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Being Gay - permanent or temporary?

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posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 09:34 PM
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Originally posted by thewarehouse
Its seems I'm the only adult here, so I answer you "boy"


You don't know the difference between a sexual orientation and an fetish, because your sexual education is based on pornos. Shrugs' who cares ..
edit on 14-11-2010 by thewarehouse because: (no reason given)


Best answer anyone could have given




posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 09:56 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by thewarehouse
Its seems I'm the only adult here, so I answer you "boy"


You don't know the difference between a sexual orientation and an fetish, because your sexual education is based on pornos. Shrugs' who cares ..
edit on 14-11-2010 by thewarehouse because: (no reason given)


Best answer anyone could have given



What on earth are you guys on?

nothing in that post of his made snese, and it was needlessly belittling.

Was my post directed to anything but the irreversibility of homosexuality? How is it relevant to mention fetish and sexual orientation. What point was he trying to prove? that some people are bisexual, and get turned on by almost anything (until beastiality becomes legalized, seeing animals are getting closer everyday to getting 'human' rights)? was he trying to point out a difference between those who are naturally that way, and those who choose to do it?

How in hells name is that relevant? His post made no sense, ansd clearly he dont speak goody english, with his "an english' and putting punctuation after an s, that already pluralized the word.

And what the hell with that jab," who learns sexual education through porno". No, ive read books. Psychology books, metaphysical books etc. Im giving my opinion that was backed up by evidence.

Who cares? i care. I dont like this lie going around that being gay is a irreversible condition. No, its a life choice. You either do, and commit to it, or you find some way to overcome it (for instance by getting in touch with organizations who help people with these things).

I didnt expose myself to get an immature response like from "educated by porno". I mentioned that cause it was a seriously confusing time in my life. Like most young guys growing up in suburbia, sex was on my mind. I had a problem, and i eventually got over my problem. Psychic problems can be fixed.
edit on 14-11-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 10:01 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally
How in hells name is that relevant? His post made no sense, ansd clearly he dont speak goody english, with his "an english' and putting punctuation after an s, that already pluralized the word.


Well.....




Who cares? i care. I dont like this lie going around that being gay is a irreversible condition. No, its a life choice. You either do, and commit to it, or you find some way to overcome it (for instance by getting in touch with organizations who help people with these things).



That statement above shows your lack of immaturity and understanding of the how a homosexuals mind works. Im betting that you are either a child or some religious nut, hell bent on insisitng that sexual orientation is choice or an illness rather than something we can not choose.

In our day and age, Im still surprised that people have this attitude. Thought people's brains were more eveolved than that, so thanks for proving that wrong



posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 10:34 PM
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Originally posted by LordBucket
Repetition is useful, but intensity is just as relevant. Also, early imprinting may be especially significant. The first time someone has an intense sexual experience is likely to stay with them for life. It's much easier to "unlearn" something acquired later. Someone whose very first sexual experience is a pleasurable and emotionally significant homosexual experience at an early age will have a more difficult time giving it up than someone who casually masturbated to gay porn a couple times in college.


Thats a very good point. It was much easier for me to work my problem out, which is why its completely gone now and it really took only a month or two of staying away from pornography in general to renew my anticipation for it.





So is smoking. And yes, people who choose to stop smoking can teach themselves to stop smoking. I agree that homosexuality might not be healthy, and I agree that it is a condition that can be overcome. But in terms of how unhealthy, I would put it in a similar category as smoking or being overweight. Not something we want to encourage. And these behaviors may often be indicative of a deeper problem. But they're probably not the end of the world either.



I dont get the ambivalence. If something is wrong, unhealthy, why encourage it? why the apathy? That to me isnt very healthy either. Our we so bored that we need to do things that are wrong to enjoy ourselves? is the problem really just a "life isnt interesting unless i depreciate it once in awhile by acting reckless.". That again is a dionysian idea that i simpyl cannot for the life of me understand. Really. I feel like an ant trying to fight off an elaphant when it comes to me criticizing liberalism and homosexuality. Most people here sing the same toon as the rest of society. They have a latent, if not awakened misanthropic need to see evil, in whatever its manifestations, as good in moderate doses.




I think that comparison is not a very fair one. Yes, you gave up porn, but could you give up heterosexuality? I think you could. There are people who choose celibacy for religious reasons. But do you see how that might be a bit more difficult than merely giving up porn? Can it be done? Yes, of course. And yes, homosexuals can stop acting on their desires, and with a properly disciplined mind they may be able to stop having those desires altogether. But I wonder if your efforts might be better spent understanding the condition than telling others that they're dirty and animalistic for it.


Well, exposing myself to an atmpshere makes my porn addiction, which seems small in comparison, actually quite equal in terms of the desire thats produced. Being so close to porn, that is, a click away from looking, you could say my natural heterosexual desire is amplidied many times because the situation completely caters to it. Not having anal sex is an action that requires a great deal of "what ifs". First, you would have to meet another gay guy, which would necessiate the gay person in question to begin associating himself with other gays. Than he would actually have to have anal sex. The comparison is fair.

I understand the condition to the best of my ability. Obviously, i can never understand the extent of how life tearing it can be. I know that when i felt this way it scared me. I didnt want to be that way (it was especially bad because i had "tasted" of heterosexuality, and so couldnt understand this change).. But someone who has life goals and sees this as an enormous mountain to overcome, with this society of ours, i dont blame him to succumbing to the social pressure of accepting and embracing his condition, and seeing it as natural and apart of "who he is" as a peron.

I really do feel for them, and i would never ever condone harming a gay person for thir being gay. I simply advocate moral responsibility. I dont want to insulate the person either by making them feel unusual and unhealth because of this desire. I mentioned how in Jewish thought, everyone is dealt some measure of an evil inclination, and to some, more spiritually evolved people, evil speech is just as bad, in theory, as homosexuality. Such a person seeks to correct the intrinsic cause of his being; to transform his very desires. And it works, i have seen angelic saintly men who glisten holiness because of the spiritual discipline they conditioned their hearts to. And, its not one of those, habitual things either, its a "move from strength to strength" type of growth, where habit itself is the very thing they consider immoral and wrong.

It seems superhuman, and to many, it is. But each of us can atleast make an effort. A common analogy is if you passed by a mountain of gold would you just leave the gold because theres so much of it? or would you take as much as you can?. Whatever is in your power to do, do it, if you fail, dont sweat it, try again, again and again and always believe you can grow.

This is why its so important for people with SSA (same-sex attraction) to go to social groups with people with the same condition. Knowing people who have overcome this issue helps you to stay on top and never lose focus. Just as alcoholics feel strengthened by AA and overeaters with OA.

But i dont have the typical christian right view which is very bigotted and not well thought out. Theyre right, but they dont express their disproval in an intelligent and mature manner. This is also why the media gives such bigotted morons so much exposure; because it IS obviously bigotted. Any rational person will reject it, and accept the opposing view, which is presented as rational and compassionate. This is hardcore manipulation, typical of how the government, media, etc always conduct themselves. Always some social manipulation going on.

One of the reasons why i made this post was because i watched the documentrary "trembling before G-d" a documentary about Gay Ørthodox Chassidic Jews, and i saw how he completely manipulated the real attitude of orthodoxc Jewry towards the issue of homosexuality. In fact, he actually interviewed many Rabbis who gave articulate expression to the Jewish perspective, yet their interviews werent included in the documentary. wonder why that is (im sure it wasnt the directors choice, otherwise he wouldnt have interviewed the men. Whoever DISTRIBUTES the movie, however, gets the final say in whats in and whats out. That part certainly jeopardized the view they wanted to convey, that disapproving homosexuality is categorically wrong)
edit on 14-11-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 10:47 PM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by dontreally
How in hells name is that relevant? His post made no sense, ansd clearly he dont speak goody english, with his "an english' and putting punctuation after an s, that already pluralized the word.


Well.....




Who cares? i care. I dont like this lie going around that being gay is a irreversible condition. No, its a life choice. You either do, and commit to it, or you find some way to overcome it (for instance by getting in touch with organizations who help people with these things).



That statement above shows your lack of immaturity and understanding of the how a homosexuals mind works. Im betting that you are either a child or some religious nut, hell bent on insisitng that sexual orientation is choice or an illness rather than something we can not choose.

In our day and age, Im still surprised that people have this attitude. Thought people's brains were more eveolved than that, so thanks for proving that wrong


I agree, it does show my lack of immaturity.



posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 10:54 PM
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Whatever you say =)

As for me, I never had an attraction towards a male, nor do I ever want too. I tried to see myself with a man when I was a teen, thinking about what it would be like and blah blah....doesnt seem right for me. I am gay. And proud!! =D =D I am happy the way I am and even if it was a choice, I would choose being gay. Not a choice though..


edit to fix and re arrange some words
edit on 14-11-2010 by capgirl because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by capgirl
Whatever you say =)

As for me, I never had an attraction towards a male, nor do I ever want too. I tried to see myself with a man when I was a teen, thinking about what it would be like and blah blah....doesnt seem right for me. I am gay. And proud!! =D =D I am happy the way I am and even if it was a choice, I would choose being gay. Not a choice though..


edit to fix and re arrange some words
edit on 14-11-2010 by capgirl because: (no reason given)


Well, if youve been reading our discussion you would see that it is possible, even LordBucket agrees that it can be changed, only reserving the opinion that it really doesnt matter to begin with, because he finds nothing morally wrong with it...

Do you think its not possible because thats what the media says? how than do you explain the many gays who are now ex-gays, who literally have a heterosexual drvie now? Do they not exist? or do they disturb your convenient fairy tale that youre not responsible for your behavior?

You are responsible, and in your opinion, youre proud of that. Which is your right both as an american and as a spiritual being created with free will.

A crazy person doesnt realize that fire will burn him, He will stick his hand in a furnace and revel in the pain of it. you go to an institution and its a common thing for a crazed person to eat his own feces, or cut himself, without realizing the reality that hes hurting himself.

If you believe that being gay doesnt affect you as a person, because you've accepted it, that doesnt mean that your essential self considers it a good thing. I guess only you can wait and see if that was a good choice (yes this is a reference to the afterlife)
edit on 14-11-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 11:25 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally

Originally posted by capgirl
Whatever you say =)

As for me, I never had an attraction towards a male, nor do I ever want too. I tried to see myself with a man when I was a teen, thinking about what it would be like and blah blah....doesnt seem right for me. I am gay. And proud!! =D =D I am happy the way I am and even if it was a choice, I would choose being gay. Not a choice though..


edit to fix and re arrange some words
edit on 14-11-2010 by capgirl because: (no reason given)


Well, if youve been reading our discussion you would see that it is possible, even LordBucket agrees that it can be changed, only reserving the opinion that it really doesnt matter to begin with, because he finds nothing morally wrong with it...

Do you think its not possible because thats what the media says? how than do you explain the many gays who are now ex-gays, who literally have a heterosexual drvie now? Do they not exist? or do they disturb your convenient fairy tale that youre not responsible for your behavior?

You are responsible, and in your opinion, youre proud of that. Which is your choice.



Oh I agree that gays can be turned back to hetrosexuals. The ones that CHOSE to be gay. I didnt choose how I was born. I grew up always being in a church environment, where I was told many things are wrong. Homosexuality may be moraly wrong, but I didnt choose it. =)

Ah the ignorance. I love it. You all have a good night



posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 11:34 PM
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Originally posted by capgirl

Originally posted by dontreally

Originally posted by capgirl
Whatever you say =)

As for me, I never had an attraction towards a male, nor do I ever want too. I tried to see myself with a man when I was a teen, thinking about what it would be like and blah blah....doesnt seem right for me. I am gay. And proud!! =D =D I am happy the way I am and even if it was a choice, I would choose being gay. Not a choice though..


edit to fix and re arrange some words
edit on 14-11-2010 by capgirl because: (no reason given)


Well, if youve been reading our discussion you would see that it is possible, even LordBucket agrees that it can be changed, only reserving the opinion that it really doesnt matter to begin with, because he finds nothing morally wrong with it...

Do you think its not possible because thats what the media says? how than do you explain the many gays who are now ex-gays, who literally have a heterosexual drvie now? Do they not exist? or do they disturb your convenient fairy tale that youre not responsible for your behavior?

You are responsible, and in your opinion, youre proud of that. Which is your choice.



Oh I agree that gays can be turned back to hetrosexuals. The ones that CHOSE to be gay. I didnt choose how I was born. I grew up always being in a church environment, where I was told many things are wrong. Homosexuality may be moraly wrong, but I didnt choose it. =)

Ah the ignorance. I love it. You all have a good night


no, im referring in general. how is it ignorant?

That website i linked has testimonials of Orthodox Jews who were BORN - not chose to be gay. Its a very dificult thing for them to deal with, but many have them have completely changed themselves. Others find it harder, but still see an improvement.

It IS possible, 100%. Theres no reason why it shouldnt be.

Even our understanding of the physical organism shows how it can be done. Thoughts influence the nervous system (like when you get scared or nervous, a particular thought can trigger a stream of nervous feelings throughout your body), which in turn effects the endocrine system. If i were to obessess over silly things i could make myself paranoid. I could continue thinking this way until a mental breakdown occurs. than i coulsd go to a doctor who would take a blood test and i would bet you 1 zillion dollars that a chemical imbalance would be found, all because i had thought some things that became rooted very deeply in my subconscious.

See how powerful consciousness is? We have all the power. The body is simply a tool, yes, it can be willful and it can at times be very hard to overcome it, but with meditation, discipline and if needed (especially in the case of people with serious psyhic disorders, not homosexuality, which is very managable in comparison) drugs, you can beat it and train it.

Hope im not offending you. Its hard to tip toe about, criticizing a certain attitude without giving off the impression that i hate or have no respect for gays. Theyre great people, im sure. I just dont condone the behavior, and i also know that it can be corrected with discipline and tenacity. In fact, my very close cousin, who was a brother to me at one point in life, is gay. I dont treat him any differently. We still go to the cottage together every summer, although its strange knowing he has a boyfriend (who could come along next summer :puz
. This isnt a typical christian violent attitude that would prefer to see a gay person get killed than to spend anytime with him. I feel my stance is both compassionate and loyal to my principles. I dont feel with 'gay' people its necessary to treat them as evil, as mutant freaks trying to corrupt others (although i find gay pride parades as obscenely irresponsible. Such people deserve to be condemned for that gaudy thoughtless promotion of homosexuality. Ive met many gay people who are embarrassed that this goes on. It is not socially healthy nor it is good in justifying homosexuality. It makes you people look like perverted wanton sex addicts. You want to do that stuff in your house, thats your right, but on the streets, in public? that is simply, wrong. Here in Toronto its especially bad with one of the largest gay pride parades in the world).
edit on 15-11-2010 by dontreally because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 14 2010 @ 11:39 PM
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Originally posted by dontreally


When i was 17 or 18 i had a very bad pornography addiction. I simply could not get enough of it. 3 or 4 times a day i would masturbate and besides smelling bad, i noticed that my desire became lessened. I no longer became as excited as i used to, so, for a brief period, i began looking at transexual porn, and than i started feeling a attraction to men.





I.
cant.
breathe.


aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh HAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHAHAHA

did you ever consider bathing after the spankfest? thats my only question.



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 12:13 AM
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Originally posted by Lysergic

Originally posted by dontreally


When i was 17 or 18 i had a very bad pornography addiction. I simply could not get enough of it. 3 or 4 times a day i would masturbate and besides smelling bad, i noticed that my desire became lessened. I no longer became as excited as i used to, so, for a brief period, i began looking at transexual porn, and than i started feeling a attraction to men.





I.
cant.
breathe.


aaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhh HAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHAHAHA

did you ever consider bathing after the spankfest? thats my only question.


I was brutually honest.


I suppose its embarrassing.

Did i shower? I dont think i did. Back than i showered once every two or 3 days (shower everday now
) so i sorta smelled alot.

Its apt that such obsessive perverson leaves a foul smell (smell being a purely 'spiritual' sense)



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 12:33 AM
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No one wants to play with dirty equipment, thats why you got to clean your balls.




edit on 15-11-2010 by Lysergic because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 12:40 AM
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OP, have you ever thought that you may be bisexual?

If you are sexually attracted to men and women, then you might be



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 12:52 AM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman
OP, have you ever thought that you may be bisexual?

If you are sexually attracted to men and women, then you might be


I could get off on animals if i wanted to, and so could you.

and so could you get into s@m. you can literally do it, if you want to.

Calling me Bi is a low blow. I wouldnt have mentioned all this if i wasnt completely secure with my sexuality;and i certainly wouldnt be asserting that ones sexual orientation can be corrected through willful thought over a long period of time, which adjust patterns in the unconscious and eventually balances the production of the chemical responsible for a heterosexual inclination.

Also, according to freud and other psychologists, were all 'bisexual', in that we all possess the ability to be attracted to either sex simply by attaching our thoughts to the fantasy of it.



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 12:54 AM
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How do you feel about Funtari?



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 01:10 AM
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Originally posted by dontreally
Calling me Bi is a low blow.


WTF?

You are attracted to men, and women, and all thats in between, yet thats a low blow?

I think your sexual orientation is the least of your issues



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 01:23 AM
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I dont get the ambivalence. If something is wrong,
unhealthy, why encourage it? why the apathy?

Well, I did say very specifically a couple posts back that:

"I think that encouraging homosexuality is probably not a healthy direction for society.

It doesn't make sense to encourage homosexuality any more than it makes sense to encourage people to lead sedentary lives and eat nothing but candy."


So, I'm not for encouraging it. For example, I think teaching children that it's an "equally valid" lifestyle is probably unwise.



kabbalah

Ahh. You read Kabbalah. Very good, that will make this conversation much easier, as we'll be able to skip most of the irrelevancies and skip straight to the point.

I perceive homosexuality itself as mostly irrevelant. The act of homosexual sex is not especially a problem. Rather, homosexuality is a manifestation of an unhealthy energy flow. Homosexuality is more like an outlet that releases energy that a certain configuration of system cannot otherwise accomodate.



sodomy
this is an actual occultic practice which is
for this precise purpose, to contact demonic powers

It may be used for the purpose of "contacting" them, but it would be more accurate to descibe it as being like throwing fish guts into the water to attract sharks. Male-on-male anal sex is especially efficient in this regard, as the masculine sexual energy from both participants has an especially difficult time finding any feminine counterpart, and thus generally drains away from the human sphere where it may end up feeding what you might call "demons."



why the apathy?

I wouldn't characterize my views about homosexuality as apathetic...but I do recognize that they're far less emotionally charged than some. Yes, in the previous paragraph I've just acknowledge that homosexual sex siphons human energy and feeds it to "demons." That seems like it should be very much not a good thing, and I agree that it is not...but it's helpful to keep things in context. When we masturbate, we're also draining energy from the human sphere and feeding it to "demons." When we get angry and idlely seethe because someone cuts us off on the freeway, we're draining energy from the human sphere and feeding it to "demons." When we stub our toes and cry fury into the air, when small children bruise their shins and cry on the ground, when a highschool girl sulks over whether some boy likes her...anytime we release energy of any kind that does not bear fruit, we are channeling energy out of the human sphere where it may feed demons. Or psychic parasites. Or astral entities. Or any number of non-human beings that feed upon our emanations.

Homosexual sex just happens to be an extremely efficient means of accomplishing this.

It is also, for some people, a suitable release of energies that they are otherwise unable or unwilling to use. If a child smashes his hand in a car door, and then cries himself to sleep, do you berate him for wasteful use of energy? No. It doesn't help him. You allow him to express in the manner he understands, and trust that he will learn to not smash his hand again. Homosexuality is much like this. It is an outlet for a "damaged" energy system. Whether or not we can accomodate it, energy generally flows into our systems. If more energy flows into a system than flows out of it, beyond the abliity of that system to accomodate the surplus...things either start to break, or the incoming flow is stalled by the pressure.

A great deal of the human experience is the outward manifestation of energy discharges that our collective system is either unable or unwilling to accomodate. This experience is a meaningful part of our reason for being here. And yes, you might immediately point out that it might be more "proper" for that energy to be directed upward to attain union with, as you might punctuate it, G-d. And you'd probably be right.

But I'm not convinced that humanity is at a level where it's reasonable to expect everyone to be able to do that.

It's ok if a child wastefully cries his energies away until he falls asleep, if that is the expression he requires for his situation. And it's ok if a homosexual wastefully sodomizes another, if that is the expression they require for theirs. Do you we encourage anal sex? No. No more than we encourage children to cry just for the sake of crying.

We benefit from understanding the energy states that result in the manifestation of particular external forms. And one of the ways to come to understand those energy states is to experience them. It is not the external forms that are our adversary. Having an unhealthy energy state and then "bottling up" the surplus does not particularly benefit us. Telling a homosexual that he shouldn't have homosexual sex because it's not healthy is like telling a pressure release valve at your local nuclear plant that it shouldn't release pressure from the tank, because it's improper to have excess pressure in it. Sure...it's true that you don't want excess pressure in your nuclear plant's water tank. But if you do, there's already a problem. That problem is not made better by welding the release valve shut.

Now, I simplify. And yes, there are cases in which a homosexual choosing to abstain from sex may be of benefit. And yes, the "psychic release" from homsexual sex may have impact on the surrounding environment. But I'm not convinced that telling people to weld closed their release valves is the best solution.


edit on 15-11-2010 by LordBucket because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 02:03 AM
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Originally posted by OzWeatherman

Originally posted by dontreally
Calling me Bi is a low blow.


WTF?

You are attracted to men, and women, and all thats in between, yet thats a low blow?

I think your sexual orientation is the least of your issues


uh huh. yes.



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 02:53 AM
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I have been reading much into neuroplasticity, and I use to be of the thought that Homosexuality is an inbuilt irreversible "condition" like heterosexuality. It seems that this is wrong now. You can activate and inactivate genes through mental conditioning and environment. You can change people that are labeled "retarded" such as autistic and individuals with cognitive deficiencies, into "normal" functioning human beings.

It seems that if someone really wants to, he can become heterosexual through strict conditiong long enough for the gene or brain-region to re-wire itself in the manner of a heterosexual.



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 04:37 AM
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reply to post by Somehumanbeing
 


Even if somebody didn't want to change, a variety of techniques could be applied to cause them to change anyway, conditioned response being the primary generic term for the concept. Examples of this abound in modern history, from child soldiers in some warring African nations being required to kill their own family members as part of an indoctrination, to Patty Hearst and her probable experiences with Stockholm Syndrome. Even the United States military regularly churns out new batches of people who have been conditioned to ignore their normal impulses and to literally shoot in whatever direction they are ordered to and at whatever target is specified.

So it's not an argument about whether or not people can be made to change... The fact that they can be altered is already accepted fact. The issue, really, is how this forced change effects the persons who undergo it. And the answers seem to be that many do not undergo these changes without deep rooted emotional or psychological scars. Just spend a few hours getting to know a few combat vets at your local VFW and you can get a good idea of the residual effects of this conditioning.

But, still, there are many people in this world who would say that it is better for a gay person to be made straight, and to have emotional scars from it, than to be allowed to continue being gay. One can easily find anti homosexual rhetoric or doctrine in all three major religions. And one can just as easily find examples of adherents of these religions persecuting homosexuals wantonly and with zeal. Mind numbingly even Christianity, a religion based upon forgiveness, acceptance, and non judgment, has many adherents who do not hesitate to visit unbelievable hatred upon gays. Think Jerry Falwell and his post 9-11 comments, or Fred Phelps and the Westboro Baptist Church. ( I am not inferring that Westboro is indicative of Christians in general, just sourcing an example of extreme intolerance within a much larger community).

Lord Bucket has eloquently, in this thread, expressed his thoughts about human energy and the ways that homosexuality might interact with those energies. And I do respect both Lord Buckets thoughts and posts.

However, I have a less metaphysical thought about this subject. My ideas tend to be rooted in the physical world, as it is the world before me. And in that regard I can see a taboo against homosexuality as something that formed, early on, simply to optimize our species chances for procreation. As civilization progressed, these old taboos stayed first in our oral traditions and then found its way into our religions. In this sense, there is no need to worry about whether or not people can be born gay or not, as all that mattered to us, as a species, was that as many males impregnated as many females as possible, thus ensuring our genetic legacy and survival as a species.

Fast forward some number of thousands of years (Pick anywhere from six to the hundreds of thousands - depending upon source) and we have a situation where old instincts, taboos, and beliefs are totally outdated (I believe the going consensus is that it takes about ten-thousand years for our instincts to catch up with us) and you have what we, in my opinion have today.. A situation where we are instinctively led to try and prevent others from being gay, but have a population level which no longer requires us to worry about it. We have a leftover taboo that no longer serves any real purpose socially.

I do realize that this post goes far and beyond replying to your post and I hope that you'll be patient with my attempt to pile several thoughts into this one post, rather than making several.

~Heff



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