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Did Major Rick Gibney Shoot Down Flight 93 on 9/11?

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posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 05:17 PM
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Flight 93 Shot Down

Is the Rick Gibney Flight 93 Story a Hoax?

I have long thought that Flight 93 might have been shot down. I have heard the following, which I am not sure are factual or not.

1. Debris from Flight 93 was found eight miles from the crash site, and one of the engines was found five miles from the crash site.

2. All cell phone conversations from Flight 93 terminated six seconds before the time of impact as determined by seismographs.

3. An unmarked, white military aircraft was seen in the area at the time of the crash by several witnesses.

Is it plausible that Flight 93 was shot down? Or is this just a wild conspiracy theory? Enquiring conspiracy theorists want to know.




posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 05:30 PM
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JMO, but no, I don't think it was shot down. I believe the official story that Todd Beamer & Co. stormed the cockpit, distracting the hijackers (who were horrible pilots to begin with) just enough so they couldn't recover once the plane started losing altitude.

Even if it was shot down, I doubt seriously an unmarked craft would have fired the missle. It would have been a standard USAF craft.

There ARE some things out there that jibe with the official report. I think this is one of those cases.



posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 05:37 PM
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Ive always though that this might have been the case. Flight 93 went down in a pretty unoccupied area if it was going to be shot down it was a good area to do it. Also making the people of 93 seem like heros instead of people that just got shot down would be a good PR coverup. I have no evidence of this but its just my theory. I would like to see a timetable of when they knew they were terrorist attacks too the time that 93 went down. And compare them to response time to scramble planes and intercept time from the closest airfields to see if it was even possible



posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 05:39 PM
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There's a ton of links on this theory, it's a hard call - I think it could have been shot down while the passengers fought for control.

www.freedomfiles.org...
www.worldnetdaily.com...
www.flight93crash.com...

I must say though, it was amazing to watch the airspace getting cleared (except for Bin Laden Airlines - ahhhh, another speculation).



posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 06:33 PM
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I posted about this a couple of days ago..... but Banshee locked it up.
Good Luck.
Respects



posted on Jun, 29 2004 @ 06:46 PM
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Originally posted by ShadowXIX
Also making the people of 93 seem like heros instead of people that just got shot down would be a good PR coverup.


Wasent there a report of the plane trailing smoke before it was shot down? I agree the PR value of this is huge (not to downplay the efforts of the passangers). Also, it made for a better story that just shooting it down. Im not saying we did but there are alot of unanswered questions.



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 12:02 PM
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Originally posted by 1amc
I posted about this a couple of days ago..... but Banshee locked it up.
Good Luck.
Respects


Well, so far the thread is still here. What is up with locking and archiving any post related to 9/11? Don't the moderators want 9/11 to be discussed on ATS?



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 12:48 PM
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If it was shot down on purpose, then people can speculate as much as they like, because it will never be disclosed if it was. The subject is to sensitive.



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 01:00 PM
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What is up with locking and archiving any post related to 9/11? Don't the moderators want 9/11 to be discussed on ATS?


Every single aspect of 9/11 has been discussed on ATS. I'm not kidding. Every possible topic, including this one has been dicussed on these very forums. So why lock up the new ones? Well, it's obviously nothing personal, BUT when you have the same threads popping up over and over again it becomes very annoying to people.

This is a discussion forum. People post their ideas and then come together and reach conclusions. When that's been done a few times and someone comes and starts the whole thing over again from the top it can be frustrating.

So what's the solution? Do a search. If you search for things using the new ATS search engine you'll find the threads that have already been opened on the board. You can then read what's already been talked about, people's ideas on the matter etc. You'll find many fascinating things about the topics that interest you.

So really, don't take it personally when a moderator does that, it's nothing directed at you, it's just to keep things organized and moving. Trust me, try the search, I use it all the time.



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 02:16 PM
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Djarums, I did a search, and the only threads which mention Rick Gibney are this thread and 1amc's thread, which he mentions above. This is new information. If this thread is transferred to the Forum Index, how many people do you think will ever see it?



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 02:29 PM
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Originally posted by muckminer
There's a ton of links on this theory, it's a hard call - I think it could have been shot down while the passengers fought for control.

It's sad, but that's been my theory......

I wonder though if they took full control of the plane before it was shot down



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 03:10 PM
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Well, both links seem tainted to me due to obvious bias against the Bush administration. Is there anything on this from a less agenda-driven source?

Both scenarios are believable and I wouldn't fault anyone for shooting the plane down as a defensive measure. Either way, those poor folks on those planes were doomed from the moment they bought decided to fly that day. Shot down or crashed, nothing was going to save them by then anyway, unfortunately.

I used to daydream a lot right after 9/11 about how it could have been if someone had been able to pull off landing that thing. Captured hijackers and living American heroes. That would have been pretty wonderful.



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 03:22 PM
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Oh ok, I was just referring to the statement in general. I can totally understand why to someone who just signed up it might look like the moderators are shutting threads down for no reason. That was what my explanation was relating to.

As for this whole Gibney thing... I think it would get more attention if it were true. I find it odd that the website that is the source of this theory offers not the tiniest shred of evidence for its claim.


LetsRoll has discovered the name of the pilot as well as all other pertinent information regarding this incident


Now... usually a statement such as this would be backed up with evidence. It is not. The mere mention that this pilot has been given awards for his performance proves nothing.


I apologize for having to print your name, but felt it neccessary for both the truth to come forward, and your own safety.


This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. Let us assume for a moment that this unnamed source is correct and this pilot shot down an airliner with hundreds of American civilians on board. It's then the proper thing to do to publicly release the name of a soldier who did something that will infuriate millions of people? Following orders or not, the guy would get crucified. "I was just following orders" has NEVER worked as an excuse. The moron who wrote that article would be threatening the safety of the pilot and his family if this were true.

From reviewing the site I see someone with a lot of ideas that I agree wholeheartedly deserve investigation and attention but I believe that the person has not been responsible in his efforts and has caused far more harm than good.


Major Rick Gibney..."Lets Roll"
"Lets Roll Major Rick!"


Using a term that has a lot of meaning to support a baseless smear campaign is disgraceful. If I were Phil Jayhan I would apologize to society in general for irresponsibly risking a man's life and for making VERY serious allegations with no proof other than "we heard". Unacceptable.

Edited for punctuation.

[edit on 6-30-2004 by Djarums]



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 04:13 PM
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IMHO I also think that they shot it down and fabricated the whole storming the cockpit thing. Abovetopsecret is host to a lot of shall we say "far out there" theories, but this one is actually one that makes sense. Me and some friends of mine who are in the navy who have absolutely no feeling about Bush or conspiracies etc all agreed that if some planes have crashed into your countries' buildings and another is off course and not responding, then they really didn't have much choice to shoot it down. If you really think about it, if you were commanding the military and you've lost civilian buildings and everyone is panicking etc, and this plane isnt responding and looks like its gonna hit something else, all you can really do is shoot it down for "the greater good". Saying the the passengers stormed the cockpit is just a way to keep the relatives happy, and I can honestly say that this is probably the best thing to do for all concerned. What good would bringing the truth out actually have? This way a lot more casulties were averted and the passengers went out as heroes.

Of course it is conceivable that the US didnt know about this plane at all or didnt get jets scrambled in time and the passengers did in fact wrestle with the terrorists, but we'll never know. Just let it lie that they went out as heroes either way, and find something else to talk about


[edit on 30-6-2004 by slick]



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 04:19 PM
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Then how do you explain the cell phone transmissions from Todd Beamer? Were they a fake? His wife didn't seem to think so. Not EVERYTHING is a conspiracy. This is one case where I happen to believe the official version. Certainly, you are free to believe what you choose.

Personally, I think the level of confusion within our defense agencies was so acute that day, they probably couldn't have even found Flt. 93.



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 04:24 PM
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The answer is, yes it was shot down.

But the persons on board were also heros.

They did try and take back the plane, and by the evidence, they succeeded, but by the time they took it back, an airforce jet was already on thier ass with orders to take it out, and thus, in the end, they failed.



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by Skadi_the_Evil_Elf
The answer is, yes it was shot down.

But the persons on board were also heros.

They did try and take back the plane, and by the evidence, they succeeded, but by the time they took it back, an airforce jet was already on thier ass with orders to take it out, and thus, in the end, they failed.


Just to stick my oar in I'm with Skadi on this.

It was politically impossible to admit it but militarily it made perfect sense.

Didn't Cheney give an order to shoot planes down ?

This was what? about an hour after the first plane hit the WTC.Planes were reported in the area and they thought it was headed for the White House they shot it down.



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 04:32 PM
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Do you have a link for a transcript of those conversations, would like to take a look at them again.

>Not EVERYTHING is a conspiracy. This is one case where I happen to believe the official version. Certainly, you are free to believe what you choose.

Im not the sort of person who thinks everything is a conspiracy, if you look at the position the US government were faced with at the time and put yourself in their shoes, it is the most probable decision they would make. I know this site can be host to a lot of Bush-bashing US-coverupeverything people, and I love reading about it, but I think in this case the idea that shooting a plane down to thwart the potential threat and then letting the victims go out as heroes is quite plausible. I have no way, of course, to prove that it happened, but even if it didn't I still think it is something which the US' defence would sanction, and most other governements would around the world. Again this is not US bashing, it is a horrific thing to have to do, but one which I think is completely possible and likely.

>Personally, I think the level of confusion within our defense agencies was so acute that day, they probably couldn't have even found Flt. 93.

Yep well no doubt it was hectic out there, and this is equally as plausible, like I said. I think the point im making is that the if the US government did find the plane and deem it a threat, it would be shot down and covered up, as this is the only course of action they could really take. And I guess Im also saying that while (obviously) this is horrible for the people on the plane and the relatives, most countries faced with this situation would have no choice but to do the same.

[edit on 30-6-2004 by slick]



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 04:47 PM
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Youre right about the politics, JB.

How would the public reacted, knowing that the would be heros had sucessfully comandeered the plane back, and the US airforce shot it down when they could have been saved. Militarily, were not sure if they knew the jet had been commandeered back by the passengers, we can assume by the offical story, more than likely, the pilot had no clue, thought it was still terrorist owned, and shot it down.

the public would have gotten pissy and people wouldnt have understood.

Of course, theres conspiracy theories even within this, but i wont go into it.

needless to say, the passengers on flight 93 retook the plane, even had a passenger pilot on board, and almost succeeded, but after what had already happened in DC and NYC, it was too late, thier fate was sealed, and the incompetant corrupt govornment that had allowed 3 other planes to hit thier targets, finally took action.....on the wrong jet.



posted on Jun, 30 2004 @ 06:23 PM
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Flight 93 was a tragedy no matter what happened. I recorded the audio from the North Dakota "patriot day" ceremony in which the Happy Hooligan's citations were announced, and worked on the governor's speech with reverse speech. Unfortunately, the only clue about what actually happened was the word/concept "downblast". This is suspicious, but is not enough to form a conclusion.

One thing was clear, though. The governor clearly felt that something about the citations was a lie, and he definitely felt the men should not be receiving an award. He did not speak about the individuals other than to say their names, and there was nothing special when I reversed them.

Wish there was more, but fishing expeditions don't always yield the prize.



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