Was NOT an Airplane (as per General)

Originally posted by FireMoon
A clouds albedo can vary from less than 10% to more than 90% hard to know the albedo of the supposed plane as they have different paint jobs and often don't actually have that much bare aluminium surfaces. I believe bare aluminium has an albedo of around 75%. So the answer is yes, there are times when clouds can be more reflective than aluminium.

thanks for that info
star for you

reply to post by boondock-saint

San Diego upper air soundings at 00Z November 9 (4:00 PM 11/8 local time)
weather.uwyo.edu...

reply to post by boondock-saint


boon, your USAir 737 photo didn't come up, so not sure which paint scheme you have there.

But, look at the NEWEST USAir scheme, and this on the correct airplane, a 757:



The mostly white upper fuselage is the look that they are going for. The older was a Dark blue/dark gray combination (similar, but reversed, to United's old scheme). United had an interim design, you can see them around, white on top, blue below (in anticipation of the merger with USAir, that never happened).

NOW, with the Continental/United merger, the white on top/gold stripe/light gray below that is Continental's will become United's as well, along with the CAL gold world stylized tail logo.

reply to post by weedwhacker

brother I have no idea
what US808 looks like
on the custom paint job.
I just pointed out that it is
possible that the plane
could be less reflective
than the clouds and the trail.
Only because Phage brought
into this argument that clouds
were less reflective than aluminum.

Originally posted by FireMoon
reply to post by Phage

 

A clouds albedo can vary from less than 10% to more than 90% hard to know the albedo of the supposed plane as they have different paint jobs and often don't actually have that much bare aluminium surfaces. I believe bare aluminium has an albedo of around 75%. So the answer is yes, there are times when clouds can be more reflective than aluminium.

Clouds do not produce specular reflections. Painted or polished aluminum does.

Originally posted by Phage
Clouds do not produce specular reflections. Painted or polished aluminum does.

on a totally flat surface you have a valid point,
however a plane's underbelly fuselage is
nowhere near flat and it nowhere resembles
that light/reflection or heat source which
I posted in my diagram which is almost totally
round like the exhaust port of a rocket.
And it cannot be the sun's reflection on the
cockpit as the sun is setting directly behind
the aircraft not in front.

Phage I have had fun in this debate with ya
but I have to go out for a while, personal
business. Later gator

Originally posted by Phage

Originally posted by FireMoon
reply to post by Phage

 

A clouds albedo can vary from less than 10% to more than 90% hard to know the albedo of the supposed plane as they have different paint jobs and often don't actually have that much bare aluminium surfaces. I believe bare aluminium has an albedo of around 75%. So the answer is yes, there are times when clouds can be more reflective than aluminium.

Clouds do not produce specular reflections. Painted or polished aluminum does.

Really now?

reply to post by FireMoon

Really now?

I do not see specular reflection occurring in those clouds.

Specular reflection is distinct from diffuse reflection, where incoming light is reflected in a broad range of directions. An example of the distinction between specular and diffuse reflection would be glossy and matte paints. Matte paints have almost exclusively diffuse reflection, while glossy paints have also a fraction (not great, however) of specular reflection. A surface built from a non-absorbing powder, such as plaster, can be a nearly perfect diffuser. On the opposite side, polished metallic objects can reflect specularly light very efficiently (the reflecting material of mirrors is aluminum or silver).

en.wikipedia.org...

Originally posted by zorgon
Well as long as NORAD is telling me "It's not a missile" I will take their word for it. If THEY are lying then we are doomed anyway and we might as well learn to speak CHINESE

I was right there with you and Phage on this being a plane. then I remembered the news. Since you put so much faith in NORAD, don't you think that for a day and a half they might have referenced a radar tower with ATC and found out it was a plane instead of claiming they didn't know what it was and then do an inventory of all missiles? I am sorry, but this stinks for several reasons. that being the most stinky in my humble opinion.

sorry Zorgon, I hate to go against you and Phage, it is a recipe for disaster 99.9% of the time.

reply to post by boondock-saint

or shall we take this to the debate forum ?

One would have to
structure their paragraphs
a bit better than this
if they wanted to be
taken seriously in a
debate.

reply to post by network dude

....NORAD, don't you think that for a day and a half they might have referenced a radar tower with ATC and found out it was a plane instead of claiming they didn't know....

You need to understand why they will pull the tapes, of radar and ATC communications.

Not just because of a "request". Only for a good reason. An accident/incident, or anything that could be considered safety-related.

AND, think about this: WHO at NORAD would put their butt on the line, and invite ridicule, when THEY knew there were no anomalous aircraft of any kind in the area? Certainly NORAD isn't going to release their own records, for they'd be risking revealing some secrets. So, only other sources would be civilian, through FAA...which I explained in the beginning is not as practical as some seem to think.....

Originally posted by network dude
sorry Zorgon, I hate to go against you and Phage, it is a recipe for disaster 99.9% of the time.

Since Phage and I are working from opposite sides of the fence where does that leave you?

As Weedwacker already mentioned.. NORAD is not about to release there records to prove it was nothing,b because they track EVERYTHING including the secret stuff... and NORAD is generally not giving out press releases to the public... unless its a Santa sighting

I totally agree that the government has made a BIG mistake... they did not take this seriously enough and I doubt they had any idea that it would go this far (4 days later)... what is really funny in all this... is that main stream media, who everyone at ATS accuses of working for the Government... is actually taking the Conspiracy stance this time...

So either they are now on our side... or CTer's are being set up big time.

It also surprises me that so many at ATS do not understand or recognize perspective or what real rocket launches act like. The fact of the ABC photos shows no exhaust plume of the 'rocket' any time after the trail first breaks up, yet it continues to 'climb' and as it is now dark in earths shadow... where is the glowing flame of the rocket engine? Did they switch to anti-gravity drive?

reply to post by zorgon


Actually, I stopped being surprised by.....

It also surprises me that so many at ATS do not understand or recognize perspective or what real rocket launches act like.

.....long ago.

bukaroo lol : ur just evil lol

1993:

The Loral catalog of weapons for sale included the ARMY MLRS
missile, the AIM-9 Sidewinder and the Chaparral air defense
missile. In addition, the Loral catalog offered the very latest
in electronics

1999:

The Chinese military took quick notice of the U.S. carriers, and in 1999 the communist army Office of the Central Military Command wrote a report on future nuclear combat with the United States.

"China is not only a big country, but also possesses a nuclear arsenal that has long since been incorporated into the state warfare system and played a real role in our national defense," states the Chinese military commission report.

"During last crisis across the Taiwan Straits, the U.S. tried to blackmail us with their aircraft carrier(s), but when their spy satellites confirmed that our four nuclear submarines which used to be stationed at Lushun Harbor had disappeared, those politicians addicted to the Taiwan card could not imagine how worried their military commanders were," notes the Chinese army report.

2002:

Chinese general told threat against U.S.
unacceptable
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The White House told a visiting Chinese general yesterday that
comments he made in 1995 suggesting China would use nuclear
weapons against Los Angeles were unacceptable.

2007:
The uninvited guest: Chinese sub pops up in middle of U.S. Navy exercise, leaving military chiefs red-faced

By MATTHEW HICKLEY

2010:

mysterious missile launch off the southern California coast

Just throwing this in here

I read (and NOW I can't find it to quote) where a couple were walking the beach and saw the plume. The man said he instantly thought it was a launch. And that it was headed AWAY from the coast.

I have been searching hi and low for other eyewitness accounts and there seems not to be too many.

reply to post by berkeleygal


now that would be a kick in the teeth.

I hope you do find that.

Originally posted by berkeleygal
I have been searching hi and low for other eyewitness accounts and there seems not to be too many.

All the eye witnesses to this Chinese submarine missile launch have been eliminated. How else are they going to put the lid back on and save face?

If I was the Pentagon... I would find some low level scape goat and blame him for launching a missile and do a fake court marshal. That would appease the populace and restore sanity

The scape goat? collateral damage

Another Mystery Missile over New York


Queens gets its own 'missile' attack
www.nypost.com...

I still believe it was one of our missle that launched. Whether it was a mistake, a hack, or a traitor. The government would never reveal what really happened if one of those scenereos were true. People would panic and loose all trust and faith in the safety and security of our military. There would be lawsuits and inquisitions, pitchforks, ect.

You can clearly tell in the picture above that is not a missle. It looks nothing like what was captured by the news camera in CA. Well, by nothing like I'm being specific.