NY Times: Nazis Were Given 'Safe Haven' in U.S., Report Says

I've heard Argentina is purty good at hiding nazis too.

And hasn't it been a generally accepted FACT in the 'conspiracy world'(deemed by those who live in the real world - the irony...it burns) that the US did indeed bring over Nazi scientists? Can I assume that not a lot of people here are surprised by this news?

reply to post by Xcathdra

What do you think the result would be today if we did not act back then?

PersonallyI think we would most likely have a cyrilic alphabet but thats just me. Absent the technological advances that we gained by bringing them here, I don't think we would be having this discussion at all, since it wouldn'y be allowed because we would not have a free press or free speech.

Just because it is 20/20 in hindsight does not mean it was 20/20 when the decision was made.

This is a somewhat strange argument b/c it suggests that both the action of bringing Nazis to the USA was justified in hindsight & that it was a mistake, ie with hindsight things look different. Ho hum...
Anyhoo, the point of this report is not that scientists were recruited; I expect there's few Americans who know anything about the space race for eg that haven't heard of Werner von Braun, its that the USA harbored non-scientist Nazis. Still, for the sake of argument, lets stick with the scientists for a moment.
Did von Braun et al earn their keep? Well, the USSR put the 1st satelite & man into orbit. How about ballistic missiles? Did the USSR fail to develope them for the lack of scientists from Peenemunde? No. Did preventing nuclear physicists from falling into Soviet hands stop the USSR from developing their own A-bomb? No. The reason is very simple: "what 1 man can do, another can do". Did Ford invent the automobile? No, he picked up the idea & ran with it. However, this is all hindsight & I agree that back then it may well have seemed a damn good idea to see just what these scientists could do for the USA, "spoils of war" style, & keep them securely out of Soviet hands.
How about the rest? Were they all intelligence personnel?
(TBC)

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


It goes way deeper than that, according to Jim Marrs, "The Rise of the Fourth Reich".
At the end of WW2 ranking Nazis, used the money from their plundering of Europe (and stored in the Swiss Banks), to create corporate front companies in many countries, worming their way into corporate America.

Who do you think owns America? These very same companies.

The Nazis brought with them, weapons technology and traded that technology for asylum and power within not only America but other countries as well.

"They also brought over and extended their Nazi philosophy based on authoritian premise that the end justifies the means, including unprovoked wars" (now research George W. Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush and his connection with Hitler's Germany).

If you want to see how deep the rabbit hole goes and how deeply the Nazi's philosophies have been embedded within America I would strongly suggest buying and reading Jim Marrs "The Rise of the Fourth Reich", no America may have appeared to win WW2 but our government sold us out to the highest bidder and the Nazi's plundered Europe and with that money bought out our government under the guise of "corporations".

As stated before, our reality, our history and what is currently going on is way more interesting than any science fiction writer could dream up.

Page 211 of "The Rise of the Fourth Reich',

Nixon later told a Senate subcommittee in Washington, "Generally speaking, in spite of the efforts that have been made, at the present time there is a continuation of the dissipation and further concealment of these [Nazi] assets throughout all the neutral countries.

Another Allied investigator, Department of justice attorney James Stewart martin, was sent to U.S. Military Command in London to investigate collaboration between the Nazis and American businessmen. Mark Howard, an official with General Motors. After Martin pointed out the cozy relationship General Motors had with the Nazis, howard was quietly reassigned back to the States.

Martn later investigated the fate of ITT's German chairman Gerhardt Westrick, who, after the war ended, had fled Berlin and hidden out in a castle in southern Germany. After presenting a report on the status of ITT firms to U.S. military authorities, Westrick was given a light prison sentence and released. Martin found that queries concerning General Aniline and Film's connections to I. G. Farben had been referred to Allen Dulles with no results.

We had not been stopped in Germany by German business. We had been stopped in Germany by American business, " Martin wrote in the 1950 book "All Honorable Men. "The forces that stopped us had operated from the United States but had not operated in the open...Whatever it was that had stopped us was not "the government." But it clearly had command of channels through which the government normall operates. The (p211) relative powerlessness of governments in the growing economic power is of course not new... national governments have stood on the sidelines while bigger operators arranged the world's affairs".

And that folks is just the tip of the iceberg.............just the tip.

Put down that remote, that romance novel, that ipod and xbox game control and simply read, do the research, it's all there spelled out in black and white if one simply takes the time.

Prescott Bush's connection with the Nazi's can be found on pages 27, 166, 168, 212, 264 and 283.

A insightful view of the Kennedy assassination can be found on page 228. (He "sought to deny total control to this nexus of globalists, Gibson stated, "president kennedy's commitment to science, technology, and econommic progress had led him to adopt policies that were vehemently attacked by people in and around the Morgan-Rockefeller complex."

..............now research Rockefeller's connection to the Nazi party.

The rabbit hole goes real deep on this one folks, you have no idea. The Rockefellers have just a deep connection, and the lot of them are given mention in Mr. Marrs book.

Knowledge Protects, Ignorance Endangers - “Without self knowledge, without understanding the working and functions of his machine, man cannot be free, he cannot govern himself and he will always remain a slave.” - Gurdjieff

Cameras on every street corner, "fusion centers (research that term) being put up in every state, the disassembly of our Constitution, the piracy of our government has been going on right under our very noses for a long time. All one has to do is research.

Reading one newpaper article is not going to really tell you all what has been going on and everyone should already have been aware of this.

Originally posted by Angelic Resurrection

Originally posted by TheDolphinSings
They wanted the information the Nazi's had been conducting on the AntiGravity Bell Project.

Operation paperclip is kind of common knowledge.
But wether the us govt got any wiser regarding info about the bell is anybody' wild guess.
The german scientists were no fools to claim at the fag end of the war that the bell was kriegs entscheidend,
meaning war decisive.
Good God people, have you the foggiest idea, wha can and was pre empted by that device, which can't be undone now?
Ignorance is sometimes bliss, isn't it

Please explain. I don't think i am getting your context or something, because I don't understand what you are talking about.

(cont from above)
The OP article suggests that the US harbored Nazis were not just scientists or intelligence officers. Still, lets go with a need to find out anything possible about Soviet forces & disposition as justification for bringing some Nazis to the USA.
The USSR had halted its advance into Western Europe when Berlin was captured. They didn't have to wait for Hiroshima & Nagasaki to be warned off continued conquest, but the US Govt knew that the A-bomb was in the pipeline anyway. In reality, the Soviets had lost about 60million people, had much land & major cities devastated, incipient famine, no navy to speak of & an airforce almost exclusively trained in & equipped for ground attack. Remember that the political situation within the USSR was far from stable also & that protracted war had been a major factor in the gaining of support for revolution only about 3 decades earlier. Now, admittedly, the number of Soviet casualties of the war was not yet known, but it was definitely known that they had been hammered. Is it really likely that, given all these factors & particularly that they'd halted their advance, that the USSR would have attempted to conquer Western Europe, thus having to fight the USA also? How on Earth could they have prosecuted a war against the USA? We can be as paranoid as we like about communism, nobody can accuse Stalin of being an idiot.
So, was it necessary to give these Nazis refuge? Or could that same intel have been had by offering them a plea bargain @Nuremburg, the same as other criminals with useful info get? That they may not have cooperated as fully is 1 argument, but there was no pressing need for the intel anyway, & who's to say they wouldn't lie to their former enemies, from spite or to make themselves appear more valuable, even with their comfy new lives? None of this is hindsight, its all stuff that was known to US leaders @the time.
Rather a stark contrast to how the enemies of Uncle Sam are treated these days, eh? Why is that do we think, ATS?

reply to post by I B Dazzlin
I'm ashamed to say that I think we British invented concentration camps during the Boer War, but the argument could be made that the treatment of Native Americans amounted to the same thing.
Although its not in the same league, we definitely invented the quasi-military Boy Scout movement, which is without doubt (having been 1) an insidious method of brainwashing young boys.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

Great insight. I too read Jim Marrs wonderful book a few months ago and found it, as all Marrs's books, completely researched and thoughtful. Unfortunately, we live in an "entertainment addicted" society that hasn't a clue, and is easily misled.

reply to post by I B Dazzlin

The most credible idea of Alois being part jewish is because his mother worked for the Frankenberger family and it is said that a younger unknown member of the family inpregnated her. I don't remeber how the Rothschild family is related to the Frankenberger family but I do remember reading about the relation somewhere.

Thanks. I'm just trying to strain some mud out of the water here.
So what we have is a poor woman who may have been impregnated by an unknown member of a wealthy jewish family, that may be in some way related to the Rothschilds. Neither the Frankenbergers nor the Rothschilds ever acknowledged the offspring (Alois) & didn't help him or his mother @all. Later, when the man died whilst his son (Adolf) was still young, they didn't help that family either. I have to say that, within the context of this debate, such a tenuous possible connection, which had no bearing on Hitler's eventual success, is muddying the water. Unless, of course, we are to believe that, once he became politically active, without any jewish help, they suddenly looked @his rabidly anti-semitic ideas & thought "Great! This is our long lost kinsman who hates our guts. Lets finance him!"
There's no evidence that I'm not related to a Maori chief. If I were to suddenly wade into New Zealand politics with vociferous anti-Maori, or anti-Pakiha (sp?), rhetoric, I expect the world would want more than the legend in our family that I am related to such a person, before drawing any conclusions from that. If you looked @me, you'd doubt it, but who knows? Frankly, who cares? If its true, it hasn't had any bearing on my life whatsoever.
(Well, maybe there's a genetic element, in that the sea-captain's wife in question was probably a slut & I definitely am )
It just annoys me when ATSers start trying to make some wild conjecture outside the grey area...

reply to post by Xcathdra

We can't change the past, and the future is unwritten, which leaves us with the now to make changes and we should make the most of what we can affect now, instead of arguing over something we can't affect.

Of course we cant change the past, but there is a great deal of use in arguing about what went on then, what its consequences were & why it happened. I'm hoping somebody has already made this argument before I read up to wherever this post lands, but just in case they haven't:
If we do not learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.
From your attitude so far, I'm going to guess you dont like communism. I'm not criticising that. However, communists too made their decisions for what they thought were good reasons. Should we not dissect those reasons, their consequences & just exactly we can learn from them? How about Nazis? How about crypto-fascists?

reply to post by wcitizen


There's also good examples of the Vaticans involvement already in nonstream sources, so maybe you're right. They're clearing house now.

Only a few generations ago the release of this sort of material would cause demonstrations in the street. I'd be surprised if much happened nowadays.

I can't believe people could be allowed to get away with it, and as another poster said, they're still around today controlling things. Absolute nuts!

reply to post by new_here


Maybe there's something to that. Wikileaks has started to grow massively, by posting already well known conspiracies in mainstream media of old topics, you could theoretically make people desensitized to these kind of releases.

Wouldn't be hugely surprising, plus you could drown other issues too i guess.

Gotta love the media.

I'm sincerely shocked that so few people (Americans?) seem to know about their own history....

reply to post by Xcathdra


This may not be referencing operation paperclip, which the vast majority of people should know about, there have been enough movies about it

This could in fact be talking about the very real conspiracy whereby hundreds of SS officers vanished overnight in Berlin. Not scientists, hardcore nazi elite.

They just vanished into thin air. Now scientists i can understand, but these were seriously Germany's elite soldiers who disappeared. Bad idea to bring those psychopaths anywhere unless you're up to something no good.

We're all also lead to believe Hitler committed suicide etc.etc. but his body was never found, where is the honest proof Hitler died and wasn't whisked off.

This is a real conspiracy that goes beyond Paperclip.

I would love to see that report.

reply to post by Xcathdra

Who knows why now, other than to givesome members on this site the ability to use another article to show of their hatred and ignornace about the US and Israel being a continuation of a Nazi regime... To be honest im not sure whihc is more rediculous, the MSM media report, or there posts.

Either or, its funny.

Aha! Now we get to the nub of this member's position. If anyone criticises an action taken by Americans, they must have an ulterior motive, other than being critical of the action, regardless of who did it. There's a word for basing one's opinion on unjustified feelings of persecution: paranoia. This follows on from this member's immediately previous post, which was basically an appeal to make it seem reasonable to brush the whole affair under the carpet.
Where is this hate you speak of, Xcathdra? I'll grant that I've read some of what I consider ignorance in this thread, specifically that the USA is a National Socialist country. However, that doesn't mean that there aren't serious leanings towards fascism (which is not the same thing) & also that, since the various organs of the US state operate with a wide degree of independence from each other, that some of them aren't overtly fascist.
Funny you say? Look inside yourself. Why use a word like hate, if you were amused?
No, the word "hate" is an attempt to categorise that which you feel persecuted by as an extreme & thus wrong. "Funny" is an attempt to deceive yourself & us that you are not simply reacting to perceived persecution, but are above such normal human behaviour.
Your countrymen did wrong. Get over it.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


I think this means there is a breaking up process going on between the Zionists and the Vatican. This is not a news by any means. What is news is that it is now being reported by NY times.

reply to post by MrBonzye

was mislead, but I remembered in 'Band of Brothers series' it's not till the second to last episode where they find the concentration camp(s), which was after they captured Berlin.

Yes, & there are no doubt many people who think that "Saving Private Ryan" was an accurate portrayal of D-Day too...
Books written by scholars, my friend. With references so their facts can be checked. That excludes most highschool history books.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


Many see the current US administration's actions as pro-Palestinian/anti-Israel...this report makes it clear that elements of US government (and the Swiss) have a history of serious anti-semetic issues.

reply to post by Iamonlyhuman


This has been known by many for a very long time, I have heard the number is close to 400 Nazi scientist, chemists and SS officers were brought over here to train law enforcement, the military and those who would work to destroy our health through food manipulation and crop manipulation. Operation Papaerclip is what I believe it was called. Von Bruan was to head up the rocket program for NASA, he was the leader of the rocket program for Hitler if I remember correctly.

Yup, only we, individually, can stop this insanity. But most people will turn on the idiot box and watch sports. Just as the Elite want it to be. Pyschological warfare.

reply to post by Bunken Drum


You actually did not get to the nub of my position. My statement about Israel and the US is geared to those members who see nothing other than a vast conspiracy between the 2 nations, and it gets old. In particular my comments were aimed at 2 members of this site who see conspiracy in everything, and not truth in facts if it does not support their position, instead labeling it propoganada.

I have nothing personal against communism either, other than I do not think it works. As far as what would have happened had the US not brought the scientists over is that is a question I brought up for obvious reasons. Had we not snagged some of thed scientitsts, its entirely possible we would not be where we are today in terms of technology. Its possible we would not be here as a nation, as we could have been conquered / destroyed. The possibilities are endless.

As far as non scientists go, there were if I remeber right over 200k german nazis missing after the war, smuggled out by America, Britain, Soviet Union, countries from South America, the Vatican etc etc. I would wager not all of them eneded up here in the States.

The article talks about infomrmation that is not new. I am curious why it was posted at all, aside from the close date of publish and the Nov 15th decision from Heinrich Himmler to send all gypsies to concentration camps.

reply to post by Bunken Drum


Not that I normally go around claiming that 'Hollywood' is historically correct, but 'Band of Brothers' is an exception. It is a historically correct re-telling of 'Easy' company, 506 PIR, 101st Airborne Division's war from training, through D-day to the end of the war. It was meticulously researched using testimony from the veterans- 1st hand evidence- as well as documentation (and photos) from US army and the PRO.

Now, I suppose that its possible that all these documents and photographs could have been forged, and all these veterans could be brainwashed or lying, but I think thats a conspiracy theory too far even for me.......