De-Facto State of War: US vs China

reply to post by torqpoc


Whats if it's just a (show) to keep the public dumb or even the brits could be there really trying to calm the whole thing down and get a few brownie points by gettin some jobs outta it for the UK..
Just one of my many thoughts.

Peace

reply to post by boondock-saint


Nicely put, the facts come together very well.

If this is true, expect more American deaths in Afghanistan and Iraq, because China can call for its allies Pakistan and Iran to intensify the proxy war against US.

Originally posted by torqpoc
reply to post by Shminkee Pinkee

 

Dear Shminkee Pinkee,
I very much doubt the count of warheads or missiles is relevant. Any nuclear attack will be countered immediately. Therefore even if the US launched it's entire nuclear arsenal, the Chinese (or any bad guys for that matter with Nuclear capabilities) will retaliate before any warhead hits home. Final outcome, the United States and the attacker/offender/defender would be living in Nuclear fall out hell for the foreseeable future.

What you should compare is size of armies, forces and their capabilities. Also the size of the countries involved and people therein. In that respect China dwarves any nation state on the planet.

Regards,
T

edit on 11-11-2010 by torqpoc because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-11-2010 by torqpoc because: spelling

The U.S. can destroy China without them even knowing its gonna happen. 20 B-2 Stealths and 100 F-22s ring a bell? How about some Ohio class subs just off the coast with stealth TLAMS. Thats just the stuff we know about.

reply to post by boondock-saint


Good thread boondock-saint

Funnily enough, I started this thread earlier today without seeing your one, it shares somewhat the same idea regarding the whole China Vs US issue.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

I've always thought that if the proverbial was to hit the fan it would be thanks to either China or Russia. I share many of Joel Skousens thoughts on the subject.

reply to post by Sky watcher

The U.S. can destroy China without them even knowing its gonna happen. 20 B-2 Stealths and 100 F-22s ring a bell? How about some Ohio class subs just off the coast with stealth TLAMS. Thats just the stuff we know about.

Not everyone have the same thirst for destruction as you do unfortunately.

These days when people go to war, there are objectives, you don't just go to war to destroy the other nations.

It is not about destroying China, it is about obtaining certain objectives, maybe you should find out what those objectives are.

reply to post by beebs

Great video.
Makes sense for the OP`s theory.

Found this too.
Iran today continues to align itself politically with the People's Republic of China as the European Union and United States push forward with policies to isolate Iran both politically and economically. Iran has observer status at the Shanghai Cooperation Organization and aspires to membership to this organisation, in which China plays a leading role.

In July 2004, Iranian parliamentary speaker Gholam Ali Haddad-Adel stressed China's support for Iran's nuclear programs.[53] China's Foreign Minister, Li Zhaoxing also said that his country opposes Iran being referred to United Nations Security Council over its nuclear program, and claimed that the Iranian government had a very positive attitude in its cooperation with the IAEA.

1993:

The Loral catalog of weapons for sale included the ARMY MLRS
missile, the AIM-9 Sidewinder and the Chaparral air defense
missile. In addition, the Loral catalog offered the very latest
in electronics

1999:

The Chinese military took quick notice of the U.S. carriers, and in 1999 the communist army Office of the Central Military Command wrote a report on future nuclear combat with the United States.

"China is not only a big country, but also possesses a nuclear arsenal that has long since been incorporated into the state warfare system and played a real role in our national defense," states the Chinese military commission report.

"During last crisis across the Taiwan Straits, the U.S. tried to blackmail us with their aircraft carrier(s), but when their spy satellites confirmed that our four nuclear submarines which used to be stationed at Lushun Harbor had disappeared, those politicians addicted to the Taiwan card could not imagine how worried their military commanders were," notes the Chinese army report.

2002:

Chinese general told threat against U.S.
unacceptable
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

The White House told a visiting Chinese general yesterday that
comments he made in 1995 suggesting China would use nuclear
weapons against Los Angeles were unacceptable.

2010:

mysterious missile launch off the southern California coast

reply to post by oozyism


Nicely put.
You make some good points.

There is a massive economic war happening ...

Oil is so critical that most countries will pay any price to get it. Raising the price does NOT destroy demand as happens with many commodities because there is no viable substitute - this was evidenced as we watched oil go from $20 to $150 and back down ... and with MINIMAL change in production.

Global inflation only changes the numbers, it doesn't change anyone's ability to buy oil because all the prices go up. On everything. Everywhere. Different numbers, same oil supply problem.

So the only way to slow down demand for oil to stay in line with supply is to destroy the purchasing power of some countries. To literally bankrupt some countries so they buy less oil.

Exhibit A: The European financial crisis
Exhibit B: All the chatter about currency deflation wars

I don't think my theory is the cause of the financial meltdown. But I do believe the meltdown is being used (or easily could be used) to curb the demand for oil.

china has no interest in engaging us in a violent war. our country is already dead. They have us by the balls financially as they sell off their bonds and get rid of their dollar reserves. there's most certainly a financial war going on, which we've already lost, but the Fed and our govt are propping up a fake dollar. They are just postponing the inevitable collapse and there's not much more they can do because the printing money game can only last so long.

reply to post by djtek


Take away China's ability to import oil from major sources like Iran and China loses the economic war in a matter of months.

Not saying that is in the works ... but tides of fortune change quickly.

Originally posted by area6
reply to post by djtek

 

Take away China's ability to import oil from major sources like Iran and China loses the economic war in a matter of months.

Not saying that is in the works ... but tides of fortune change quickly.

The same goes for US don't you think? All the precious energy resources are in an area which deeply hates the US, tat is pretty obvious and undeniable. All China has to do is to support some Iranian like revolutions. US = GAME OVER.

Why do you think US has sent its troops in to that area? Because US knows how much the people of that region hates it. The US has even toppled Democratically elected governments replaced by US puppets to guarantee US access and guarantee US exploitation of the oil rich lands.

History is filled with such examples, Iraq and Iran are one of the most obvious ones, you should asked Saddam while e was alive.

reply to post by oozyism


I agree, the US faces the same risk of a game changing event.

To be relevant to the OP, we are seeing increased tension between the US and China. And I think a lot of other countries are going to get thrown under the bus in this clash of the titans.

Here's an interesting article on possible EMP and what it led to. I don't know how reliable the source on this is though but its a good read!

projectworldawareness.com...

One question - WHY would the Cardinal be targeted by EMP? Sometimes ships break down, I know I've been on one when there was a fire and there was no conspiracy there just a number of events that combined brought about a fire. Bad luck sometimes happens.

Saying that, the EMP idea is more interesting so lets run with that...

As for the argument bouncing back and forth as to who would win in a China vs USA war -answer is no-one. Even if the US has ten times the amount of warheads that China does that means very little. Once the SHTF everything on the planet will suffer.

But this won't happen, I promise. Although..Nostradamus did predict it, so who knows....(cue spooky music)

WTF- I was looking at a link from China and found this -

hopefully your google translate works

www.chnqiang.com...

reply to post by 3finjo


This is the why:

projectworldawareness.com...

Second time posting this please read and stop asking lol this link has a lot of information

reply to post by Skerrako


Hahaha, you're joking, right? I read the link, very..erm...lets just say they make a few giant leaps. The Chinese decide to test a weapon on a packed cruise ship deliberately provoking an American response to see how long it would take? Then the Americans deliberately fire a missile knowing it would miss so as not to escalate the situation? If i wrote this as a novel it would be classified as science fiction, not thriller.

If the chinese wanted to test their system they would do it in secret against one of their own decommisioned ships. And they would not want to know the US reaction time because it would be swift and decisive - ie they would not aim to miss as the article implies. The Chinese would be minus one sub. It would get smoothed over in political circles but the Americans defend their interests robustly.

Originally posted by torqpoc
reply to post by boondock-saint

 

Dear Boondock-Saint,
Interesting theory, nice factual base for your thoughts. I do however think you are far off the mark. The United Kingdom prime minister is visiting China for trade agreements. I don't think the representative for America's strongest ally would be visiting China if there were a state of de-facto war in place.

Do you?

Regards,
T

Are you familiar with what happened after Nagasaki?

There are reasons for safe travel during war.

reply to post by ksorelleesq


Wow!!! I'm praying that was just a forum post, or blog, and not an actual article, cause if it was????


Yipes!!!!



This article too, bears reading....

www.bloomberg.com...