What Exactly Does Evidence Prove?

If ppl start rumours, just goto the daily news and debunk the rumours with proof from your self- the source (also would work with aliens too). Look at what the celebs do when ppl start rumours.

If aliens gave us room temp. super conducters and new super capacitors that out perform all batterys with a note etched on a new kind of metal explaining them selfs and that they come in peace, then the bad rumours would be gone and there would be proof.

Originally posted by mpeake

This is very true! One might think they are just going insane and dismiss a personal visitation at that. That's why I think that the best way to validify an alien presence is for a massive, perhaps global, debut appearance at one time. When something like that appears on a massive scale, several things will happen. First, you can guaranty hundreds of thousands of video will be capturing the event. Second, it is hard to dismiss millions of eye witness accounts of the same event. Third, it will be forced to make it's way into mainstream media (who generally never address these types of things when they happen single occurences). Fourth, the governemt will obviously make thier announcements that they have everything under control and for us not to panic. Yeah right!

That reminds me of the movie V Saga, with all of the video and interactions between the aliens.

I have so many rumours floating around about me. Its impossible to refute them when no one confronts them to you or even to know what is being said.

Originally posted by muppet

Proof isn't just a sound argument, it's an irrefutable argument.

It's not something subjective and has nothing to do with opinion, or balance of evidence, or anything that can come down to different human interpretations or experiences.

What do you think a sound argument is? Classical logical has a very strict definition of a sound argument -- one that isn't intuitive to many people.

Basically, in a sound argument, the conclusion can never be false:

1. I am a man.
2. All men are mortal.
3. Therefore I am mortal.

An argument is sound whenever its form is valid and its premises are true.

Originally posted by XL5
If ppl start rumours, just goto the daily news and debunk the rumours with proof from your self- the source (also would work with aliens too). Look at what the celebs do when ppl start rumours.

If aliens gave us room temp. super conducters and new super capacitors that out perform all batterys with a note etched on a new kind of metal explaining them selfs and that they come in peace, then the bad rumours would be gone and there would be proof.

Far be it from me to sound mean but are you a child or just a simple minded believer in some type of achievable world peace through pollution reduction and healthy eating? I'm not calling you stupid but you definitely have this strange innocent Gomer Pyle way of explaining how world peace could be achieved that's downright fantastic. By fantastic I mean...fantasy.

I highly doubt improvements will bring about some type of world peace. It didn't 200 years ago. It didn't 100 years ago and it still hasn't. "Peace" is a humanistic concept that simply doesn't make realistic sense. To assume every man, woman and child in the world is interested in never striking another person, never wiping out another race or religion, never stealing, getting high or drunk or never being mentally unstable enough to kill is just ridiculous. Not only that but I fail to see why peace on Earth would make alien disclosure easier...fact is, I believe it would be harder on mankind. Man is on the verge of riot every day. Look what happened to a blind pre-9/11 America lulled into the belief that America was a peaceful place and impervious to outside violence. No technological advancement won't do anything for our belief in aliens.

And in my opinion, EarthSister seems to be really pushing this "What good is evidence?" crap in order to turn the current tide of demands she's been met with recently regarding providing evidence of her outrageous claims. She tends to beat around the bush when asked for proof so she starts threads like this in an attempt to whitewash her claims and to try and change peoples minds on their need for proof. It's just immature.


[edit on 7/1/2004 by Sinobyte]

When I say peace, I don't mean hippy peace. Sure getting drunk/high, mad, striking some one is fine, its freedom. I mean peace between nations, WW2 was justified because we had to take hitler down because he wanted something he didn't have

Let me try it this way:

What if everyone who ever met you for a few minutes to an hour went out into the world and made claims to everyone else about you, until they were all fighting about who was right and who was wrong, who knows best, and if you were even real or not. Some think you are satan and some think you are an angel. Some claim to have your baby and some claim that you abused them. Lots of people saw you in KMart. Some claim you've saved their life and some say you can walk through walls. Some swear to God that you are sneaky and will try to trick everyone into thinking you are nice and ordinary because you are a bogeyman and that is what bogeymen do. Lots of people are afraid you are going to try to force them into slavery because they don't trust the likes of you, and they sure as hell know how slavery works. The leading people vow to protect everyone from you and make intelligence organizations against you. They poise weapons ready to kill you if you show your face. Sure you could be innocent but, man, you sure cause an awful lot of trouble around here. If you can't stop yourself from getting blamed, it must all be true, and if it's not, it's your own fault anyway. If you are not evil and did not do all the things people claim you did, prove it!

Someone gets a picture of you, or is it a fake? Those who think it's a real picture will believe anything the person who took it, says about you. Those who believe it's fake remain wisely, safely skeptical of your existence. Nobody can fool them. Oh you might actually exist somewhere but you might as well be space ice in a plasma vortex merkeba. Only an idiot would assign intelligence to somebody with a reputation like yours.

Now what kind of piece of evidence could you give them to prove anything? Which one person of all of THEM would you give the holy definitive evidence to, that will make everyone else believe what that person said is absolutely correct over everyone else? Why not give some special evidence to just a few of them, or to all of them?

Maybe you could send written messages to them. But they would have to be for all to see to be fair and keep them honest. But how could you make sure they all know that none of them wrote them, that only you could have done it? Maybe you could put them in a unique code that none of them could know. But what if the people copy the designs and make up more new similar designs and claim they are real and make them say things they want to say? Well maybe you could write them with a tool that none of them have, so everyone can see the difference between yours and theirs. You could write a whole history of messages everywhere over a period of time, so lots of people can collect and document them and no certain people could keep them to themselves. Then once you have provided all the silly people everything they need to know about you in the messages, give them all the code.

I just don't think that using this example works for me...I am just a normal guy, so the idea of a bunch of people on earth claim they met me and started fabricating wild stories about me, taking photos and photoshopping them, claiming to have been abused by me or have had my baby just doesn't work cause it's impossible. I don't have the ability to meet that many people and get that reaction.

But, lets say I did have that ability...You better beleive I'd make a massive introduction to the world during a huge gathering of people (say the olympics, or the superbowl, or the world series etc...), being covered by every form of media. In that introduction I'd put to rest all of the untruths all at the same time no matter how long it took. If the people still made thier own fabricated stories about me after that, or just flat out still can't accept my existence, well, I guess those people will end up being the ones who can't accept the truth.

That reminds me of the movie V Saga, with all of the video and interactions between the aliens.

Never saw it...

How many people would not be poor if they didn't have to pay for gas or electricity and the inflated prices of shipped goods due to gas prices. The economy around the world boom after the first years of chaos and world leaders would be "peaceful" for a while, can't say much for terrorists and crazys duh.

No matter what the worlds economy is, there will always be people who still don't have enough. People willing to fight for more, and people willing to fight for what they have already and don;t wanna give up. And yes, there will always be crazy people who don't understand that war and fighting for no cause at all is just wrong. For those few nonspecific reasons, we will never have peace.


[edit on 1-7-2004 by mpeake]

I have to disagree on world peace. As the years go by wars seem to be fewer, and even though we have the tech to cause major damage to a rival, we don't tend to use it.

THe world is getting pretty small do to the internet and online communities.. I've met people from all over the place on the net.. and well occasionaly my back yard.. yay immigration.

It's going to get smaller still as the years go by and technology becomes cheaper.

As far as aliens are concerned if they swooped down with a clean, never ending power source, a way to grow abundant food and the cure to most diseases... I don't think we'd be thrown into a sudden utopia.. but it sure would speed up the peace thing.

To Everyone Posting:

Your posts are exciting, candid, futuristic, expansive and educational, to say the least. As I am reading what you write, I see that you all have absolutely endless developing great ideas and opinions to offer on these subjects. That is probably the reason you are here in these forums at ATS. Do not underestimate the value of sharing your thoughts about these things with others, because doing this is the progression itself of human understanding of other life.

The alien races are well aware of what is going on here because of their methods of evidence, but there is a function and an objective to it all. In fact, the effect on us is the very purpose! The goal is the quality of the evidence at the outcome. Each of the difficulties we are having among ourselves are dissolving through our process of learning about our own position in these issues. Education is a process. Change is a process.

The aliens have been "showing up" at the best possible times, both for individuals and for everybody at once. When everything needed is in place, they will make their great world debut. And that is going to be another beginning to more and new difficulties too.

Sometimes one event can change everything in the span of a blink of an eye, but exactly what everything changes into depends on all the specific things that happen leading up to that event.

That sounds lovely Earthsister, but it's not an answer to anyones post.
I understand that there are quite a lot of posts to reply to, but at least try to keep the discussion alive by responding to at least one of them, and don't post these empty posts that kill the entire discussion.

Originally posted by Jakko
don't post these empty posts that kill the entire discussion.

I wish I had endless time and answers for everyone but all I can do is help. The responsibility is not all on me and I don't have the proof everyone is looking for, not of the aliens and not of my own claims.

The posts here are excellent! I can't answer them all because I don't have all answers and I do not want to control the thread. I started it but it belongs to everybody with a progressive opinion.

It's not abandoned yet and I am still here. Don't expect us to solve the evidence dilemma, but don't give up on it either.

Originally posted by UnusualMe
There are two kinds of proof "personal proof" .. usualy an experiance or the experiance of someone close to you, whom you believe.. without a doubt...

Physical proof...
marks don't count they can be done easily enough
pictures can be duped
crop circles can be duped **

What about an implant made of materials not on earth..or working in a way we can't determine.

Crop circles unexplained ** there are some of these where physical properties of the crop of the area were changed drastically.

It does seem however that even when "proof" is there people still find their own truth anyway... and they still might balk if an alien showed up on their doorstep.

UnusualMe:

You have said it all right here. No matter what we are presented with, everybody or somebody finds a way to turn it around to mean something else. The closest we get to the truth is "unexplained."

We have Roswell, the ultimate cover-up, yet people will still believe whatever they hear about it.

A craft shot down by military in Kecksburg PA, yet all eye witness accounts and all the information that is leaked out about it gets categorized neatly into what people believe still today, which is everything and nothing.

Originally posted by Jakko
Earthsister, as I allready pointed out, your entire way of playing around with the concepts proof and evidence, are misplaced paranoia in my opinion. If these aliens would just show up (together with an excellent translator like yourself) and explain who they are, what they want, where they come from and why they look funny, there would be no problem at all.

Of course some humans would go crazy, of course some would try to make them look bad, of course some will develop sexual desires towards these new lifeforms. Some humans are weird/crazy/mad period.
That's no reason to keep on partly hiding yourself from the world, making the ones who you reveal yourself to look like fools, no offense.

I understand your frustration and it sounds like you understand why more people who have personal experiences don't speak out. Everything happens in time.

What would you do if you were somebody who knows the aliens? Would you keep on helping people get to know and trust their own alien contacts, putting out information and taking risks, or would you keep quiet, or just tell a few people? There is no wrong answer here. I am just wondering.

What about everybody else? Would you risk your good reputation? Risk losing your job? Risk losing your popularity at the club? What if you had a high position in government?

So your question is...would you provide your information freely to everybody you came in contact with or is your question, would you copyright your alien information, try to market it and make excuses why you can't prove any of it?

I guess I'm in the minority here, but if I had a personal experience that was so authentic I couldn't dismiss as insanity, I'd make it my lifes mission to get proof of it. No matter what it took. I mean something as HUGE as that would be something I couldn't just casually talk about in an internet forum. I find it amazing that peole who claim they have had these experiences seem so aloof about it. All they wanna do is chat about it with others. I'd try to break into every gov't facility that had supposed evidence to back me as I could.

yeah i agree


i would be setting up traps as i slept , setting up video cameras outside my home , setting up every conceivable device to catch a bit of proof

strange tho how all these people who get abducted havent actually done anything like that and caught anything on cam yet tho isnt it ?

maybe the aliens have one of those "one 4 all" learning remote controls and turn all the videos off before they enter the house

It just boggles my mind that one would not excercise every last option towards getting proof of thier encounters. Maybe I'll just go around claiming to have undeniable proof of an alien. I'll say that I have one locked in my house in the freezer. I'll post it on every alien website I can find. Then I'll wait for a "disinfo agent" or "MIB" to come to my house to keep me quiet or just kill me, where I'll just knock em out with a bat to the head. Then I'll tie em up and make em listen to Yanni or Michael Bolton or something horrible, till the tell me everything they know.

BTw, Acid, I like your newly morphed avatar!

[edit on 2-7-2004 by mpeake]

EarthSister and her motives bother me. It's obvious she plans to make money from this alien knowledge so my question is...do we believe those who sound crazy and don't want to make money or believe those that sound crazy that are planning on making money?

Let's not believe anything untill we see some hardcore proof.
I didn't truly believe in the christian God either, before I saw hardcore proof. Ask and ye shall receive.
Maybe this does not apply to Earthsister and her friends, consisting of light.

there are too many people in the "know" about aliens and they all have different stories - some want to kill us , some want to save us , some want our planet , some want to help us etc etc

only 1 story is correct - that means either

aliens are bull#ting people or people are bull#ting people

hmmmm