Next moon mission?

reply to post by mysteryskeptic

The technology to converting moon dust to oxygen

are you joking, i hope? what do you call "dust" & how could you transform it to O2?

Well how did we get all those the rocks to experiment with?

where is the least evidence that rocks were delivered from the Moon?

Originally posted by Zesko Whirligan
The answer is YES, the odd radio traffic would have been monitored long ago, IF it was there in the first place.

So are you telling me that amateurs can listen in on the JWICS top secret communication network?

Originally posted by fieryjaguarpaw
NASA isn't conserned with making a profit.

You are correct. It is even stated clearly in their policy

NASA is the front... the 'cover story' for the people and they make pretty pictures

It is not NASA thathas a moon base on Farside. It is not NASA who is doing the mining.

In fact if you look up the older Clementine link
www.cmf.nrl.navy.mil...

using the way back machine as they have now updated the browser.. you will see this statement

The Naval Research Laboratory is not affiliated in any way with any organization selling lunar property or acreage on the moon. NRL has no involvement, either officially or unofficially, in providing "after-sales service" for the purchase of lunar property from the Lunar Embassy, its franchisees, or any similar organizations. Disputes arising from the purchase of lunar property from such organizations must be resolved with the seller directly.

So the NAVY will not help you settle any private property claims or mining disputes

reply to post by TrueBrit


True Brit, if you read the post closely you would see that I posed it as hypothetical questions if the warning WAS true and if there WERE anything on the moon of an alien nature. If unsubstantiated posts or questions were not allowed on ATS, I think there would be one heck of a lot less posts and threads. Both of these, the warning and the structures on the moon, have been in threads here many times. I was simply asking what the Chinese intention of getting to the moon might mean if they were true. Stopping them because of the warning, being embarrassed by revelations, repercussions from ignoring the warning, and social implications. If everything were already substantiated by proof, what would be the point of trying to find out about the Secrets on Above Top Secrets? Yes, it's dangerous to go to the moon though the tech is fairly mature. Yes it is costly, but if there are truly structures on the moon I suspect it would require manned missions to explore them properly and no robotics could substitute for hands on, on the spot human exploration for scientific study. The Tower and Spire seem to be on NASA photos and in project Moon Blink, among other anomalies. We only explore the unsubstantiated, otherwise its simply going over what's already known.

Originally posted by SarK0Y
are you joking, i hope?

what do you call "dust" & how could you transform it to O2?

"dust" would be lunar regolith. Its all over the surface. It consist of iron oxide, silicon oxide, titanium oxide and thorium oxide. The HE3 is also embedded in the first few meters of this 'dust'

All you need is a solar furnace to smelt this 'dust' to extract the iron, titanium and thorium ( a nuclear fuel). Also you can make glass for fiberglass using this same method. As you heat the oxides you release the oxygen in the material. Collect that and you get oxygen, which you can combine with the free hydrogen on the moon to make water or rocket fuel

LUNAR AND MARTIAN FIBERGLASS AS A VERSATILE FAMILY
OF ISRU VALUE-ADDED PRODUCTS
www.lpi.usra.edu...

where is the least evidence that rocks were delivered from the Moon?

The minerals being brought home from the mining operation are not rocks... but liquid form of HE3. The rest, as the report says are used in situ

To transport it they use the liquid cargo carrier version of the Aquila mentioned in the last doc I posted earlier

Method of delivering lunar generated fluid to earth orbit using an external tank
Publication number: US5092545
Publication date: 1992-03-03
Inventor: BUTTERFIELD ANSEL J (US); GOSLEE JOHN W (US)
Applicant: NASA (US)

Abstract

ABSTRACT A method and apparatus are provided for delivering lunar generated fluid to Earth orbit from lunar orbit. Transport takes place in an external tank of a shuttle which has been suitably outfitted in Earth orbit for reusable travel between Earth orbit and a lunar orbit. The outfitting of the external tank includes the adding of an engine, an electrical system, a communication system, a guidance system, an aerobraking device, and a plurality of interconnected fluid storage tanks to the hydrogen and oxygen tanks of the external tank. The external tank is then propelled to lunar orbit the first time using Earth based propellant. In lunar orbit, the storage tanks are filled with the lunar generated fluid with the remainder tank volumes filled with lunar generated liquid oxygen and hydrogen which serve as propellants for returning the tank to Earth orbit where the fluid is off-loaded. The remaining lunar generated oxygen and hydrogen is then sufficient to return the external tank to lunar orbit so that a subsequent cycle of fluid delivery is repeated. A space station in a higher Earth orbit is preferably used to outfit the external tank, and a lunar node in lunar orbit is used to store and transfer the fluid and liquid oxygen and hydrogen to the external tank. The lunar generated fluid is preferably 3He.

Looks like this



The modules are moved around via small shuttles similar to the robotic x-37b that is doing exactly what up there?



The full canisters can be stored on the ISS and transported down via shuttle. If you look up older missions you will find some shuttle missions that the return weight is still classified Even in Wikipedia

My only missing link to all this was where was the HE3 delivered to and when.. Well I have that answer now and will make a thread on that in a few days. It will knock some socks off

The Aquila cargo vessels are made by Starcraft Boosters which is owned by Buzz Aldrin
buzzaldrin.com...

buzzaldrin.com...

Starcraft Booster has had launch records from Kwajalien for a very long time... You can read Jack Arneson's statement here. This is how I met him and he is now Pegasus's military researcher

www.thelivingmoon.com...

As far as putting Chinese tech down, I agree at this point, but I remember when we used to make fun of anything made in Japan too, and considered it to be cheap junk. Anyone question their "junk" these days? Copying is the first step. Learning from mistakes, copying better, improving along the way. After that, its creativity and imagination and then parity or better. Russia has had some excellent ideas but not much money, They still made some fine designs mixed in with real crap for their military. China, at least, has the money and seems to be pretty good at "borrowing" designs, And as their economy has been heating up, more people are being educated there and they are putting out large numbers of engineers, scientists, and other necessary graduates, maybe not as high on a per capita basis but impressive by volume of numbers. We scoff at their abilities for the future at our own risk. And their seeming disregard for human life (balanced by a desire to avoid embarrassment in the media) may lead to more than only baby steps in achieving goals in space exploration.

Information gathering to see the whole picture is all about connections. When you get enough bits and pieces and can start to connect the dots... you will find questions to ask that help you find more dots...

When you then use that information to ask the RIGHT questions in the RIGHT places you generally get answers.

Your comment on 'liquifying' minerals on the moon is 'right on time'. Our group, presently, is engaged in deep discussion as to modifying the minerals to be harvested, and liquifying (H3, for example) is/has been the subject of much heated discussion. Actually, I suggested (to our group) not so much 'liquifying' ...but 'changing the state' . If you look at some of my patents...you'll note that in these I teach 'change of state' (from liquid to a gas, for example) to accomplish some desired result: Entropy vs Enthalpy, for example. The discussions continue as of this writing, with all suggestions being considered by our group (and others) prior to making recommendations to those within and outside our group.

On the mining-thing. I can only state that in the broadest of senses mining operations have taken place on the lunar surface and are presently being conducted on Mars (and continue on a micro-scale, on the Moon). Although the use of terminology, 'mining' has been downplayed (by NASA) and there exists an 'internal memo'

Use of terminology, e.g., 'mining', could be considered (by some countries) to constitute a violation of the International Space Treaty. Thus, NASA is real-careful about use of terminology that could be considered a breach of 'Policy and Protocol'. I can give you this stuff as it's 'public information'. You have to look between the spaces/lines for more info and draw your own conclusions.

So whether or not you believe we are mining the moon matters little to me... I have my answers and will share what I can for those who wish to draw their own conclusions...

But in order to do that you have to be willing to dig deep and make the phone calls

REPORT ON THE CONSTRUCTION AND TESTING OF A BUCKET WHEEL EXCAVATOR
www.lpi.usra.edu...

The Northern Centre for Advanced Technologies Inc. (NORCAT), in partnership with Electric Vehicle Controllers Ltd. (EVC), is presently engaged in the development and adaptation of existing mining technologies and methodologies for use extra-terrestrially as precursor and enabling technologies for ISRU and for use as ISSE in support of longer term missions.

More specifically, NORCAT, in collaboration with Colorado School of Mines, has developed, constructed, and tested a bucket wheel excavator. The unit is based upon the design developed by CSM’s Mike Duke and Tim Muff.

Tim Muff is now currently working at Lockheed Martin Skunk Works

You cannot just sit in a forum and expect to find truth... you need to do your own legwork so you KNOW your sources are sound

Originally posted by zorgon
All you need is a solar furnace to smelt this 'dust' to extract the iron, titanium and thorium ( a nuclear fuel). Also you can make glass for fiberglass using this same method. As you heat the oxides you release the oxygen in the material. Collect that and you get oxygen, which you can combine with the free hydrogen on the moon to make water or rocket fuel

I guess if there was a solar surface on the moon and an old probe caught it in a photo, maybe it would look like this:

I think the high albedo of the solar furnace dishes would allow us to distinguish between them and standard, non-shiny communications/radar dishes.

I know for sure that nothing as silly as us getting "warned off the moon" stopped the public moon missions, No conspiracy there, it was a public spectacle and that was all. But I also know for sure there is a secret manned space program that has been active for a very long time (almost from the get go). I do know what it was originally used for (or intended to be used for) but technology has long since surpassed the original reason to have a secret manned space program. So, while I know it is still ongoing, I do not know if they are actually sending anyone up, what they are doing if they do send someone up.....etc.

If I had to guess, I would say they have trained personnel and equipment that can be used secretly when needed, but probably have not used it in a really long time.

I do not believe they are currently mining the moon or even doing anything other than taking pictures, smashing crap into it and other boring run-of-the-mill space stuff. But I also believe there are some big plans for the moon on a lot of drawing boards right now.......

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts But I also believe there are some big plans for the moon on a lot of drawing boards right now.......

That much is a guarantee.. despite Obama cancelling NASA missions.. He never did say no one else could go. And whether or not the mines are captive now or not... one thing is certain.

NO WAY we would let China get the goods

But ummm I thought you were planning a thread

reply to post by zorgon


I was going to make a thread. But as it turns out, I'm not remotely as smart and eloquent as I thought I was. Two major things kept me from writing a proper thread:

1) Could not find a way to share what I know without revealing things that savvy ATS members could use to either find me, find those I mention without names, or use against me at a later date, lol.....

2) Given that I could not find a way to share what I know without revealing things I don't want to.....I couldn't find a way to post a thread about it without me sounding like a complete nutter.....

So yeah......

But there is a secret space program. I just don't know how active it is or what it's purpose is. Heck, it may turn out that it's purpose is dated, and that it is nothing more than government waste, allowed to go on longer than most due to it's clandestine nature.

But I would love to know what ever became of our nuclear weapons that we had in orbit. Maybe that has something to do with the classified re-entry weight of some of your shuttles? Hint hint....

Originally posted by IgnoreTheFacts
But I would love to know what ever became of our nuclear weapons that we had in orbit. Maybe that has something to do with the classified re-entry weight of some of your shuttles? Hint hint....

Possibly. Those nukes out there were kinda bad news anyway. Not that easy to service. But I know at least some of that return cargo was a certain 'coating' material that was originally manufactured out there. But since that was before the ISS I still don't know where they made it

Oh well. Maybe its time to knock on a couple doors I have been hesitant on opening. I'll keep ya posted 'off the record'

reply to post by zorgon

"dust" would be lunar regolith. Its all over the surface. It consist of iron oxide, silicon oxide, titanium oxide and thorium oxide. The HE3 is also embedded in the first few meters of this 'dust'

well-right, Amicus but mineral mining on the Moon is far stage of Her colonization

All you need is a solar furnace to smelt this 'dust' to extract the iron,

useless method because of too vast areas have to be used to collect solar energy

he minerals being brought home from the mining operation are not rocks... but liquid form of HE3. The rest, as the report says are used in situ

that's hella funny, even more than Hell can be btw, after He3: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by SarK0Y
useless method because of too vast areas have to be used to collect solar energy

www.lunarpedia.org...

even more than Hell can be

btw, after He3: www.abovetopsecret.com...

Interesting formula

reply to post by zorgon

At an intensity of 1366 watts/m2

that's what i was talking about: "..too vast areas" Solar cells, Solar + Fuel cells are only first stage for Lunar Base & further will need more useful solutions: fission/fusion nuclear reactors. + i think we can get more powerful sources.