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Originally posted by FreeMason
The 1967 borders are more possible, but with the Wall going up, very doubtful. And since the settlements are all virtually cities now, it is probably impossible. Israel in affect, is the owner of Gaza and West Bank, the Palestinians will not accept a state of their own as I stated above, when PLO leaders agree on issues, Hamas assassinates them. When leadership in Hamas agrees, other terrorists under the PLO umbrella assassinate them and so on.
The Palestinians are seemingly wanting to become Israeli citizens soon enough, because then they'd dominate Israeli politics and be able to oust Jews.
Since the Jews won't allow that to happen, it is one of 3 things. Either the Palestinians leave the Gaza and West Bank to Egypt and Jordan. They accept where they live right now, and create their own state out of that. Or they are forced into an "Apartheid" state which they virtually are in right now. Israel controls the whole region and the Palestinians are left to just live in the country-side either working for Israelis in the garrison settlements or doing nothing brooding to become terrorists.
As the Wall goes up, Palestinian terrorism will be much more difficult and thus a state of Apartheid will be nearly complete.
Because the Palestinians can never agree on what State to have, it seems very unlikely they will ever get one. Especially since the neighboring Arab states do NOT want a soveriegn Palestine, they just want the Jews gone.
As for other terrorist organizations, like Al Qaeda, they see US support of Israel as a support for anti-Arabism, and thus they want us out of Saudi Arabia and Israel and all that.
Originally posted by FreeMason
Valhall, 1948 borders are too small for Israel, it has a population of 5.4 million Jews and 1.4 million Palestinians, it can not support them with the 1948 borders. Nor can it remove to those borders as all its defenses are built around its current borders.
Also Palestine does not want to become soveriegn. They want to destroy Israel. Many Palestinians might want their own state, but the PLO and its subordinates can never agree on which state that is. When some of the PLO likes the offers, other Palestinian groups assassinate those people. When those groups like the offers, the other groups assassinate them.
Read my other thread on Israel becomming an Apartheid state for a basic understanding of why creating a Palestinian state is nearly impossible now.
Originally posted by FreeMason
The Palestinians are seemingly wanting to become Israeli citizens soon enough, because then they'd dominate Israeli politics and be able to oust Jews.
Since the Jews won't allow that to happen, it is one of 3 things.
Valhall, 1948 borders are too small for Israel, it has a population of 5.4 million Jews and 1.4 million Palestinians, it can not support them with the 1948 borders. Nor can it remove to those borders as all its defenses are built around its current borders.
Also Palestine does not want to become soveriegn. They want to destroy Israel. Many Palestinians might want their own state, but the PLO and its subordinates can never agree on which state that is. When some of the PLO likes the offers, other Palestinian groups assassinate those people. When those groups like the offers, the other groups assassinate them.
Originally posted by Muaddib
Originally posted by FreeMason
The Palestinians are seemingly wanting to become Israeli citizens soon enough, because then they'd dominate Israeli politics and be able to oust Jews.
Since the Jews won't allow that to happen, it is one of 3 things.
That's exactly what Arab Muslims did to the Assyrian Christians that were the native peopel of Iraq (Assyria) in the 630s AD til pretty much today. Its exactly the same they want to do to the Israelis.
Originally posted by Muaddib
That's exactly what Arab Muslims did to the Assyrian Christians that were the native peopel of Iraq (Assyria) in the 630s AD til pretty much today. Its exactly the same they want to do to the Israelis.
Originally posted by Valhall
But because we got away with our misdealings with the Native Americans...that is not the case. Israel is currently not able to say that.
Originally posted by Gazrok
However, as was pointed out, the main problem with a Palestinian state isn't Isreal...it's the Palestinians.... The only Palestinian state they want is land that is all of Isreal, with Jerusalem as it's capital, and guess what? That isn't going to happen.
Now THIS, I agree with. See, this is what the historical record backs as a prediction of the outcome if the U.N. were to push back the border to 1948. And I stick with 1948 because that goes back to the declaration which had backing...but nothing else does. So I stick with 48, not 67 (for now - we can discuss that later maybe).
BUT, what I fear (and this is off in speculation now - but the historical record has backing for this speculation) is that when the U.N. pushed Israel back to the greenlines, the Palestinians would STILL not comply and the terrorism would go on.
Okay, THEN - the whole world should rain down on them like nobody's business. BUT, we have to get to that situation first. We can't sit here and project that that would be the case. We have to attempt reconciliation back to 1948.
I don't care how the Palestinians feel about 1948...and I mean I don't care one bit actually. They had 400 years to declare themselves a nation and didn't do it. It wasn't until after Israel was granted their homeland that all of a sudden being a sovereign nation was their reason for living - get outta town. BUT, we have to get back to that point...and then see what happens.