"By buying a ticket, you gave up a lot of your rights." -The TSA

I've been engrossed in the various articles pertaining to the ever more Gestapo-like tactics of the TSA under Janet Nepalitano the past couple of months and I stumbled across this article today.
TSA ejects Oceanside man for refusing security check In reality, it seems like the article title was carefully crafted to obfuscate what really happened and pre-condition the average reader to have a confrontational attitude against the passenger from the get go. A more accurate headline would have been "Man submits to basic security check, refuses when TSA crosses the line into sexual assault." but I digress. The role the media plays in felating our government's desire to make Nineteen-Eighty-Four a more palatable reality isn't the focal point here.

While I was reading the article, something stuck in my craw big time... The following is the transcript of a conversation between the passenger, John Tyner, and an (unfortunately) unnamed TSA supervisor:

A supervisor is heared re-explaining the groin check process to Tyner then adding "If you're not comfortable with that we can escort you back out and you don't have to fly today."

Tyner responded "OK, I don't understand how a sexual assault can be made a condition of my flying."

"This is not considered a sexual assault," replied the supervisor, calmly.

"It would be if you were not the government," said Tyner.

"By buying your ticket you gave up a lot of rights," countered the TSA supervisor.

"I think the government took them away after 9/11,' said Tyner.

"OK," came the reply

WHAT!?!?!

This nation was founded on the principles of free men having inalienable rights. Those rights were enumerated for us by the founding fathers. The key words here are "free men" and "inalienable." You cannot "give up" your rights because noone can take your rights as an American. The only way you can "give up" your rights (barring commision of a crime) is by renouncing your citizenship as an American. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY. So, considering this, you are either being considered a criminal by the government and TSA or you are legally renouncing your citizenship when you fly? I think we know it isn't option #2, because that would open up some doors for refusal of service, tax responsibility, etc... so I would say it is a safe assumption to assume that the TSA is simply considering everyone who's trying to fly is a convicted criminal...

WHOOPS! Somebody needs to break out their pocket Constitution.
4th Amendment:

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

5th Amendment:

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation

NOTE: This raises yet another specter... you cannot be held or processed as a criminal in the United States unless you have been Mirandized. Is the TSA reading the Miranda warning to everyone when they purchase their ticket? No? Hmmm....

All of the conversations and arguments over naked body scanners, pat downs, groping, and illegal searches essentially need to be wrapped up in a single topic and that topic needs to be tried in the courts. The real issue here is whether or not the TSA is legally authorized to conduct self contained due process of law required to affect American citizens' accessibility to their Constitutional Rights. If the answer from the courts is "Yes, they do" then, in order to continue the way they are, the TSA will have to follow the same rules and standards as the rest of the justice system of the USA. That means full disclosure to the traveler, Miranda Warnings when tickets are purchased, and a ffully transparent system. This will also mean that they will be forced to declare any air traveler as a criminal, and inform them each of such prior to them choosing air transportation. Unfortunately, I think we all know that the federal government will never allow this change to occur. Any court that dared judge against the TSA would immediately be overruled by a higher court and, if necessary, the SCOTUS would be comprimised and instructed to uphold the TSA's God status by powers higher than the Justices.

Yet one more reason why this Burd doesn't fly.

A closing quote which I think applies nicely to this:

Government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take from you everything you have.

-Gerald Ford

Can everyone please take a moment from their day to slap anyone they know who wanted a government big enough to "keep us safe" from those scary terrorists and ended up instead giving us a government big enough to rob us of everything else.

Yeah,that's called an "unconscionable contract".

According to The Constitution,those little fellers are unlawful/illegal.

But nobody reads the fine print,in too much of a hurry!.

And it's way to late to flee over the mountains like the VonTrapps did. What with RFID's now in our passpoets and enhanced driver's lisences.

There is an easy solution for this. They could issue paper-like disposable clothing, which you must buy. You can purchase different styles and colors, but mostly it is going to be kind of a thin flimsy stuff that you can kind of see through but you don't feel naked. It should be waterproof or at least resistant so it doesn't tear easily and if you spill a drink on it, it should just bead off of the material. These would come prepackaged, with some sort of tamper seal on them. Before boarding the plane you go into an area where you disrobe in a stall behind a curtain and your clothing and personal items are first screened and then bagged. You board the plane wearing only your paper suit. Once you get to your destination, your clothing and personal items are returned to you. During the flight, it may be cold in your little disposable outfits, so they'd have to turn up the heat, which would effect the cost of the flight. You can purchase extra blankets or something once you are on the plane if you feel exposed or you feel cold.

I don't think I am going to fly anywhere anymore. If they tried doing this *snip* to me I would tell them to *snip* and walk out like the guy the guy in the article did.


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If people don't start standing up to this en mass, then it will only get worse.

reply to post by this_is_who_we_are
No need for passport RFID,where's your cel-phone?.

They're both right. By buying the ticket, you do agree to subject yourself to any security measures required in order to fly. The security official was correct, if you don't like it, you don't have to fly today.

However, the Government DID take away many rights after 9/11, with GWB signing of the Patriot Act.

Americans sat back and let it happen, no protests, no discussion, no public outcry, nothing.

Sheeple. IT'S YOUR OWN FAULT - you bought this upon yourselves. You gave up your rights to complain, by letting the government take them away from you, and didn't realize you had until it was too late.

"Those who give up freedom for security deserve neither".

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
Yeah,that's called an "unconscionable contract".

According to The Constitution,those little fellers are unlawful/illegal.

But nobody reads the fine print,in too much of a hurry!.

Of course it's illegal, but the "Patriot Act" gives them the authority to do so. No one has ever officially questioned the massive unconstitutionality of the Patriot Act, because everyone sat back and let it happen when GWB signed it in to law, and even asked "Thank you, Sir, for protecting us, may we have another", when they reelected him in 2004.

Unrelated to the purpose of the thread but...

you cannot be held or processed as a criminal in the United States unless you have been Mirandized.

No they don't. Miranda warning is only involved if the officers plan to use anything you say as evidence against you. You can be arrested without a Miranda warning if they have other avenues in which your words, past, present, or future, are not necessary for you to be prosecuted.

reply to post by babybunnies
But....

The patriot act is blatantly unconstitutional.

I guess it has to do with how much tolerance we have for being herded around like animals.

Maybe we are.

reply to post by jessieg


I'm sorry, but I don't think this is a good idea...

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reply to post by SpectreDC
ANYTHING you say,can,and WILL be used against you in a court of law.

The cops WILL NOT say anything which makes you look anything but guilty,it isn't their job.

Your job,is to be quiet until you consult counsel,as in,I would like to have a lawyer present while I am being questioned.

Of course,your appointed counsel will tell you to shut the hell up!.

Just be quiet,defeat their machinations and twisted definitions.

Originally posted by chiponbothshoulders
reply to post by babybunnies

 

But....

The patriot act is blatantly unconstitutional.

I guess it has to do with how much tolerance we have for being herded around like animals.

Maybe we are.

Yes, the Patriot Act (the whole thing) is incredibly unconstitutional. However, most Americans bent over and took it in the place where the sun don't shine, because they believed the GWB had their best interests at heart. They even reelected the President who took away more Constitutional rights than anyone else in history, as a "Thank You".

For those of you who don't know about this act, read up on it here en.wikipedia.org...

This was passed just about SIX WEEKS after 9/11. It took them only SIX WEEKS to negotiate a bill that took away most of the Constitutional freedoms enjoyed by Americans, and Amercans just sat back and watched it all happen.

It's taken people NEARLY TEN YEARS to realize what they did in those six weeks, as they're just starting to realize now which freedoms they've lost.

reply to post by SpectreDC



You're correct. Anyone that thinks you cannot be held as a criminal without being Marandized should talk to the nice folks incarcerated at Guatanamo Bay. While not officially "in America", it IS an American base subject to US law. Unilaterally declaring them as a new class on "enemy combatant" doesn't protect the USA from having to use US law or the Geneva Convention while treating these prisoners, and they have repeatedly flaunted both.


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If this policy is allowed to stand, it will be used on almost ANYTHING:

You don't like police check points, don't drive
Don't want the cops to listen to your cell phone conversations, don't talk on a cell phone
Don't like your medical records reviewed, don't get medical treatment

What's so special about flying?....nothing

Yes, there were past criminal acts involving planes but terrorism can and has happened in other places.

Originally posted by this_is_who_we_are
And it's way to late to flee over the mountains like the VonTrapps did. What with RFID's now in our passpoets and enhanced driver's lisences.

Your passport won't be an issue - they'd have to get within a couple of feet to detect it. The EDL you can ping at a bit greater distance - maybe up to 300 feet or so. Still, if they're that close, they can see you anyway. So flee at will!

The sad part is, there are still a lot of things neither the backscatter scanner nor the patdowns will ever detect. And nothing much can be done about the TSA, short of the Congress hamstringing them.

reply to post by Daughter2


The Patriot Act covers all three of the items you suggested, and has already.

Patriot Act allows police to enter your home, vehicle, or any other private place without just cause or even while your home.

Patriot Act allows widespread wiretapping of phones without court approval, just on the authority that you "might" be a terrorist.

Patriot Act allows intelligence agencies to gather any information about you that they like, which includes your medical records.

You gave up all three of these freedoms in October 2001 when you allowed GWB to sign Patriot Act without protest. Almost ten years later, and people are just starting to question the provisions of this act now.



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Having done a fair bit of international air travel I totally avoid the USA for the reasons stated above and then some. This looks like domestic travel you are talking about but it has hit international as well. On top of all these 'measures' that are supposed to stop/prevent hijackings the immigration officials at US airports are some of the rudest, ignorant and arrogant officials I have ever come across. And I have been to 20 different countries (at least).

Last time I came through the US from UK to NZ (went that way because I wanted to spend a few days in the US site-seeing) my partner and I were made to feel like criminals by the guy that processed us. I had to bite my tongue because pointing out to them that their attitude sucks will only lead to more draconian searches. Sorry for wanting to see your country and spend some money helping your economy Mr immigration man.

I am all for making planes safe. But have you seen the folks walking about loading your bags at some of these airports? The best and easiest way to plant a bomb on a plane is to get a job at an airport.

As for the paper suits suggestion, I suspect that the poster was joking but I honestly can see it going that far. But it could even get worse. I joked to one of my friends that we would have to wear paper suits, and not be allowed to take any baggage onboard at all, but be forced to purchase clothes at the other end. Then of course a passport can have explosive wired into it so we will need to be electronically chipped (into our arm James Bond style) to stop that from happening.

But, as they say we have the choice not to travel. Unless you have to travel for your job, or to see a sick relative, or heaven forbid expand your mind!

I have to agree here - while I've had some passes through the airport that were pretty bland, the really bad ones have always been in the US. Even the South American countries are easier to get through.

Have had some really weird experiences with US Customs the last year or two.


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