Iraq War footage (graphic)

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
LOL, like I said, you will go to great lengths to miss the point...and you just went a little farther off that cliff didn't you. I am sorry that you do not get it. I am sorry that you are having trouble with my English writing. I am even more sorry that I have made my point 4 times and you have repeatedly missed exactly what it is that I am getting at. Fine, sit here and missinterpret things, confuse things, and miss the point. I cannot teach you to read from here so I guess I give up.

I'm truly sorry that you can't seem to grasp what is being written. If I could, I would spell it out in crayons, but there are limits to the Internet that even Algore can't overcome.

Maybe you ought to stick with the non-military threads, since you seem to be having a hard time understanding them.

Really? All you do so far is throw around insults. Try making a point or saying something intelligent or informative and let's see what happens.

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
Really? All you do so far is throw around insults. Try making a point or saying something intelligent or informative and let's see what happens.

Well, Gus, if you took the time to actually read what I wrote, maybe you'd be able to engage in an intelligent debate.

Until then, you are a no-go.

reply to post by angel of lightangelo


Angel, don't you remember the Beatles song from the White Album?

Happiness is a warm gun? (they get warm from usage)

When you're in a combat zone, and you and your buddies have been shot at, dodged IED's, been in pitched battles, received occasional potshots from unknown locations, dodged RPG's, ran from mortar fire, seen civilians slaughtered, and been exposed daily to the general chaos that these non-uniformed clowns initiate, day after day, week after week, month after month, and you finally get a shot at some of them? You've hunted, and hunted, and hunted these guys without getting a good shot and now you've got a shot at one?

And you get a hit?

Oh yeah.

It is satisfying. Rewarding. Justified. It feels goooood.

Just like points here on ATS, some guys keep score just to keep in interesting, and you just upped your points.

Since you're there anyway, trying to do your job, and you finally succeed?

Yes. Call it job satisfaction if you will.

They are happy they killed this SOB. And good for them!

You don't have to like it. You don't have to understand it. Just the way it is.

Yup, I get it guys. I got it a long time ago. Sorry though, what we see and what you say are two different things.

I know you want everything to be that completely justified scenario that the average joe would never get but sorry. Bad stuff happens too. Did you find a way to justify the soldier tossing the puppy off the cliff too?

I am not knocking the military as a whole, nor am I knocking anyone for celebrating a kill.

I am knocking this footage of these people getting so excited and bragging about shooting a wounded man who was NOT a decoy.

P.S. if you want to debate the things you are talking about, go start those threads. This one is about the footage shown here.

[edit on 21-11-2008 by angel of lightangelo]

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
I am knocking this footage of these people getting so excited and bragging about shooting a wounded man who was NOT a decoy.

Well, as the OP's source states, the man had a weapon. What was he doing with that prior to his getting wounded?

And I sure don't remember any briefings where they stated, "Once you've wounded someone, he's off limits to shoot again."

reply to post by jerico65


Did I ever complain about them shooting him again?

I was talking about the attitudes expressed and you know it.

I am so sorry that where ever I go, I have my own opinion about what I see actual footage of. So sorry. I am not sure about you but I live in the United States of America where I am not only allowed, but encouraged to express myself.

reply to post by angel of lightangelo

Yes, you are entirely correct. Here in the US, you are certainly free to state your opinions and concerns.

Just one little suggestion, and I do this with all sincerity. I wouldn't express those opinions and concerns too much where fighting men are gathered around.

Maybe that young guy just won the pool on who would get the first raghead that day! And he's excited! Not only did he maybe win some money, but he got to kill an enemy! In combat, there is nothing that gives greater pleasure and a sense of satisfaction!

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by angel of lightangelo

 

Yes, you are entirely correct. Here in the US, you are certainly free to state your opinions and concerns.

Just one little suggestion, and I do this with all sincerity. I wouldn't express those opinions and concerns too much where fighting men are gathered around.

Maybe that young guy just won the pool on who would get the first raghead that day! And he's excited! Not only did he maybe win some money, but he got to kill an enemy! In combat, there is nothing that gives greater pleasure and a sense of satisfaction!

You continue to miss the point. You keep talking about the satisfaction of killling the enemy. I am talking about gloating about shooting a wounded man. We are talking about two completely different things. Mine is on topic, yours is what you hope happend before hand.

Bragging about the great feeling of shooting a wounded man is sick.

Bragging about killing the enemy before he kills you, fine.

The guy that walks up afterward and then shoots a few more times and then brags as much, is an ass.

reply to post by angel of lightangelo


No. You're the one who doesn't get it. We're on topic. You've got your blinders on.

The guy is giddy because he just killed that SOB! Get it?

He's glad the bastard is now dead! Get it?

To see the guy crumble and fold up after the second burst - made him happy! Get it?

You don't know sick. You wouldn't know sick if it jumped up and bit you in the tender parts!

That's the point! YOU DON'T KNOW!

You just have your opinion, and that's based on . . . certainly not experience.

How in he** can he be happy before he shoots him? That makes no sense! You can get a little excited as you line up your sights on him, but the real satisfaction is when you pull that trigger and see that bastard go down!

It's exciting! "Did you see that?????" "OH! HELL YEAH!" I've heard the identical, same words after a 500 pound bomb fell right on top of a sniper in a small alcove.

The kill. That's what generates the happiness and excitement. That's what you're getting paid for.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by angel of lightangelo

 

No. You're the one who doesn't get it. We're on topic. You've got your blinders on.

The guy is giddy because he just killed that SOB! Get it?

He's glad the bastard is now dead! Get it?

To see the guy crumble and fold up after the second burst - made him happy! Get it?

You don't know sick. You wouldn't know sick if it jumped up and bit you in the tender parts!

That's the point! YOU DON'T KNOW!

You just have your opinion, and that's based on . . . certainly not experience.

How in he** can he be happy before he shoots him?

Easily. He is already down and no longer a threat. That should make you completely elated. The person that downed him should also be elated. The guy that puts a bullet in a downed man deserves no cheers or kudos, nor the right to be prideful in his "kill."

I suppose it is victorious to go shoot the deer someone else just downed with three slugs first as well?

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
Easily. He is already down and no longer a threat.

The enemy is a threat until he's dead. A wounded man could still easily shoot you. That's why you don't turn your back on them until they are either dead or someone has taken custody of them.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
Easily. He is already down and no longer a threat.

The enemy is a threat until he's dead. A wounded man could still easily shoot you. That's why you don't turn your back on them until they are either dead or someone has taken custody of them.

Ok, whatever you say allright. You obviously watched completely different footage than I did. I guess those sheep, that puppy, those thirsty kids, and those random cars that the soldiers are so jacked up about blowing up and tossing off a cliff and shooting at and taunting all over youtube were still threats too. You win.

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
Ok, whatever you say allright. You obviously watched completely different footage than I did.

Sorry that doesn't fit in your grand scheme of things. That's war. If you are so inclined, do some reading about the Marines in Pacific fighting the Japanese. They had the same problems.

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
I guess those sheep, that puppy, those thirsty kids, and those random cars that the soldiers are so jacked up about blowing up and tossing off a cliff and shooting at and taunting all over youtube were still threats too. You win.

Sheep? Kids? Random cars? I really don't remember those in the OPs video link. Must have missed them, huh?

reply to post by angel of lightangelo
[mor

I always stressed to my guys that after a firefight, we were to clear the field, and make damned sure these guys were dead. Not dead, but dead dead. I told them that a dead man will kill you, but that a dead man killed twice was only dangerous.

Sure as hell, one guy got in a hurry, flipped over this guy who was dead, and underneath him, he had pulled the pin on the grenade, but kept the spoon intact as he lay on it, stomach down. That's why I like to roll them onto their back with rounds.

The young man wasn't paying a lot of attention, and the explosion took off the side of his face and a lot of meat.

OK. His fault. He didn't use due diligence. And he paid.

I'll say this again. Dead is good. Deader is better.

Originally posted by jerico65

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
Ok, whatever you say allright. You obviously watched completely different footage than I did.

Sorry that doesn't fit in your grand scheme of things. That's war. If you are so inclined, do some reading about the Marines in Pacific fighting the Japanese. They had the same problems.

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
I guess those sheep, that puppy, those thirsty kids, and those random cars that the soldiers are so jacked up about blowing up and tossing off a cliff and shooting at and taunting all over youtube were still threats too. You win.

Sheep? Kids? Random cars? I really don't remember those in the OPs video link. Must have missed them, huh?

I said all over youtube, not in this thread but I know you have been on ATS long enough to perhaps happen upon the 5 threads that I saw those videos in. You can say you never saw them all you like and when I come across them again, I will be sure to post a link here. Most people that have been around either ATS or Youtube for more than 10 minutes looking at any war footage have at least seen some of that.

I will do my best to help ya out but anyway, that was, again, just me expressing my thoughts and then you again, reminding me that I have no right to do so.

Originally posted by dooper
reply to post by angel of lightangelo
[mor

I always stressed to my guys that after a firefight, we were to clear the field, and make damned sure these guys were dead. Not dead, but dead dead. I told them that a dead man will kill you, but that a dead man killed twice was only dangerous.

You do not get it.

Neither one of you gets it at all. Not even close.

I understand everything you saying. I am not arguing any of that. All I ever commented on at all was the glee in the soldier putting bullets in a downed man.

Let me say this one more time.

You stop the enemy, celebrate!

You stop the enemy, make sure he is completely stopped.

If you are the guy the puts the last bullets in the man writhing, crawling, laying on the ground, you just should not be so damn proud and excited.

I did not disagree that if you want to get a deer, you need it to actually die. I still say that If you put 3 slugs in it and it goes down and your buddy comes and puts one last into his head, you really think your buddy should be filled with the same gleeful pride as you? Really?

Stop the enemy! YAY!

Make sure he is dead.

Celebrate putting the bullets in the easy target as he lays there one the ground. eh not so much.

that is old as footage i saw like 4-5 years ago

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
I said all over youtube, not in this thread but I know you have been on ATS long enough to perhaps happen upon the 5 threads that I saw those videos in. You can say you never saw them all you like and when I come across them again, I will be sure to post a link here. Most people that have been around either ATS or Youtube for more than 10 minutes looking at any war footage have at least seen some of that.

I will do my best to help ya out but anyway, that was, again, just me expressing my thoughts and then you again, reminding me that I have no right to do so.

Sorry, Gus. If it's not part of the OP, it doesn't belong here. Remember, stay on topic.

The video is of a Marine shooting an insurgent that was wounded.

Originally posted by angel of lightangelo
Celebrate putting the bullets in the easy target as he lays there one the ground. eh not so much.

How do you know that he wasn't the guy that initially shot the insurgent? That isn't addressed in the video.

reply to post by jerico65


If you need to be right this baddly ok. Be right. I live in America where I am free to have an opinion about what I can see with my own two eyes; especially when I add what else I have seen and read. I am not sure where you are from but you should come here. Here I could say what I did and the next person would say what they want instead of insisting what I said was wrong. They would just say whatever opposing view they have, it is their right as it is mine. Sorry that I tried to bring my American rights to an internet forum.