Social Security And Medicare Should Not Be Cut

reply to post by calstorm

heck what about us 40 and 50 year olds, who have been working all our lives, have had taxes taken out regularly for social security, heck, some of our taxes probably fed and clothed some of these whiny kids when they were young!! heck, how much do you think we really had to save for retirement after all that...then many of us put that money into IRAs....which are just another PONZI SCHEME...invested in houses....ya, that worked out real well didn't it....the screwed up the bookkeeping so badly, god only knows if the money we are paying on those houses are going to the right people!!!

you want to end welfare, convince a businessman to pay a payrate that a person can live on!! because as long as the workers of this country are finding themselves dependent on those programs.....well.....
if you drop that help, you are basically cutting off the hand that is feeding you!

reply to post by Holly N.R.A.


I am with you Holly, very well said, and true. I am one of those who lives on Social Security Disability, and for your information, mnemeth1, S.S. is a Trust Fund that I paid into over my working years, not a government handout. I worked in the Automotive Trades and drove a Semi hauling Food Products and Medical Additives such as Glucose, which is in support of the American people.

Social Security Trust Fund

Trust Fund FAQs

By law, income to the trust funds must be invested, on a daily basis, in securities guaranteed as to both principal and interest by the Federal government. All securities held by the trust funds are "special issues" of the United States Treasury. Such securities are available only to the trust funds. In the past, the trust funds have held marketable Treasury securities, which are available to the general public. Unlike marketable securities, special issues can be redeemed at any time at face value. Marketable securities are subject to the forces of the open market and may suffer a loss, or enjoy a gain, if sold before maturity. Investment in special issues gives the trust funds the same flexibility as holding cash.

source link

I live from check to check, always worried that our checks will not come. I have two small boys I am raising, and I and my wife are both disabled and unable to work, even if there were jobs for us. If the checks stop, we will have but two choices. Take food and medicines from others at gunpoint, or starve and dies of sickness. Is this what people really want?
Are we really the "Useless Eaters" TPTB call us all the time? Or, are we what was at one time a hard working American Citizens who deserves an income and medical care when we get old or disabled, from the Trust Fund we all paid into by Law?

I'm glad some boomers decided to post here!

The truth is, Social Security used to be an independent program that paid for itself. The current workers paid into the system, got older and lived off the money they had paid into the system when they were working. it was a beautiful system, no tax dollars needed.

The problem is, that congress decided that Social Security money could be used for other projects - Tax refunds, funding the military and so forth - and decided to steal *cough* I mean borrow the money out of the fund. Social Security actually has plenty of funds to take care of the boomers. idiots in both parties have just taken it, spent it, and then ran into the night screaming, WASN'T ME!!!

Yes... it was.

""If you want health insurance, you buy health insurance.""

Did you read the "Healthcare" Bill that Congress passed? By July 2010 all States were to have a website up showing us our options to pick from for our new mandatory Federal Tax. Congress allowed the States to miss the deadline because of the November Elections. Now that is over, you will see the States getting their websites up.

I suggest you read that bill they passed. Healthcare has been Nationalized. They will have Bronze, Silver, and Gold plans for you to pick from. It doesn't matter which one you pick. These "insurance" companies will be getting reimbursed from the Treasury for procedures done on you. The maximum amount they will be reimbursed is $90,000. I hope you don't need heart surgery.

The sole purpose of Nationalizing Healthcare was to generate new revenue so Congress can afford to pay +70 million baby boomers Social Security. And have 50 million on Food Stamps. And have 8 million Federal Employees, military, and Federal Contractors. And have 7 million people on Veterans Affairs. And to afford giving 45 million illegal immigrants Section 8, welfare, free school for their kids, and 100% Free healthcare under the EMTALA Act.

That's right. The new "healthcare" bill they passed mentioned illegals will still get 100% free healthcare under the EMTALA Act.

If you fail to apply for the new "healthcare" you will face a $25,000 fine. The IRS has been given authority to levy fines on your annual income tax claim, the fine is $750. If you file taxes jointly with your wife and have 2 kids...your annual fine from the IRS is $750 x 4 = $3.000.

If you claimed 10 Exemptions on your W-4, your fine will instead by $750 x 10 = $7500.

Smokers will pay 1.5 times a month as non-smokers. If you lie and say you don't smoke to get the cheaper rate your fine will be $250,000.

These new "insurance" companies have been given new powers. They can refuse to give you medical care. You can appeal and must comply with some silly bureaucracy and file appeals and you'll likely die before your appeal is seen.

Health Insurance has been Nationalized. It's no longer about "healthcare". It's sole purpose now is to generate revenue for Congress. This sentence was in the bill after Congress passed it:

""It is the sense of Congress that the funds created by this Act be reserved for Social Security"", page 392.

Now that Congress has read the Bill that sentence has been removed. But too late. Hundreds of thousands of people from around the world downloaded the original bill after it was passed. We now know why the rush to pass it without reading it. And we now know why they removed that sentence to hide something.

The sole purpose of America Nationalizing Healthcare was to generate Revenue for Congress for it's Liabilities. This Generation is being enslaved to provide Social Security for the Baby Boomers. America is screwed.

reply to post by Holly N.R.A.


The USA is not a "tribe", your church group is a "tribe".

You are electing people to do violence on your behalf.

Beating people and imprisoning them is far more evil and wrong than telling them they must work for their survival.

Originally posted by sisgood
I'm glad some boomers decided to post here!

The truth is, Social Security used to be an independent program that paid for itself. The current workers paid into the system, got older and lived off the money they had paid into the system when they were working. it was a beautiful system, no tax dollars needed.

The problem is, that congress decided that Social Security money could be used for other projects - Tax refunds, funding the military and so forth - and decided to steal *cough* I mean borrow the money out of the fund. Social Security actually has plenty of funds to take care of the boomers. idiots in both parties have just taken it, spent it, and then ran into the night screaming, WASN'T ME!!!

Yes... it was.

It was never a beautiful system, unless you consider the use of violence beautiful.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
They should be wiped off the face of the earth instead.

Both Medicare and Socialist Insecurity have counterparts in the private sector of the economy.

If you want health insurance, you buy health insurance.

If you want to save for your retirement, you buy gold or silver.

Of course, arguing which is better is pointless, because only the private sector does not engage in violent totalitarian brutality if you refuse to take part in them.

By now it should be clear that a person who bought gold with the money they would have paid into socialist insecurity would be light years ahead of the chump who was forced to dump 15% of his salary into the government's violently enforced ponzi scheme.

If we are going to have government handouts for the poor people, they must be means based welfare handouts that are funded by incoming tax revenues, and they only must be given to people who are completely destitute. They must be bankrupt, homeless, and be incapable of working.

Violently forcing innocent citizens to pay into a completely insolvent system of ponzi schemes is MORALLY WRONG

IT IS MORALLY WRONG

THE USE OF VIOLENT COERCIVE FORCE AGAINST PEOPLE WHO HAVE HARMED NO ONE IS WRONG.

Did the publik skools stop teaching this simple lesson in morality?

Is it suddenly OK for bullies to rob the weak of their lunch money on the playground today?

NO!

While I am against all forms of welfare, the ponzi schemes the government has going today are a sick joke. No one should be forced to pay into a ponzi scheme. If we must have welfare for the poor, then it should be WELFARE, not a ponzi scheme.

The debts must be liquidated and the violent looting must stop. People must be given a choice to opt out of the ponzi schemes. People must be free to chose what kind of retirement plan they want. People must be free to use whatever currencies they want. People must be free to chose what kind of healthcare they want. People must be free to chose PERIOD!

The so-called cuts that have been proposed to these violent looting schemes are a joke. A two year age raise 40 years from now? Are you kidding me? We have well over 50 trillion in unfunded liabilities and payroll taxes take a full 15% from everyones paychecks that goes right back into paying interest on existing debt.

The whole system is a joke.

A sick, disgusting, violent, joke.

Ok, if I understand the process correctly, 7.65% of your wages are taxed for both these benefits. Broken down, this comes to 6.2% for social security benefits and 1.45% for Medicare benefits. Via Social Security tax from the employer, this amount is then DOUBLED for the employee. So if we eliminate these two crucial benefits, and the employee opts to "buy gold or silver" instead as you suggest, how is this of greater advantage to the employees? The only one I see benefiting here is the employer which is usually doing much better off than the lowly struggling employee who depends on these benefits when the time comes that they are simply too old to be productive. Is there more to this than I am seeing?

It is just me, or is it true that every plan or idea always seems to be against the middle class folks. The middle class always get the screwing somehow or another, and then through no-fault of their own, when the chips are down, the target to cut is the middle class all the time.

OP, are you by any chance a business owner or one of higher than average wealth?

Now, with the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy now apparently being continued (which in the 1st place was passed during a surplus economy), that will cost the debt I believe 4-5 trillion dollars!! But you suggest that is fine but lets eliminate crucial benefits for the middle class? How much more does the middle class need to get screwed?

Am I missing something here? Honestly, thats all I want to know. Because I hope I am missing something here. Thanks.

reply to post by pplrnuts


Your employer has to match what you pay in payroll taxes, which means your employer pays you proportionately 8% less than you otherwise would be making if there were no payroll taxes.

So the total percentage of payroll taxes that directly affect your take home pay is roughly 15%.

If there were no medicare or social security, you would be taking home a 15% larger paycheck.

Employers must budget this additional cost for each employee they hire, in the same way they must budget for ancillary benefits, such as 401K matching or other incentives.


Using back-of-the-envelope guesstimations, this works out to me being able to purchase roughly 6 oz. of gold a year throughout my working life.

I'm 34 now, and I've worked since I was 13. If we count starting from the age of 18, and say I purchased 6 oz. of gold a year from the time I was 18 with the money that was forcibly stolen from me in payroll taxes, I would have 96 oz of gold right now.

96 oz. of gold is currently worth 135,000 dollars.

That's a hell of a retirement account - and I still have 30 more years of work left in me.

If we say I worked until 65 and continued to buy 6oz. of gold a year, I would have 400,000 to retire on in todays dollars. - not including any equity in any other investments I might have, such as land, 401K, pensions, or other assets.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by pplrnuts

 

Your employer has to match what you pay in payroll taxes, which means your employer pays you proportionately 8% less than you otherwise would be making if there were no payroll taxes.

So the total percentage of payroll taxes that directly affect your take home pay is roughly 15%.

If there were no medicare or social security, you would be taking home a 15% larger paycheck.

Employers must budget this additional cost for each employee they hire, in the same way they must budget for ancillary benefits, such as 401K matching or other incentives.

Ok, thanks for the info. I will have to figure it all out at another time.

In all honesty, I am fine with whatever is the CORRECT solution here. But what really concerns me is that what I have been hearing so far seems much like another screwing for the already screwed middle class who has gotten enough screwing already if you know what I mean. Further cuts or burdens for the middle class just isnt the right thing to do in my opinion.

Originally posted by pplrnuts

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by pplrnuts

 

Your employer has to match what you pay in payroll taxes, which means your employer pays you proportionately 8% less than you otherwise would be making if there were no payroll taxes.

So the total percentage of payroll taxes that directly affect your take home pay is roughly 15%.

If there were no medicare or social security, you would be taking home a 15% larger paycheck.

Employers must budget this additional cost for each employee they hire, in the same way they must budget for ancillary benefits, such as 401K matching or other incentives.

Ok, thanks for the info. I will have to figure it all out at another time.

In all honesty, I am fine with whatever is the CORRECT solution here. But what really concerns me is that what I have been hearing so far seems much like another screwing for the already screwed middle class who has gotten enough screwing already if you know what I mean. Thats just not the right thing to do in my opinion.

The correct solution is to stop the violence.

Even if socialist security and medicare were good programs that had a net benefit, they are still predicated on violent theft, which is morally wrong.

reply to post by mnemeth1


where's the violence????

and well, if they beat you and threw you in prison for that contribution to social security....

what did they do to ya to get the money that they used to PAY OFF VIRTUALLY EVERY MORTGAGE IN THIS COUNTRY....or wait a minute....they didn't pay off the mortgages, did they, they just gave that money to the banks.....and well, to show their gratitude to us, the banks hired a bunch of airheads...probably paid them three or four times as much as I am getting paid, to commit fraud so they could foreclose on the houses....

ya....sure....those poor elderly people out there are the ones depriving you of the good life!!

Personally I don't care what they do!! I literally exchange my blood (hernia, causes bleeding, so I literally crap blood and well....I can tell just how hard I worked the day before by the amount of blood I crap! I have health insurance...another ponzi scheme if you think about it!! most of us have crappy policies with high deductables that well, we can't cover that deductable in the year anyways...so what the heck are we paying for it???
oh ya...our money is pooled with others, so that those more endowed can afford their medical care!

well, I earn my paycheck with my blood, and those in power think nothing of frittering it away so those big bankers can get an extra million more than they did last year, so fish can have a bridge to swim upstream, ect...ect...ect....

the whole danged economy is a scam...but lets gripe about social security and those elderly people who have worked most of their lives instead of taking the easy way and dumping the mother of their kids....or popping kid after kid out year after year....and counting on us taxpayers to foot the bill....
ya, it's those elderly!!!

reply to post by dawnstar


Refusal to pay into the ponzi schemes results in armed men showing up at your door and assaulting you.

Originally posted by mnemeth1
reply to post by dawnstar

 

Refusal to pay into the ponzi schemes results in armed men showing up at your door and assaulting you.

First of all, they only assault you if you resist. Good luck with that gold investment, let us know how it works out, when gold falls back to 300 dollars an ounce, even 500 dollars per ounce. Most geologists agree that something like 90% of the gold in the world is still in the ground, they just need to find a viable way to mine it. Hopefully, your gold investments are in boullion as opposed to the swiss francs that your leader endorses, as at last calc, gold had to hit 2500 dollars an ounce for those that bought them to even break even.

To people like you, I say go live somewhere that there are no taxes, drive on the crappy roads, do not have a reliable water supply, no security, no fire protection, no workplace protection, no public education, no food safety, etc, etc. Sorry to have to be the one to explain this, but our taxes do go to some programs that do some good.

It must be nice to be in the prime of life and not have to pay much for insurance, try it when you are 50, and an insurance company tells you that you are obese because you are 6' and 200 pounds. Some of you people really need a reality check.

reply to post by roguetechie


I'm put in the mind of an old adage:
To convince a reader, state the facts and the truth.
If the facts are not on your side, scream the truth.
If the truth is not on your side, stress the facts.
If neither the truth nor the facts are on your side, USE ALL CAPS.

Myself like many have paid thousands of dollars of hard earned money into Social Security for decades, we've counted on this. Congress over the years has used SS for a slush fund borrowing and spending recklessly on other without paying back. If there are any cutbacks they better start with every elected official and government employee. What makes me absolutely sick is what they are paying Postal Employees, how much education does it take to deliver mail or drive a truck?

reply to post by BubbaJoe


"First of all, they only assault you if you resist."

Oh, well then.

I guess that makes it ok.

I'll only punch you if you don't give me your lunch money.

Originally posted by Boomer1941
Myself like many have paid thousands of dollars of hard earned money into Social Security for decades, we've counted on this. Congress over the years has used SS for a slush fund borrowing and spending recklessly on other without paying back. If there are any cutbacks they better start with every elected official and government employee. What makes me absolutely sick is what they are paying Postal Employees, how much education does it take to deliver mail or drive a truck?

Its gone.

The money is GONE - what you paid, you paid in taxes - it was not an investment in your retirement.

The money was spent as any other tax revenue was spent.

Since this money is gone and the so-called adults in our society allowed this to happen, it is now their turn to reap what they have allowed to be sown.

Pushing the fraud on to their own children is UNCONSCIONABLE.

The generation of voters who stand to benefit the most from the fraud of these ponzi schemes is engaged in electing politicians who will violently loot their own children's pocket books.

Absolutely disgusting behavior.

reply to post by mnemeth1


so.....you want them to do away with the social security....
you think that will save you a few taxdollars.....
ummm......ya sure.....
the polywogs have spent the past few decades spending the tax revenues, then going through the social security revenues...AND THEN BORROWING A TON OF MONEY ON TOP OF THAT!!!
but, you think that if they just disband social security....
you will have more money in your pocket???



first such a move will be just like the gov't defaulting on their debts.....the next thing that would happen would be the rest of the world...if they have any faith in our gov't's desire to pay what they owe, will lose it quite quickly!!
second, well.....guess who will end up having to take care of those elderly boomers......THEIR KIDS!!!
which just might end up being considerably more than what you are donating to the social security fund.
and third.....
you will still be sending an insane amount to the federal gov't....who will still be going through it and then going out and begging and borrowing...if they can find any one to lend it to them.....if they can't well they will just take more of yours, or degrade the dollar more...but by God.....unless a way if found to hold them accountable for their actions...well....THEY ARE GONNA SPEND AS MUCH AS THEY WANT...FOR WHATEVER LAMEBRAINED PURPOSE THEY WANT!!!
giving the free pass on their looting of the fund to begin with....not demanding that they keep their word there...well...I don't see how that is holding them accountable for squat!!!

I think your anger is misdirected.....
I think maybe you should look at your own generation....
how many dads do you know who is playing the disabled card, and working under the table....just to avoid their child support payment??
how many moms do ya know who are hopping from man to man, having a kid here having a kid there.....and well....haven't worked a day since they graduated from school?? their occupation is motherhood....dad thinks he should get a free pass from supporting the kid, and the dear ole taxpayer gets the priviledge of paying out the butt......for the kid's sake!!!
There's ladies 80+ years old who've worked more in just this past week than some of these girls will in their entire lifetime, unless, of course, the checks stop coming to them....
do you propose to take that check away from them???
na......they're destitute!!!
those elderly ladies at work, deserve that small pittance of a social security check far more than most of these women..
and that's what been happening all along....take from the seniors.....from the social security fund, cut their medicare, cut their checks....cut, cut, cut...
and give it to a bunch of lazy people who don't want to work, don't want to take responsibility for themselves, let alone the kids they bring into the world....
allow the businesses to pay less and less to the workers...enrich the select few with insane salaries and perks, and then expect the taxpayer to keep the workers alive..ship the jobs to countries and use their slave labor...

and well...to heck with american workers!!
okay, to heck with the workers, hey, ya know what, I am one!!
to heck with work!!
find some other fool to do my job!!
find some other fool to help pay for the bankers million dollar bonuses!!
find some other fool to play the game...
if you want to find me, well....I'll be in one of these mountains around here....
living on OUR public land...
fishing in our public streams...
harvesting our public cattails, acorns, and whatever else I can find that is edible or usuable!!!
and well, as far as my mortgage, is just like those signs you see in the gift shops....
you break it, you buy it!!
the danged bank can have it back...they destroyed the chain of ownership...the title is more than likely tarnished beyond repair.....the broke, they've just bought it....
I don't owe them a dime!
gov't doesn't have to pay their bills...
why should I have to???
especially when technically, as a taxpayer, I am already on the hook for more money than it would take to pay for every mortgage this country, with another bailout to the crooks around the corner!!!

I am tired of slowly killling myself trying to live in your society!
It's time to get away from your society....if I am gonna kill myself, well....I will be doing it to benefit ME!

reply to post by dawnstar


I'm not trying to save money.

I am trying to stop violence.

And I am trying to stop an insolvent ponzi scheme from being rammed down the throats of America's children.

reply to post by mnemeth1


you will probably see your violence (real violence) soon enough......but not by armed gov't officials..
but by sections of the people!!!

but...the question is....
just whom will that violence be directed at???
it was scapegoating that led to the mass murder of a whole lot of jews, and other unwanteds in europe last time around....
who will be mass murdered this time??
the smokers????
how about all those single moms and their kids???
how about those boomers???
bankers.....alot of the jews were in the banking industry then...were quite wealthy also.

so...who will it be?????

this all could have been avoided, if they had acted about 20 years ago....
but na......the haves had to have more!
and more...
and more....
ya know they worked real hard, they should have more!!!!
ya know, if we move our production to china, they will let us use their prisoners as slaves to make our crap....AND WE CAN HAVE MORE!!!
if we take Iraq....we can have more!!!
and more...
and more....
we've worked really hard ya know....
we deserve more!!
bigger houses, more houses....
more cars...
more of everything.....
the me, me, me in me is slowly killing herself just to stay alive in this society...
but they deserve more!!!
they worked hard ya know......

your anger is misdirected!