Was NOT an Airplane (as per General)

reply to post by Violater1

Because contrails can spread out then dissipate. The further from the aircraft the wider (and fainter) they can be. Since you know about contrails you should be aware of that. It doesn't really "start" thin, the lighting just gives it that appearance. (Thanks to Oceanborn)


The plane was flying toward the coast as can be seen in the image from LAX. It did not turn out to sea.

reply to post by Phage


These are the photos that I posted, are the one's in question and worth discussing.



However, can you explain why the "contrail" starts out at the bottom of the photo, narrow, then become thicker, then thinner, and then none? I surmise that it was launched towards the US, and then turned away from us, and started to go in the opposite direction, away from us.

reply to post by Violater1

I guess I'm missing your point. Contrails spread and dissapate at the whim of the wind and air condition. And yes, as you said, upon entering air which is not cold enough or moist enough, a persistent contrail will evaporate.

It can be seen here:
www.necn.com...

Another good example:

reply to post by Phage

This is the photo displayed in your link.



As discussed previously, the higher the objects altitude, or the further west the contrail, the brighter the contrail will become. Notice how much darker the bottom of the contrail is in this photo. If it was coming from the west, going east, the bottom would still be lighter. Since it is continuing to climb, it's contrail is being illuminated by the Sun, or it is west bound.

For those of you in L.A. If you look out over the ocean, do you see any contrails? Do you see any contrails like the one's in the photos? Currently, Phage feels that the photos above are UPS flight 902, from Hawaii (PHNL). However, in this similar airspace are several other commercial flights at similar altitudes.
flightaware.com...
United Airlines flt 43 (one of my favorite), American Airlines flight 123, American Airlines flt 73 and a few others, that are regularly scheduled flights. However none of these or other aircraft, left any "contrails". Only UPS902.
This was not a jet aircraft that left the remarkable exhaust plumes in this thread.
IMHO.

reply to post by DoomsdayRex


Obviously random skeptics on ATS have more credentials than a retired general....

reply to post by Violater1

Today, UAL43 flew over Santa Barbara on its way to Honolulu , more than 100 miles north of the route UPS902. It passed over the coast at 36,000 feet. At 36,000 feet the air temperature was -51.5º and the relative humidity was 23%, marginal conditions for the production of contrails. Same for AA123. But how do you know there were no contrails?

AA73 flew over the south end San Francisco bay on its way to Honolulu. How do you know if it produced a contrail or not?

Originally posted by Violater1
For those of you in L.A. If you look out over the ocean, do you see any contrails? Do you see any contrails like the one's in the photos?

I live in L.A., yes I do see contrails from time to time when the weather is just right.

I used to live in Huntington beach too. I was at the beach all the time, especially during sunset. I used to see EXACTLY what we see in the original videos every now and then. The weather changes, so there is not always long lasting contrails. That is why I believe it was a jet, and a big misunderstanding by media and conspiracy theorists and many others.

Originally posted by Violater1
Currently, Phage feels that the photos above are UPS flight 902, from Hawaii (PHNL). However, in this similar airspace are several other commercial flights at similar altitudes.
flightaware.com...
United Airlines flt 43 (one of my favorite), American Airlines flight 123, American Airlines flt 73 and a few others, that are regularly scheduled flights. However none of these or other aircraft, left any "contrails". Only UPS902.

Where is your evidence that they didn't leave any contrails?

Originally posted by Violater1
This was not a jet aircraft that left the remarkable exhaust plumes in this thread.
IMHO.

It was a jet, and it isn't exhaust plumes. It is condensed water. The night before and the morning of the sighting there was a lot of rain. The sky was moist, and it was really cold. In fact, it was really windy all day Monday and they blew a lot of clouds away. Not only was it perfect weather for the creation of thick condensation trails, but it was also windy enough to push them around and spread them out in different ways.

reply to post by Violater1


Violater.......you mentioned three flights, so I looked up the first (your favorite)...and ---- it isn't even a candidate, and would not have bee seen from LA at all!!!

flightaware.com...

See? Denver/Honolulu. Westbound.

BUT, the biggie is, it "coasted out" (that's the term we use, for beginning to enter Oceanic airspace for the crossings. "Coasting in" is the opposite, of course. "Coast" = 'seacoast' or shoreline, FYI)...anyway, coast-out was over San Francisco!!!

Take a look at the link, it's for last Monday's flight.

BTW, without even looking at the next two (and I will, when I'm done typing here) I know by the flight numbers that THEY are westbound too. Odd numbers = westbound, in most cases (especially with the "legacy" carriers).

My cousin sent me this link
www.stevequayle.com...

and on that page is a letter from an anonymous person which is on this link
www.stevequayle.com...

please read the whole letter

November 15, 2010 Anonymous You saw the news of the missile launch north of Catalina in California. Before they put a total lock down on audio/video I picked up a LOT! I managed to record some of it.

1. I have brief video recorded of a close-up telephoto of the missile. It is a MISSILE. NOT an aircraft! Not jet engine "contrails" as the military is now saying.

2. I listened to people interviewed who were on boats out in that area. No one was hurt but they all said this "object" suddenly arose from the ocean at a blinding speed.

3. They ALL said it went straight up. Not sideways like the military now says. Note the military did not ID the "jet" that caused such an odd "contrail". Today, no news, no interviews, no anything other than articles saying "it was just a harmless contrail".

just thought I would throw this into the mix.

reply to post by berkeleygal


Very entertaining read.

Lots of imagination, the person who took the time to write all of that.

Can't wait to hear more..... /sarc/

On a serious note.....really, can't wait to find the source, and bust him/her! (Sorcha Faal again?? Anyone....?)

reply to post by berkeleygal


That is pure hogwash.

The original camera man said it came from beyond the horizon, not the sea. Images clearly show it come from beyond the horizon. Video also clearly shows it was not "blinding speed", more like normal speed of an aircraft.

Jeez, don't shoot me.

Just thought I would add that in here.

I DON'T know what to believe because I DID NOT see it personally.

If someone took me out and showed me a house on a hill, and asked me what color it was I would say it is white, on the side that I SEE. I can't see the other sides so I can't tell you what color the other sides are.

Sorry, I am in a strange mood this evening.

Ok so now your attacking berklygal,, one of the finest researchers on this ATS sight, enough's enough, call off the dog's, a once respected site sinks lower.
Shamefull,, sorry berklygal, guess they don't know your work.

Originally posted by berkeleygal
If someone took me out and showed me a house on a hill, and asked me what color it was I would say it is white, on the side that I SEE. I can't see the other sides so I can't tell you what color the other sides are.

Obviously a Robert Heinlein fan. Hail, sister!!!

[ref to 'this side of house' is from a novel by the great SF writer]

Originally posted by weedwhacker
reply to post by Violater1

 

Violater.......you mentioned three flights, so I looked up the first (your favorite)...and ---- it isn't even a candidate, and would not have bee seen from LA at all!!!
flightaware.com...
See? Denver/Honolulu. Westbound.
BUT, the biggie is, it "coasted out" (that's the term we use, for beginning to enter Oceanic airspace for the crossings. "Coasting in" is the opposite, of course. "Coast" = 'seacoast' or shoreline, FYI)...anyway, coast-out was over San Francisco!!!
Take a look at the link, it's for last Monday's flight.
BTW, without even looking at the next two (and I will, when I'm done typing here) I know by the flight numbers that THEY are westbound too. Odd numbers = westbound, in most cases (especially with the "legacy" carriers).

Yes, they are west bound, but at the same altitude. Yet for all of the similar aircraft in the area, only one contrail.
And you don't find this suspicious?

reply to post by Violater1

Did you miss this?
www.abovetopsecret.com...

But how do you know those flights did not produce contrails?

reply to post by Violater1

The image is taken from only slightly above sea level. Here is a daytime shot from the same camera. Notice the low layer of haze?

That layer is very common at LAX. Looking "out" through the haze causes things to fade. The more "up" you look the less the effect.

Now here is an image from the helicopter which would have been above much of the haze.

You can see the haze layer and the contrail descending behind it.
Also notice that the "top" of the contrail, actually the part closer to the camera, is darker than the rest of it. And it gets darker still as it moves away from the sunset.
www.necn.com...

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Violater1

 

The image is taken from only slightly above sea level. Here is a daytime shot from the same camera. Notice the low layer of haze?

That layer is very common at LAX. Looking "out" through the haze causes things to fade. The more "up" you look the less the effect.
Now here is an image from the helicopter which would have been above much of the haze.

You can see the haze layer and the contrail descending behind it.
Also notice that the "top" of the contrail, actually the part closer to the camera, is darker than the rest of it. And it gets darker still as it moves away from the sunset.
www.necn.com...

Yes I saw the other posts. My point is that with all of the other aircraft in the area, this was the only one with a remarkable exhaust plume.
Regarding your link to the other photo, the plume is thinner at the beginning, thicker in the middle and then thins out again.
Oh well, out of the several years of posting and threads, we finally disagree on something.
It was bound to happen.
Your in Boston right, I'll fly over and wink a few times.
Now watch all of the MUFON reports fly in.

reply to post by Violater1

I'll ask you again:

What other aircraft were at that location, at an altitude conducive to contrail formation, at 5:15PM. You say they were there. Flight US808 was in the vicinity but 30 minutes prior.