Proof is coming globally, but for now, personal proof means personal experience.

Material and circumstantial evidence of visiting alien life is all over our planet, but the problem is, What does evidence prove to you? The answer is in what it only can prove, and that relies directly on you and each and every other person individually.

Even when you come by your own proof that the aliens are here- for instance, when you witness an obvious alien space craft or meet an obvious alien being, that still does not define for you any of all the material evidence or witness testimony across the world. It does not give you any personal idea of what the aliens are like or why they are here.

The most natural assumptions are not too pretty and the more you see of evidence, they more that might prove to you that your fears are founded. You may not know that public evidence is defaced and misrepresented, and a great deal of what you see is hoaxed. All stories are exaggerated and refabricated in every telling by others-- nice ones become angelic and scary ones become demonic. That is just what people often do with stories.

Why don't the aliens give evidence of themselves to individuals to show others to prove their claims?

If an alien experiencer had on their person a piece of material evidence to show you, it would not prove anything he said, and it shouldn't, or else you, as well as all humans, could and would be equally as swayed by any other person's piece of evidence to what they claim, which may or may not be to the contrary of what others claim. The more professionally invested a party appears to be to you, the more likely you would be to believe them over an ordinary individual.

Even among all the most apparently sincere, trustworthy humans who have personal experiences, the stories and opinions and claims and perceptions are naturally diverse. Besides, all the different people learn entirely different things from their different experiences with different races of alien life.

No piece of evidence could prove anyone to be "the one who is right" or "the one who knows everything." Many people are accurate about specific important facts and understandings about the aliens and not accurate or not knowing about other things about the aliens. If they each had some personal evidence to show, that would only suggest to you that they could have stolen it from the other people who say they know the real truth. Ask yourself, what can any human "really know" about a subject that is so far beyond the ceiling of their own evolution that he could be any authority to prove it?

If an experiencer had evidence to show you, all focus and attention would become the evidence, neglecting his knowledge, and undermining and disregarding all other valuable information that other experiencers have to share as well. He would also be on secret watch for his potential threat to national security. Any suspected "actual" evidence ever produced by an individual is "investigated" (confiscated) by secret agents of government authority, to be used deviously to prove something against the aliens' unholy character and against the individual's as well. If the susptected evidence is silly, it is allowed to stand as supportive disinformation. Thus, evidence makes the person who has it, a target in the defense against it.

Any everyday intelligent open-minded lay person can look for themselves at an alien experiencer and just listen to what he has to say to "know without a doubt what a kook looks like." He might even "believe in alien life" but since the person making claims is merely an ordinary person (duh), no "great aliens" would ever come down just to visit "him" or give "him" great information. "Who does he think he is anyway -- Jesus, Einstein and Bill Gates? Lots of people believe in God too but everybody decent knows that only kooks go around claiming to see God!" So any evidence he claims to have must be fake, and no facts the experiencer shares about such important beings could ever possibly be true. "Never forget what a kook looks like." Hahaha

So instead, Folks, real alien experiencers are left evidenceless and free to speak, which is what is meant for them to be, and what they do best.

Earth's visiting races are tightly controling the evidence they leave us of themselves. This is to protect the truth about themselves, and to prevent how the evidence can be used to prove other things to humans instead. Everything we see of the aliens is by design for the benefit of the effect of education on our race.

Think about it this way:

A few secret groups of people are plotting to use your fingerprints to frame you for the crime that you are about to expose them to the world for committing. What could you do?

What do you think about all this?

PLEASE NOTE: If you have no interest or are unwilling to consider the reality of alien life even hypothetically, please post in the "there are no aliens and you are a psycho liar" threads. In this thread, let's hear what people seriously think about the aliens and how the subject is affecting our world.

[edit on 29-6-2004 by EarthSister]

What do you mean by "proof is coming globally"?

Where is your evidence?

Evidence doesn't prove anything. At all. Nothing. Why? Because proof isn't evidence, and evidence isn't proof.

A proof is a sound valid argument.

Evidence is just something that convinces. For an example, a mathematician has a proof. A lawyer has evidence.

As a tradition even the hypothetical threads on this forum will end up in "where's the proof aliens exist". If the 'proof' really comes out at least then we can get rid of that trend.

If an experiencer had evidence to show you, all focus and attention would become the evidence, neglecting his knowledge, and undermining and disregarding all other valuable information that other experiencers have to share as well.

I can't speak for anyone else, but if an "experiencer" had "evidence" then I would be much interested and open to beleiving what he or she had to say and thier knowledge, than if there were no evidence at all. I would consequently be more open to others experiences as well (even if the evidence that I have seen contradicts others experiences or not). As of now I am not a believer becuase there has been no evidence to support stories and claims that I have read. I know that this contradicts the whole purpose of this thread but you mentioned before about the thoughts and opinions of the average non-experiencer/non-beleiver. I feel I fit in that catagory. You show me evidence and you have one more beleiver in your camp.

In my opinion evidence isn't needed if one presents their "proof" as speculation instead of declaration. Instead, as is the norm on ATS, all types of "believers" flock to this board to unload every little bullcrap theory they read or pseudo-spiritual belief as FACT, when in fact...it's nothing more than heresay and overactive imagination.

I believe in the possibility of alien life elsewhere in the universe. I also believe in the UFO phenomenon. I am not, however, convinced that ex-flower children can communicate with aliens psychically. Nor do I believe any of the amateur translations & transliterations of self-styled "archaeologists" and "researchers".

Evidence to me is an important part of furthering my belief's. I can accept alien life and UFO's...but I'm going to need more than the word of Billy Meier, EarthSister and the 72 other shameful fringe speakers and theorists clogging the UFO community with their crazy crap.

Here's my question...what excuse will EarthSister and the rest of the fringers use when aliens don't come or no solid evidence is presented in the next 40 years? Will they use the old "government blame game" or will they insist the human race "isn't ready to see the truth"?

Originally posted by radardog
A proof is a sound valid argument.

Proof isn't just a sound argument, it's an irrefutable argument.

It's not something subjective and has nothing to do with opinion, or balance of evidence, or anything that can come down to different human interpretations or experiences.

So if the aliens gave some one a free energy device or anti-grav device and it was easy to use, wouldn't that be proof enough. Also, if the aliens wanted to give proof, all they would have to do is start getting food from the drive through lol.

Maybe they should give ppl some alien metal along with an abducted lawyer.

Yes I think aliens are real and I would like to see what tech they have, but that won't happen till we are ready and we won't be ready till we all know they are here and we have peace.

Yes I think aliens are real and I would like to see what tech they have, but that won't happen till we are ready and we won't be ready till we all know they are here and we have peace.

No offense, but this is the type of ideology that would turn someone like me off to the whole subject. There will never be peace as long as there is free will. The only way there will be no free will is if a higher power took that away. To me, saying that we won't see aliens till we have peace is just a cop out. Peace will never happen, so aliens will never reveal themselves, is all I hear in that statement.

I meant it to say, if we get free energy and A-B transport, we will know they are here AND we will be free of oil and alot of restrictions and it "could" bring peace. It could also make the terrorists plots work out sooner and with greater power, then there would be peace.

As long as we are all fighting over oil and other ppls stuff and the true treasures are not given to every one, there will always be fighting. Well untill the novelty wears off and ppl find some other reason to fight.

As long as we are all fighting over oil and other ppls stuff and the true treasures are not given to every one, there will always be fighting. Well untill the novelty wears off and ppl find some other reason to fight.

Very true! If it's not oil, it will be something else in the future. I'd like to think that something as phenomonal as a massive alien presence would shake things up enough to revamp our look on war and peace, but I would think that there would be enough ignorrant people, too afraid of change (and I can't think of a bigger change that this) to allow an intervention for peace like that.

As for myself, I don't believe, but I can't wait till they get here. If that even makes sense

Just topoint out the obvious...maybe aliens dont give proof of themselves because....they dont want anyone to know? Its the same reason you put fake seaweed in fishtanks...you want to make the fish think they are actually in the ocean...

Just topoint out the obvious...maybe aliens dont give proof of themselves because....they dont want anyone to know? Its the same reason you put fake seaweed in fishtanks...you want to make the fish think they are actually in the ocean...

hmmmm....I think I saw this in a movie...could it be....THE MATRIX?

Originally posted by XL5
I meant it to say, if we get free energy and A-B transport, we will know they are here AND we will be free of oil and alot of restrictions and it "could" bring peace. It could also make the terrorists plots work out sooner and with greater power, then there would be peace.

I'm sorry, but could you please explain that last sentence again?

There are two kinds of proof "personal proof" .. usualy an experiance or the experiance of someone close to you, whom you believe.. without a doubt...

Physical proof...
marks don't count they can be done easily enough
pictures can be duped
crop circles can be duped **

What about an implant made of materials not on earth..or working in a way we can't determine.

Crop circles unexplained ** there are some of these where physical properties of the crop of the area were changed drastically.

It does seem however that even when "proof" is there people still find their own truth anyway... and they still might balk if an alien showed up on their doorstep.

It does seem however that even when "proof" is there people still find their own truth anyway... and they still might balk if an alien showed up on their doorstep.

This is very true! One might think they are just going insane and dismiss a personal visitation at that. That's why I think that the best way to validify an alien presence is for a massive, perhaps global, debut appearance at one time. When something like that appears on a massive scale, several things will happen. First, you can guaranty hundreds of thousands of video will be capturing the event. Second, it is hard to dismiss millions of eye witness accounts of the same event. Third, it will be forced to make it's way into mainstream media (who generally never address these types of things when they happen single occurences). Fourth, the governemt will obviously make thier announcements that they have everything under control and for us not to panic. Yeah right!

To explain it more clearly: A-B transport-teleporters, worm holes, personal supersonic travel working on free energy that every one can freely use with a device (no fuel). Devices like those would make UFO's and aliens alot more believeable to every one who has any hope that we aren't alone. Gas would become like an outdated classic movie that you watch just for the memory and joy of it even if it is very outdated.

If you wanted to cause lots of terror, you could just send lots of terrorists and some nukes and free energy devices that can be set to go into critical feeback (energy bombs) to any location real fast. The peace part comes after assured destruction, when all the bombs have been slung around and spent, kinda like a food fight when all the foods on the other guys.

To explain it more clearly: A-B transport-teleporters, worm holes, personal supersonic travel working on free energy that every one can freely use with a device (no fuel). Devices like those would make UFO's and aliens alot more believeable to every one who has any hope that we aren't alone.

We don't have to show everyone that it is possible to do this and that to proove that aliens exist, or make them more believeable. Scientists have already stable theories on that they actually can be out there. The only "problem" we really have left, is the question if it is possible that they might come to our planet. What remainst, as said, is how they travel. I myself think they use some kind of gate technology, or a wormhole of sorts...

Gas would become like an outdated classic movie that you watch just for the memory and joy of it even if it is very outdated.

Well, if we keep today's politics, the oil business will go on for some very good time. Pollution? Bah, leave it to the scientists - that's the profiter's thought.

Though, one day, there won't be any oil left...

Earthsister, as I allready pointed out, your entire way of playing around with the concepts proof and evidence, are misplaced paranoia in my opinion. If these aliens would just show up (together with an excellent translator like yourself) and explain who they are, what they want, where they come from and why they look funny, there would be no problem at all.

Of course some humans would go crazy, of course some would try to make them look bad, of course some will develop sexual desires towards these new lifeforms. Some humans are weird/crazy/mad period.
That's no reason to keep on partly hiding yourself from the world, making the ones who you reveal yourself to look like fools, no offense.

[edit on 30-6-2004 by Jakko]

Originally posted by mpeake

I can't speak for anyone else, but if an "experiencer" had "evidence" then I would be much interested and open to beleiving what he or she had to say and thier knowledge, than if there were no evidence at all. I would consequently be more open to others experiences as well (even if the evidence that I have seen contradicts others experiences or not). As of now I am not a believer becuase there has been no evidence to support stories and claims that I have read.

Let me try it this way:

What if everyone who ever met you for a few minutes to an hour went out into the world and made claims to everyone else about you, until they were all fighting about who was right and who was wrong, who knows best, and if you were even real or not. Some think you are satan and some think you are an angel. Some claim to have your baby and some claim that you abused them. Lots of people saw you in KMart. Some claim you've saved their life and some say you can walk through walls. Some swear to God that you are sneaky and will try to trick everyone into thinking you are nice and ordinary because you are a bogeyman and that is what bogeymen do. Lots of people are afraid you are going to try to force them into slavery because they don't trust the likes of you, and they sure as hell know how slavery works. The leading people vow to protect everyone from you and make intelligence organizations against you. They poise weapons ready to kill you if you show your face. Sure you could be innocent but, man, you sure cause an awful lot of trouble around here. If you can't stop yourself from getting blamed, it must all be true, and if it's not, it's your own fault anyway. If you are not evil and did not do all the things people claim you did, prove it!

Someone gets a picture of you, or is it a fake? Those who think it's a real picture will believe anything the person who took it, says about you. Those who believe it's fake remain wisely, safely skeptical of your existence. Nobody can fool them. Oh you might actually exist somewhere but you might as well be space ice in a plasma vortex merkeba. Only an idiot would assign intelligence to somebody with a reputation like yours.

Now what kind of piece of evidence could you give them to prove anything? Which one person of all of THEM would you give the holy definitive evidence to, that will make everyone else believe what that person said is absolutely correct over everyone else? Why not give some special evidence to just a few of them, or to all of them?

Maybe you could send written messages to them. But they would have to be for all to see to be fair and keep them honest. But how could you make sure they all know that none of them wrote them, that only you could have done it? Maybe you could put them in a unique code that none of them could know. But what if the people copy the designs and make up more new similar designs and claim they are real and make them say things they want to say? Well maybe you could write them with a tool that none of them have, so everyone can see the difference between yours and theirs. You could write a whole history of messages everywhere over a period of time, so lots of people can collect and document them and no certain people could keep them to themselves. Then once you have provided all the silly people everything they need to know about you in the messages, give them all the code.