do and screw over the people.