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The "Normal" Arctic Climate is Now Obsolete

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posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 04:32 PM
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www.scientificamerican.com...



The Arctic Shifts to a New Climate Pattern in Which "Normal" Becomes Obsolet


According to an international team of climate scientists, warming continues to shrink the snow and ice cover that defines the Arctic, signaling the region's shift
By Lauren Morello and ClimateWire October 22, 2010


Warming continues to shrink the snow and ice cover that defines the Arctic, signaling the region's shift to a new climate pattern, scientists said yesterday.

The area covered by sea ice hovered near its historic low this summer. In Greenland, record-high temperatures this year have helped accelerate the melting of the country's massive ice sheet. Throughout the Arctic, permafrost is warming and the blanket of snow is shrinking.

Those changes appear to be long-lasting, said an international team of climate experts who wrote the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration report.

Its blunt headline? "Return to previous Arctic conditions is unlikely."

"The Arctic is a system, and the system is changing," said Don Perovich, a sea ice expert with the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers who worked on the report. "It's not just that sea ice is being reduced. There's changes in Greenland, the atmosphere, the ecosystem, and these changes are affecting human activity."

That includes densely populated areas of the globe that lie outside the Arctic.


It's really frustrating to hear of such irreversible climatic changes, especially when so many people have hopped on the bandwagon of pretending it isn't happening. I'm not normally somebody who's afraid of change... but climate change is one of those terrible global changes that we DON'T want to see happening. What do those of us who care do when the polar caps melt before our eyes? How can the momentum of this train of fossil-fuel based energy economies be stopped in a timely manner? Unfortunately, the media, the public, and the government have hopped on their own train of "let's compromise with industry, take our sweet a** time, wait till somebody else acts first, and not really do much about it until it's too late". As many people have said before... humanity is a terribly immature species in its handling of "civilization" and our planet. It's my contention that this planet is NOT here for us to own or manage, and that instead we are an equal part of the biosphere as any other species, regardless of our great intelligence/curiosity. I hope to see the day when we clean up our act.




posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 04:46 PM
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While we should not go out and actively try to harm the enviroment, climate change is a naturally occurring phenomena. It has happened many times throughout the history of the planet. To think people can change or stop it is pretty arrogant in my opinion.



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 04:56 PM
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You make some very good points - this isn't our planet to own or manage. But, climate change is a natural cycle that has always occured and will continue to occur. Are we speeding things up by our way of life? Possibly - a little bit. Can we alter our way of life sufficiently to slow it down? Not likely.

If the world was prepared to cull 80% of the human population, stop any production or farming of any kind and have the remaining people live a hunter-gatherer existance then we could possibly reduce our effect on the global warming. The earth, however would continue its cycle regardless and we will get another hot period or another ice age, most likely both (no, not at the same time!).



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 05:31 PM
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The climate has never been "normal". It has been changing for billions of years and continues to do so.

The earth has been warming since the peak of the last interglacial dip and "big news" science says it's not even the end of the ice age. It's just a warm period in the interglacial cycle. We're STILL in an ice age that could go on for millions of years.

It's getting hotter? Really? Cave dwelling prehistoric people could have told you that. They could also have told you that the idea that humans could "reverse" global warming was sheer madness but somehow people buy into that insanity too.

There were glaciers all the way into the temperate regions not that long ago and there will be again.

Until then humans just need to learn to adapt to the changing climate instead of living in a fantasy world where they can "reverse" global warming.



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 05:38 PM
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Originally posted by watchitburn
While we should not go out and actively try to harm the enviroment, climate change is a naturally occurring phenomena. It has happened many times throughout the history of the planet. To think people can change or stop it is pretty arrogant in my opinion.


The global warming we are currently experiencing is NOT part of a natural cycle, it is the result of human emissions of greenhouse gases. The consequences of a global rise in temperatures is climate change, which means long-term climate patterns are shifting permanently and mostly to the detriment of ecosystems, species, and humans.

The notion that people are changing the biosphere is not arrogant at all, what's arrogant is the belief that we're somehow NOT changing it, what's arrogant is the stupid idea that somehow we can continue what we're doing without any ill effects. Take your head out of the sand... we're causing some SERIOUS global changes including global warming, mass extinction, the wholesale destruction of rainforests/corals, the acidification/pollution of oceans/waterways, the creation of a massive hole in our ozone, you name it. There are 7 BILLION PEOPLE ON THE PLANET, and I dont think you fully appreciate the MASSIVE and INSANE scale of industrialization's power.



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 05:43 PM
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Originally posted by 3finjo
You make some very good points - this isn't our planet to own or manage. But, climate change is a natural cycle that has always occured and will continue to occur. Are we speeding things up by our way of life? Possibly - a little bit. Can we alter our way of life sufficiently to slow it down? Not likely.

If the world was prepared to cull 80% of the human population, stop any production or farming of any kind and have the remaining people live a hunter-gatherer existance then we could possibly reduce our effect on the global warming. The earth, however would continue its cycle regardless and we will get another hot period or another ice age, most likely both (no, not at the same time!).


No, Climatologists ABSOLUTELY ACCOUNT for natural cycles, climate variability, and global temperatures, and the changes/rises we've seen over the past century are FAR greater than any natural cycle can account for. However, the extreme and rapid rise of atmospheric CO2 can absolutely explain the rise in temps and with elementary atmospheric physics really. JUST BECAUSE IT WASN'T MAN-MADE IN THE PAST DOESN'T MEAN IT ISN'T NOW.

The cold hard reality is that we're living unsustainably... overpopulation is a problem, intensive totalitarian agriculture is a problem, industrialization is a problem... and just because it SUCKS doesn't mean it won't royally screw us (and other species) over. There's nothing protecting us from ourselves (except ourselves) and we seem to want to continue off the cliff's edge believing so insanely that somehow it'll all work itself out, when it actually won't unless we take serious action and scale back our actions, scale back our luxuries which rob the planet of life.



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 05:50 PM
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Originally posted by badgerprints
The climate has never been "normal". It has been changing for billions of years and continues to do so.

The earth has been warming since the peak of the last interglacial dip and "big news" science says it's not even the end of the ice age. It's just a warm period in the interglacial cycle. We're STILL in an ice age that could go on for millions of years.

It's getting hotter? Really? Cave dwelling prehistoric people could have told you that. They could also have told you that the idea that humans could "reverse" global warming was sheer madness but somehow people buy into that insanity too.

There were glaciers all the way into the temperate regions not that long ago and there will be again.

Until then humans just need to learn to adapt to the changing climate instead of living in a fantasy world where they can "reverse" global warming.


Nobody is saying the climate doesn't change!

The point is that we're changing it TOO FAST for ecosystems/species to adapt without facing serious consequences. We're ALREADY causing the planet's Sixth Great Extinction and climate change is adding a serious weight to that already-breaking ecological back.

The Earth is warming MUCH faster than can be explained by the rises since interglacials. This isn't "just a natural warm period", it's anomalous and anthropogenic, ALL the science points to this.... unless you get your science from industry-backed think-tanks and bad science/disinformation. We are NOT in an ice-age, the next ice age will not occur for thousands of years.

It is getting hotter, by 1.5 degrees Celsius, thus far, and rising. Cave dwelling prehistoric people couldn't have told me that because this rapid rise in temperatures has occurred only over the last CENTURY. But if you were to ask modern tribal peoples they would tell you that the weather is quite abnormal an upsets the natural balance. Of course a caveman would think reversing global warming was madness... but he also DIDN'T LIVE IN THE MODERN DAY and with the technologies we use. You're setting up seriously ridiculous arguments I'm not even sure why I'm addressing them...

The only fantasy world people are living in is the fantasy of unlimited resources, use of fossil fuels, and continued prosperity in the face of dwindling finite resources, collapsing ecosystems, and erratic weather causing crop failures. The joyride is going to be over soon.



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 06:00 PM
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I also believe it is natural and I actually welcome it. I think It will bring good changes to the planet. If I'm not mistaken the polar ice caps on mars are also disappearing yeah? Is my car exhaust causing that?



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 06:18 PM
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to welcome this change may be just naive.
Many things are happening to the planet right now.
I dont really see it as a positive adjustment.
the weather patterns are causing mass flooding
volcano eruptions "appear" to be on the rise.
Yes In Greenland some locals are welcoming the change
cause they don't have to live in such a harsh climate
the summers have been warmer and things are growing.
That is good,. but I feel this may be a short lived happy.

Lots of people do not believe in the rise in CO2 levels
But. the facts are there, regardless of why it is happening.
what concerns me is that this is a "natural" cycle..
which also means that if the "cycle" that has been occurring for millions of years
is following it usual path,. the next big change is another ice age..
and you cant really grow crops in the snow




edit on 13-11-2010 by Lil Drummerboy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 06:42 PM
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reply to post by watchitburn
 


It has? Got any proof because you seem to be repeating everything that deniers say.

How would we know if it were a natural cycle anyway?



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 06:46 PM
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The biggest problem is that there are too many people on this rock. And most of us want to keep our modern conveniences. How exactly should we live so we can make a real change? I think we are influencing things on the planet in a very bad way, but our effect on the climate isn't the main cause for what is happening - that is nature, my friend.



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 07:12 PM
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What is the definition of "normal" on the global timescale? And were the humans of 55 million years ago the cause of this event?

Arctic's tropical past uncovered


The core revealed that before 55 million years ago, the surface waters of the Arctic Ocean were ice-free and as warm as 18C (64F).

But the sudden increase in greenhouse gases boosted them to a balmy 24C (75F) and the waters suddenly filled with a tropical algae, Apectodinium.



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 07:22 PM
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reply to post by Lil Drummerboy
 


I may be going out on a limb here, but I believe the earth is raising in frequency and is vibrating at a higher rate. When this happens things get warmer. Plus I hate winter.



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 07:37 PM
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Why is it that studies keep being published concluding that there's actually more ice in the arctic now than there was thousands of years ago?


The new, peer-reviewed study listed below reveals that just about 10 to 12k years ago, the Arctic experienced ice-free summers. In addition, another recent study concluded that most of the last 10,000 years had LESS sea ice in the arctic than at present.

===================

New insights on Arctic Quaternary climate variability from palaeo-records and numerical modelling

Martin Jakobssona, , , Antony Longb, Ólafur Ingólfssonc, Kurt H. Kjærd and Robert F. Spielhagene

a Department of Geological Sciences, Stockholm University, 106 91 Stockholm, Sweden

b Department of Geography, Durham University, Science Site, South Road, Durham DH1 3LE, UK

c Faculty of Earth Sciences, University of Iceland, Is-101 Reykjavik, Iceland

d Centre for GeoGenetics, Natural History Museum, University of Copenhagen, Øster Voldgade 5-7, DK-1350 Copenhagen, Denmark

e Academy of Sciences, Humanities and Literature, Mainz, and Leibniz Institute of Marine Sciences, IFM-GEOMAR, Wischhofstr. 1-3, D-24148 Kiel, Germany
Accepted 26 August 2010.
Available online 2 October 2010.
Abstract

Terrestrial and marine geological archives in the Arctic contain information on environmental change through Quaternary interglacial–glacial cycles. The Arctic Palaeoclimate and its Extremes (APEX) scientific network aims to better understand the magnitude and frequency of past Arctic climate variability, with focus on the “extreme” versus the “normal” conditions of the climate system. One important motivation for studying the amplitude of past natural environmental changes in the Arctic is to better understand the role of this region in a global perspective and provide base-line conditions against which to explore potential future changes in Arctic climate under scenarios of global warming. In this review we identify several areas that are distinct to the present programme and highlight some recent advances presented in this special issue concerning Arctic palaeo-records and natural variability, including spatial and temporal variability of the Greenland Ice Sheet, Arctic Ocean sediment stratigraphy, past ice shelves and marginal marine ice sheets, and the Cenozoic history of Arctic Ocean sea ice in general and Holocene oscillations in sea ice concentrations in particular. The combined sea ice data suggest that the seasonal Arctic sea ice cover was strongly reduced during most of the early Holocene and there appear to have been periods of ice free summers in the central Arctic Ocean. This has important consequences for our understanding of the recent trend of declining sea ice, and calls for further research on causal links between Arctic climate and sea ice.
edit on 13-11-2010 by IamCorrect because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 08:38 PM
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Originally posted by Ferris.Bueller.II
What is the definition of "normal" on the global timescale? And were the humans of 55 million years ago the cause of this event?

Arctic's tropical past uncovered


The core revealed that before 55 million years ago, the surface waters of the Arctic Ocean were ice-free and as warm as 18C (64F).

But the sudden increase in greenhouse gases boosted them to a balmy 24C (75F) and the waters suddenly filled with a tropical algae, Apectodinium.


No... Humans didn't exist 55 million years ago.

ONCE AGAIN, scientists ARE NOT SAYING that all global warming is only caused by humans. That's a stupid stupid straw-man argument. What they're saying is that the RECENT WARMING is attributable to humans and that it's dangerously rapid/steep in temp increases which will negatively (AND unpredictably) affect ecosystems, crops, you name it.



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by NoHierarchy
 


IMO saying that all RECENT global warming is caused by man, is the SAME argument in reverse and makes no sense......

The fact that global warming and cooling has been happening despite us , is pretty clear indication that were not causing the poles to melt......

Do we pollute, of course, should we all do our part to keep the invironment clean of course......should we use this as an excuse to push a man made global warming agenda.....absolutely not...



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 09:34 PM
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omg now instead of people claiming global warming isnt real now we have yes its real but its natural ....So if its natural ask me this before industrial revolution co2 in the atmosphere was a stable 278 ppm. Now its 38% more at 387 ppm. Where has this extra carbon dioxide comes from.....The natural cycle of carbon recyclying which uses carbon sinks to get rid and trap carbon dioxide has been keeping the co2 content on average at 278 ppm for the last million years. There has been a balance of the amount of co2 produced natually and the carbon dioxide taken up by the carbon sinks to give an average of 278 ppm. Now the locked up carbon content that has been stored away has been unlocked by man. So now the planet has extra co2 more than it can deal with. So that extra Co2 is not being absorbed through the carbon sinks and mans destruction of the same carbon sinks also has an affect. Now if people are too dumb to see this that whose fault is that? Reap what you sow people because a major ice age is around the corner and this ice age has nothing to do with the change in orbit around the sun which causes the interglacial iceages. This iceage is due to runaway warming. Dont believe me? Check any temperature graph for the last several million years and see what happens EVERY time theres a sharp rise in warming.
edit on 13/11/2010 by loner007 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 09:44 PM
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Originally posted by loner007
omg now instead of people claiming global warming isnt real now we have yes its real but its natural ....So if its natural ask me this before industrial revolution co2 in the atmosphere was a stable 278 ppm. Now its 38% more at 387 ppm. Where has this extra carbon dioxide comes from.....The natural cycle of carbon recyclying which uses carbon sinks to get rid and trap carbon dioxide has been keeping the co2 content on average at 278 ppm for the last million years. There has been a balance of the amount of co2 produced natually and the carbon dioxide taken up by the carbon sinks to give an average of 278 ppm. Now the locked up carbon content that has been stored away has been unlocked by man. So now the planet has extra co2 more than it can deal with. So that extra Co2 is not being absorbed through the carbon sinks and mans destruction of the same carbon sinks also has an affect. Now if people are too dumb to see this that whose fault is that? Reap what you sow people because a major ice age is around the corner and this ice age has nothing to do with the change in orbit around the sun which causes the interglacial iceages. This iceage is due to runaway warming. Dont believe me? Check any temperature graph for the last several million years and see what happens EVERY time theres a sharp rise in warming.
edit on 13/11/2010 by loner007 because: (no reason given)


What's your definition of "stable"? How many years? Anywhere close to global timeline length?



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 09:51 PM
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Originally posted by loner007
This iceage is due to runaway warming.


LOL!


edit on 13-11-2010 by IamCorrect because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2010 @ 10:29 PM
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Originally posted by NoHierarchy
You're setting up seriously ridiculous arguments I'm not even sure why I'm addressing them...



Not arguments. Just statements.
I don't really need to convince you that you are wrong or I'm right. It's not that important to me how you feel about my point of view.

Once again.
The climate will continue to change with or without our help.
Pinatubo put more greenhouse gasses in the atmosphere in a week than mankind did since the beginning of the industrial revolution. The eruption in Iceland this summer did quite a bit of damage as well. Of course nobody seems to mind that. A few major eruptions either way and that's ok because it's "natural" but, it actually makes mankinds contribution to this warming trend a moot point. The damage has been done.

The funny thing is the people that freak out about it and keep pushing the idea of stopping "Climate change" or "global warming."

It won't happen.

Instead of crying about it and spending time supporting the political agenda to screw the citizens of the developed nations out of trillions in carbon credit fees and carbon taxes in the name of stopping CC or GW they might as well start getting ready for the changes that are coming and deal with it realistically.

China and India will pollute more in the next 30 years than the US and Europe have in the last 200. The only way to stop them would be to shut down their entire economies. There will continue to be volcanic eruptions, methane releases from the seabed, more emissions from the rest of the undeveloped world and continued release of carbon and greenhouse gasses from thawing areas in the northern latitudes. It simply won't stop.

Instead of wasting all of the time and money to do something that won't be successful they might as well start relocating developed coastal population centers and infrastructure inland. Put the money into viable power resources and outlaw the exploitation of the new green religion for the profit of the wealthy.

Green is the new big oil.



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