Was NOT an Airplane (as per General)

we will never know either way...Im going with missile though. Reason: because at the end of the video you can see the 'misile' is going away from the camera, not only this but you can see the 'light' coming from the engine. 1 engine, one spot of light. huge plume of smoke

reply to post by doubledutch

At the end of the video (the part the TV station didn't show) you can see that it isn't a missile.
www.necn.com...

This webcam from LAX shows that the plane was flying toward shore.

reply to post by Phage

This webcam from LAX shows that the plane was flying toward shore.

How can you possibly assume that just from a 2d picture?
The foreground looks to be dark and yet the trail appears to be bright..
That may mean it's heading away from the shore, westward into the sun..
Perspective is everything..

reply to post by backinblack


Hi Black. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because there is not a second contrail does not mean that there wasn't a second plane. I am really sorry man but you citing that "where is the other contrail" does not prove anything at all.

This isn't just me trying to be right, this is just not a valid argument no matter what. Period. If you don't believe me google that saying and it will enlighten you.

reply to post by Phage


Thanks for posting this. I've been trying to find the entire 10 minute video of this event and couldn't find it anywhere, but this video shows more than enough to say that it wasn't a missile.

reply to post by majesticgent


You won't find the full ten minute video, just as you won't find the exact location of the helicopter or even the exact time of the incident. It would make the TV station's little goldmine a little less mysterious.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by zorgon

 

This one is pretty good. It appears to show the right turn far over the ocean but with 75knot winds blowing, the contrail does get pushed around a bit.

Why does the "contrail" start out at the bottom of the photo, narrow, then become thicker, then thinner, and then none? I surmise that it was launched towards the US, and then turned away from us, and started to go in the opposite direction, away from us.
Looking at FlightAware, why are there NOT any more contrails in the photo? There must be at least a dozen other aircraft within that photo that would leave contrails as well.

reply to post by Violater1

Ok.

You go find us a dozen other flights in that area, at about 5:15 - 5:25 PM, at an altitude conducive to contrail formation. Then get back to us.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Violater1

 

Ok.

You go find us a dozen other flights in that area, at about 5:15 - 5:25 PM, at an altitude conducive to contrail formation. Then get back to us.

this was NOT a plane

read this

www.heraldsun.com.au...

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by doubledutch

 

At the end of the video (the part the TV station didn't show) you can see that it isn't a missile.
www.necn.com...

This webcam from LAX shows that the plane was flying toward shore.

edit on 11/15/2010 by Phage because: (no reason given)

I currently see Hawaiian Airlines Flt 10, American Airlines flt 270, Delta Airlines flt 1150, and Air New Zealand in the sky right now on FlightAware right now. Why would we only see one contrail when there are multiple flights in the similar air corridor, spaced approx 5 miles apart.
flightaware.com...

it was not a contrail

reply to post by Violater1

What's happening now is not relevant.
Different time of day. Show us the flights around 5:15 on the 8th.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Violater1

 

Ok.
You go find us a dozen other flights in that area, at about 5:15 - 5:25 PM, at an altitude conducive to contrail formation. Then get back to us.

I'm a little taken back at your response, and feel as if you are angry.
Allow me to explain that altitude is only partially responsible for contrail formation.To answer your question, lets first identify what a contrail is. A contrail is the condensation trail that is left behind by a passing jet plane. Contrails form when hot humid air from jet exhaust mixes with environmental air of low vapor pressure and low temperature. Vapor pressure is just a fancy term for the amount of pressure that is exerted by water vapor itself (as opposed to atmospheric, or barometric, pressure which is due to the weight of the entire atmosphere above you). The mixing occurs directly behind the plane due to the turbulence generated by the engine. If condensation (conversion from a gas to a liquid) occurs, then a contrail becomes visible. Since air temperatures at these high atmospheric levels are very cold (generally colder than -40 F), only a small amount of liquid is necessary for condensation to occur. Water is a normal byproduct of combustion in engines. This cloud formation is very similar to the process that occurs when you breath on a cold winter day and you can see your own breath in the form of a "cloud". You may have noticed that on some days this "cloud" you produce lasts longer than on other days where it quickly disappears. The length of time that a contrail lasts is directly proportional to the amount of humidity that is already in the atmosphere. A drier atmosphere leads to a more short-lived contrail, while an atmosphere that has more humidity will lead to longer-lived contrails. However, if the atmosphere is too dry, no contrails will form. Occasionally a jet plane, especially if ascending or descending, will pass through a much drier or more moist layer of atmosphere which may result in a broken pattern to the contrail, with it appearing in segments rather than in one continuous plume.
Now in regards to finding flights that appear around 17:15 to 17:25, I invite all viewers to monitor the traffic around KLAX. Please go to flightaware.com... Using classic view, the viewer can enlarge the Live Tracking Screen, to include flights leaving or, that are around Hawaii. Members also (at least they used to) have the ability to go back several days and track the past flights of aircraft.
But what do I know, I only fly TR-3's out of EAFB

reply to post by Violater1

I am very aware of what causes the formation of contrails.

I, and others have been very interested in the flights into LA which occurred around 5:00Pm, over or near Catalina, at an altitude conducive to contrails.

Here are two of them. US808, and UPS902. As it turns out we have other images of the contrail, with timestamps which show that UPS902 is the likely culprit. US808 was in the area 30 minutes earlier and 2,000 feet lower.
flightaware.com...
flightaware.com...


Now, if you can find other flights (as I requested) it would be helpful because I cannot.

Oh, can I get a ride sometime?

Originally posted by DJW001
You won't find the full ten minute video, just as you won't find the exact location of the helicopter or even the exact time of the incident. It would make the TV station's little goldmine a little less mysterious.

Concur.

I've been bending over backwards to try and excuse the sloppiness just to enthusiasm for 'great pictures', but the way the full info was sequestered away or simply denied -- as if professional video cameras didn't time tag their video, or even GPS mark it as so many private cameras can do -- really is arousing the suspicion there was intent.

Originally posted by Phage
reply to post by Violater1

 

I am very aware of what causes the formation of contrails.
I, and others have been very interesting in the flights into LA which occurred around 5:00Pm, over or near Catalina, at an altitude conducive to contrails.
Here are two of them. US808, and UPS902. As it turns out we have other images of the contrail, with timestamps which show that UPS902 is the likely culprit. US808 was in the area 30 minutes earlier and 2,000 feet lower.
flightaware.com...
flightaware.com...
Now, if you can find other flights (as I requested) it would be helpful because I cannot.
Oh, can I get a ride sometime?

There will be over half a dozen flights in proximity to the UPS flight, at your requested time. However, I apologize
that I cannot display to you the classified information that you request. I do invite you and the other readers to follow FlightAware at 17:00 to 17:30. By going to these links (the first, for KLAX and the second, PHNL), you will be able to track these flights.
flightaware.com...
flightaware.com...

The answer to the second question, no. But if your in Boston, I'll fly over around 01:00, while on the way to Hanscom AFB.

reply to post by Phage


However, can you explain why the "contrail" starts out at the bottom of the photo, narrow, then become thicker, then thinner, and then none? I surmise that it was launched towards the US, and then turned away from us, and started to go in the opposite direction, away from us.

GOBERMENT TOLD ME IT WAS A THAT THERE AIR PLANE

DAM THESE AIR PLANES FLY FAST

www.youtube.com...