You think you deserve to earn more than $200k a year?

reply to post by byteshertz


I have 1 or 2 friends who are millionaires. You would never know it to look at them. They wear blue jean coveralls, and drive 15 year old Ford pickups with mud, and cow crap all over them. They would give you the shirt off their back. That is also why they hide their money. If you asked nice, and really needed it they would give it to you, but they hate being liked for their money. Their houses are nice, but modest. They never give to charities that call, and solicit constantly. They go under cover to different off the wall places, and find where the money is really needed. The unpopular places like soup kitchens, and homeless shelters. When they give they make the administrators promise to never tell where the money came from.

I went with one to buy his then new ford pickup some 10-15 years ago. The salesman asked him what range of monthly payments he could afford. His reply is my personal financial motto, "I can't afford to make payments." The salesman didn't get it. "How are you going to pay for the truck?" He replied "With money." The salesman still didn't get it. "How are you going to finance it?" "I'm not." The salesman said "Then how can you buy the truck?" "Hard earned cash, right now." The guy just looked at him slacked jawed, and said he had been in car sales for 5 years, and this was the first time anyone had ever paid cash for a truck. They actually had to do extra paper work, and it was more trouble to pay cash because the dealer doesn't get all the financing kick backs. Later he showed me on paper that he saved over $5000 in interest by not playing their game.

I find older model cars that I like that are high quality with low miles, and pay cash. New cars are a vanity tax. Don't play the game. My 9 year old Montero limited is just as nice as anyone elses brand new car. It drives nice, it looks pretty, it goes everywhere, and all I pay for is gas, and liability insurance. The newest coolest cell phone or gadget is vanity tax. Shopping at [insert high end department store] is vanity tax. Don't play the game.

My first car was a 1974 Impala with only 30K original miles I gave $700 for cash. I bought a car on payments once, and it was a huge mistake. I paid over $33K for a truck that had a $25K sticker price, and when it was paid off it was worth less than $10K. That's $23K wasted!! I could have paid a huge portion on my home with that money. I was a rube. I don't see people of lower economic status as lesser, or inferior, or stupid, lazy etc... I see them as duped by the game. QUIT PLAYING IT!!! Remember You cannot afford to make payments.

Nice thread! Money makes more money, damn right. I know alot of people who earn only 13k a year, and they work alot, but they get around working multiple jobs, 7 days a week. so the 13k is from their fulltime job, and they scramble another 4-5k somewhere else, it's hard really.

I would love to earn that much. However, do I deserve to? Simple answer, no I do not. I think that, for what I do, I get more than enough. It enables to to live a comfortable lifestyle and pay my way. Anything more, to be honest, would be wasted.

Reply to post by byteshertz

Does it suck? Yes. As badger pointed out, there is no pie. Our individual wealth can be manufactured regardless of how much is out there.

I for one am grateful I live in a place where my financial success can be determined through my own efforts, and I am not stuck getting what the government says I should get because everyone has to have an equal share.

Personal responsibility and self reliance are cornerstones of a free society, where one can make their own opportunities.

The ironic thong is that we are slaves to the dollar.


Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com

reply to post by BigTimeCheater


star for you mate ,nice post ... i'm live witness of two systems in my country ..socialism till 91 then the "liberal" kapitalism , and i can clearly see the difference ...back then almost everybody smiling, no unemployment ,intelectual conversations,greed was on low level but now the friendship and love is gone with the wind..now almost all my friends will sold my friendship for handfull of dollars and every conversation is almost about money ..greed is everywhere .

mistake, this was reply on Ismail post

We will always be slaves as long as the monetary system exists. Corporations use promotions and the perspective of a good career as a "carrot on a stick" on their workers and thus perpetuate the "dog eat dog" situation we are worldwide in. How can anyone live in piece in such a situation, even if they feel wealthy, knowing that there is someone (and how many?) who is struggling to take their place?

I live in a poor east-european country. Can you imagine that many people here live by less than $300 a month? It is hopeless.

We have to wake up to what the real problem is, because the world is going down, people. And not because of some disaster or catastrophic events in the near future, but because of our greed, intolerance, selfishness and gluttony.

I think the OP is striking out against the system, when he is really pointing out the corruption of the system. Capitalism is based on the base human desire of greed. Capitalism, properly controlled from its own excesses by a strong government, is the best system that humans have come up with to provide the highest standard of living to the largest percentage of its population. However, when a capitalist system is allowed to progress unregulated, it corrupts itself into what we see today. Concentrated wealth, corruption of the legal system and eventually fascism/feudalism. Capitalism, at least thus far in our history, is good. Corporatism has not been so good.

As far as the original question, I make close to 200K, I also employ 20 others, provide services to non-profits at my cost, etc. Am I worth it, most days, yes. ..and I mean that I personally create enough value for my fellow people so that they want to pay me. That is capitalism and there is nothing wrong with it.

So much gloom and doom
- world is going down
- greed
- gluttony
etc etc
Actually I think once the stupid gov gets its hands out of all our collective pockets and off our collective backs people will be much more generous. How can the natural inclinations of most to be kind and giving work correctly when we are trained from our first day of work that the gov will take a huge 'share' of you earnings and give it to whom it pleases? I love giving. When I have the choice, most people I know give - money, time, skills ...it feels good.
How good do you feel on Apr 15? Or any payday if you actually look at your pay check.?

The one blatently obvious thing the OP is missing is not only the work one might do on a daily basis to earn their money but the work (and money) it took to get there. I guarantee you that a person mopping the floors for 30k/year has not invested anywhere near the time or money that I have for my job. To compare the two being worth the same is ludicrous. Career's of the 200k magnitude are a major return on investment. I have spent the last 10 years of my life doing nothing but schooling and spending every dollar I have and will have in the forseeble future to get where I am today. It is about drive and ambition. If you are mopping the floors you have neither. I came from nothing and have done it all on my own. The statements you make are pathetic and that of a typical socialists who wants the world given to them by the people with the balls to go out and do it themselves. To answer your question, Yes I am worth every penny I earn.

reply to post by byteshertz


How many Euros do you pay per month for housing? We have a modest 10 room house in a suburb outside of Chicago that if on the market right now would go for $250,000 (USD). Our home, while I feel blessed and lucky needs a lot of updating on the inside. Most Americans would consider my house a handyman special. It's not ratty but it needs a lot of remodeling and that is expensive.

We pay approximately $1,300.00 per month for our mortage. Our mortage rate is 5.5% - we have excellent credit as all our charge cards are paid off.

5 lbs of potatoes are $4.00 USD
1 gallon of milk cost $3.50 USD
1 Loaf of bread cost $1.50 USD (We get Rosen Whole Wheat)

We need to get a new car, we are going to get a 2009 new end of year sale Ford Fusion and it will cost us $20,000 USD (Our other car is 12 years old and has 130,000 miles on it - we will keep it for emergencies). Putting $5,000 USD down (from our savings) we will have monthly payments of $650.00

Here in America living expenses are quite higher than in Bulgaria. I've check housing as I love to investigate real estate and housing alone is alot cheaper in Bulgaria. Houses in Bulgaria are almost 1/2 what they are here.

Here in America you cannot even touch a house that is "nice" for under $300,000 (unless you go to a rural southern area where there are no jobs).

We recently had our home painted on the outside and it cost us over $2,000.

Our property is 155 X 75'

The average apartment in the suburbs of Chicago will run you $900.00 per month for a two bedroom apartment.

We haven't taken a vacation in over 15 years - going to Wisconsin next June

We cannot afford to travel.

Very rarely eat out.

I do not buy expensive clothes, jewelry or food.

My one passion is books, I do buy books and nice soap.

We don't drink alcohol or smoke (too expensive).

If you get hurt and need to go to an emergency room, you are looking at at least $300.00 just walking in the door. We have fairly good insurance coverage from my husband's work so we only have to co-pay a very small amount (we are very lucky) there are tens of millions of Americans with no job or health insurance.

While I would not trade you places, life in America is changing. Most of our jobs are outsourced now to India and China. There are very few jobs here. I am lucky my husband at 66 is in good enough health he can still work. He hopes to retire when he is 70.

And, if the Republicans have their way, the Social Security we have both been paying into for the last 40 years may be stolen out from under us.

Our taxation is quite high. We pay a lot for our big boys in Washington to live a cushy life. Check into the retirement package our Senators and Congressmen have compared to the average American. And, they are suppose to be working for us not vice versa.

Many Americans have had their pensions stolen - my brother in law who worked for Earnst & Young had almost 45% of his pension stolen and he had to go to court.

While again, Americans are for the most part better off right now, and have a higher standard of living than many Bulgarians (according to my information) that is changing.

We Americans have allowed a very corrupt government to become in Arianna Huffington's words (and book) "Pigs At The Trough").

Best of luck to you and let us know what stuff cost and life is like in Bulgaria.

I have seen pictures of Bulgaria (can't afford to travel) and it appears to be a beautiful country. Would love to read about your experiences living in Bulgaria. Where you born there? What do the items listed above cost you? How is your unemployment rate? Do you live in or near a major city or rural? We live in the suburbs of Chicago, so our expenses would be a little higher than other more rural places.

I love learning about people that live in other countries.

Now, lastly read my location.

I did not chose this lightly.

Corporations not only run America, it is becoming world wide.

Back in the 60's and early 70's women could afford to stay home, keep their house in order, raise their children correctly and attend to their marriage. Now, it takes two incomes for most Americans to simply put food on the table and a roof over their head.

One major financial issue and they could find themselves going from middle class to homeless overnight.

Hope you find the articles below helpful.

How much does the typical American family make? This question is probably one of the most central in figuring out how we can go about fixing our current economic malaise. After all, we don’t hear many people saying in today’s world that they have too much money.

The median household income in the United States is $46,326. Here in California people have a hard time understanding that yes, 50 percent of our population live on $46,000 or less a year. Even today, all the elixirs and remedies being thrown around fail to focus on income and the big brother of income, solid employment. Dual earner households have a higher median income at $67,348.
17.8% of all U.S. households make more than $118,200 a year. Only 2.67% make more than $200,000. The fact that only 34% make more than $65,000 is astounding given how expensive other cost of living items have gotten over the past decade. That is why the middle class is feeling squeezed from all different sides.

When I put together a budget for a family making $100,000 I received a bit of feedback on both sides. Even though I realized very few people had household incomes in the 6 figure range looking very closely at the data, I can understand why people took issue with a budget that was at that level. I also put together a budget from someone living in California making $46,000 a year and received feedback as well. I think when it comes to income, you can never have too much.

What is even more fascinating, is how even amongst the super wealthy income is not distributed evenly. There are approximately 146,000 (0.1%) households with incomes exceeding $1,500,000 a year. Even at that, the top 0.01% of households had incomes of $5,500,000 and accounted for 11,000 households. The 400 highest tax payers in the nation brought in a stunning $87,000,000 a year. Now that is wealth.

For us mere mortals, it is important again to focus on that chart. $46,000 does not go a long way. In a recent Census report there are 110,000,000 households in the United States. What this data tells us is that 55,000,000 households are living on $46,000 or less a year. Let us assume this is a married couple with 1 child. Let us run the numbers:

17.8% of all U.S. households make more than $118,200 a year. Only 2.67% make more than $200,000. The fact that only 34% make more than $65,000 is astounding given how expensive other cost of living items have gotten over the past decade. That is why the middle class is feeling squeezed from all different sides.

When I put together a budget for a family making $100,000 I received a bit of feedback on both sides. Even though I realized very few people had household incomes in the 6 figure range looking very closely at the data, I can understand why people took issue with a budget that was at that level. I also put together a budget from someone living in California making $46,000 a year and received feedback as well. I think when it comes to income, you can never have too much.

What is even more fascinating, is how even amongst the super wealthy income is not distributed evenly. There are approximately 146,000 (0.1%) households with incomes exceeding $1,500,000 a year. Even at that, the top 0.01% of households had incomes of $5,500,000 and accounted for 11,000 households. The 400 highest tax payers in the nation brought in a stunning $87,000,000 a year. Now that is wealth.

For us mere mortals, it is important again to focus on that chart. $46,000 does not go a long way. In a recent Census report there are 110,000,000 households in the United States. What this data tells us is that 55,000,000 households are living on $46,000 or less a year. Let us assume this is a married couple with 1 child. Let us run the numbers:

17.8% of all U.S. households make more than $118,200 a year. Only 2.67% make more than $200,000. The fact that only 34% make more than $65,000 is astounding given how expensive other cost of living items have gotten over the past decade. That is why the middle class is feeling squeezed from all different sides.

When I put together a budget for a family making $100,000 I received a bit of feedback on both sides. Even though I realized very few people had household incomes in the 6 figure range looking very closely at the data, I can understand why people took issue with a budget that was at that level. I also put together a budget from someone living in California making $46,000 a year and received feedback as well. I think when it comes to income, you can never have too much.

What is even more fascinating, is how even amongst the super wealthy income is not distributed evenly. There are approximately 146,000 (0.1%) households with incomes exceeding $1,500,000 a year. Even at that, the top 0.01% of households had incomes of $5,500,000 and accounted for 11,000 households. The 400 highest tax payers in the nation brought in a stunning $87,000,000 a year. Now that is wealth.

For us mere mortals, it is important again to focus on that chart. $46,000 does not go a long way. In a recent Census report there are 110,000,000 households in the United States. What this data tells us is that 55,000,000 households are living on $46,000 or less a year. Let us assume this is a married couple with 1 child. Let us run the numbers:

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/dbfc73c5e355.png[/atsimg]

I ran the numbers for a state with no state income taxes, Texas. A family at this level is only bringing in $3,215 a month. The national median home price peaked around $200,000. So let us assume this family purchased the median home:

5% down payment: $10,000

Mortgage 30-year fixed (6.5%): $1,200

Taxes and Insurance: $333

PITI: $1,533

Right off the bat, this family is spending 47% of their net pay on a median priced home. We didn’t even account for any pre-tax retirement account investing. Given the recent stock market performance and the loss of $50 trillion in global wealth, maybe that wasn’t such a bad idea. The bottom line is the average American family is being squeezed from every angle. What we need is a focus on jobs and our economy, not bailing out banks. That defeats the entire purpose. The average American family is struggling getting by and when they hear about these billion dollar handouts, they can’t help but to feel left out.

Source: fedupusa.org...

And prices vary by parts of our country. I couldn't even afford to buy a closet in LA or NY, seriously.

A 3 bedroom condo like Fraiser had in the hit series "Fraiser" in Seattle WA would have cost him 1.5 million from my research several years back.

Average vs. Median Cost - What Does it All Mean?
Here are some basic definitions to help clear things up:

•Median home price -- This is the price of a house that falls in the middle (or median) of all homes sold. In other words, half of the homes in the area will sell for more than this amount, and half will sell for less. Most journalists and data compilers refer to the median price when issuing reports.
•Average home price -- This is when you add up all of the home prices in a given area (a city, state or the entire country) and then divide that total by the number of houses sold.
Both of the statistics above use the actual sale price of a home. They do not use the seller's asking price, because these numbers are not relevant or useful. The only thing that matters is what the home actually sold for, and that is what determines both the median and average cost of properties in a given area.

The challenge is that some data sources provide one or the other, while other sources provide both numbers. It would be nice if publishers could use one standard across the board, but that's not going to happen. So in this article, we will simply label everything with average or median.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Average Price Data, 2006 - 2009
Here are some historical figures from the Census Bureau, showing the average sale price of homes sold in the U.S.

•2006 - $305,900
•2007 - $313,600
•2008 - $292,600
•2009 - Not yet available
Let me put these numbers in perspective. If you look at the average sale prices dating back to 1963, you will notice that the price almost always rises from one year to the next. It's usually a very gradual rise, too. But starting in the late 1990s, average home costs / prices began to rise at a quicker pace, and then they dropped in 2007 -- and plummeted in 2008 - 2009. This is a classic pattern of real estate bubbles. But this time, the bubble imploded like it has not done in decades. You remember the housing market crash, mortgage crisis and economic recession, don't you? This is why home prices are much lower today (in many cities) than they were just a few years ago. Good news for home buyers, bad news for homeowners.

Source: www.homebuyinginstitute.com...

I listed homes because everyone needs shelter.

Below is what it cost to live in Bulgaria

Cost of living in Bulgaria - food and drink
Staples such as bread, rice, pasta and flour are about one quarter of the UK price. Dairy products and seasonal fruits and vegetables are typically half. Pork, chicken and lamb can be served in a home in Bulgaria for only 20% of the UK price. Some examples of costs:

•Home and contents insurance, annual 100 GBP.
•Internet connection, monthly 15 GBP
•Electricity, annual 150 GBP
•Gas, annual 85 GBP
•Water, annual 25 GBP
•Local tax and rubbish collection, annual 20 GBP

•10 eggs 0.50 GBP
•250g jar instant coffee 2.50 GBP
•Box of cornflakes 0.80 GBP
•250g butter 0.35 GBP
•1lb sausages 0.70 GBP
•1.5litres of mineral water 0.20 GBP
•1lb potatoes 0.12 GBP
•1litre milk 0.40 GBP
•large loaf 0.40 GBP
•1lb apples 0.18 GBP
•0.5 litre of beer 0.40 GBP
•1kg chicken breast 1.60 GBP
•English language local newspaper 0.10 GBP
•200 ml shampoo 1.10 GBP
•Toothpaste 0.30 GBP
•3kg box washing powder 1.90 GBP
•Roll of toilet tissue 0.20 GBP
•Hair dryer 15 GBP
•Steam iron 32 GBP
•Men´s 100% cotton shirt 18 GBP
•Pair of jeans (adult) 16 GBP

The low cost of living in Bulgarian property is one of the country´s great attractions. However, prices are rising, and will continue to do so after the country becomes a member of the EU in 2007/8, so you need to budget for higher costs if you are planning to live in your home in Bulgaria.

Source: bulgaria.overseas-homes-direct.com...

I would be interested in what others pay for housing, transportation, food and basic expenses.

This is what makes ATS so great, that we are a global community and can share real facts and figures.

Lastly, "The grass always looks greener over the septic tank"..............Erma Bombeck

While America may look like heaven to you, our government is corrupt and our jobs are being outsourced and insourced by the truckload daily.

If you do not have a bachlor's degree and under 45 you can forget having employment, at least in the area I currently reside in.

Originally posted by byteshertz

My first point is someone can work just as hard working 14 hour days moping floors but get payed $30k a year

That is not necessarily true. What constitutes "hard work"? Because the guy physically works hard all day? I challenge this same man to go through 10 years of medical school. I went through 5 years of engineering school and I can tell you that the mental taxation of those 5 years were above and beyond ANY standard blue-collar physical labor. A 14 hour day mopping a floor would have been a mental vacation vs. the 14 hour days of class and studying very difficult material. There is no exhaustion like mental exhaustion, and it's a lot harder to "sleep off".

It's more than physical hard work - it's about marketing yourself. This mythical man you hypothesize may physically work hard, but he has no marketing skills, and it's self-promotion that gets you further than the actual physical work.

Originally posted by byteshertz
My second point is for every dollar you earn someone else must give that wealth up directly by transfer of money or through inflation - in order for you to move up, you must hold someone else down.

This is not true. You sound like one of those people that think raising taxes brings in more money when reality proves the exact opposite. For the sake of analogy, lowering taxes brings in more money as the economic stimulation allows you to take a smaller chunk of a much larger pot, resulting in a net increase of wealth for everyone involved. The same goes with job creation. The owner of a company is forced to hire a janitor because his company is growing and can no longer take care of cleaning himself. This is true with all growth - you are adding staff because you yourself are growing in wealth. In short, everybody wins. A great example of this is all the money the world has made from America's growth. This money isn't being stolen from the poor. It is being created by innovation. The economies of the world are worth tens of trillions now. Decades ago, it was only worth tens of billions. Where did this order of magnitude of growth come from? It came through decades of innovation and the vast creation of wealth that ensued.

You have a very pessimistic, idealistic and emotional view of the world, but it's not logical. The world is not black and white, and Robin Hood doesn't actually exist. And thank God, because Robin Hood is probably the most criminal "hero" of all time.

Yeah Chinese work as slaves, that means hell of a lot harder than people in developed countries. And average salary for them is 1 dollar a day its 365 dollars a year.

We are all lucky to have time and energy to talk about such things. Not to mention electricity, computer, internet.

While they have time to think about what eating, sleeping, taking care of family and working so hard tomorrow that employer won't fire them and hire next in line for that job.

Moment of silence for Chinese, Pakistanis and Indonesians.

Peace!

Originally posted by Chett
So much gloom and doom
- world is going down
- greed
- gluttony
etc etc
Actually I think once the stupid gov gets its hands out of all our collective pockets and off our collective backs people will be much more generous. How can the natural inclinations of most to be kind and giving work correctly when we are trained from our first day of work that the gov will take a huge 'share' of you earnings and give it to whom it pleases? I love giving. When I have the choice, most people I know give - money, time, skills ...it feels good.
How good do you feel on Apr 15? Or any payday if you actually look at your pay check.?

And what do you suggest should be done in order the "stupid gov" to get its hands off our pockets? Its each and everyone of us who support this government with our everyday actions. As long as you see things separately you'll be missing the point. Because there is no "poor us" vs. "evil them" also it's not capable vs uncapable. Every single action does matter - you don't live in an isolated system!

Whether or not they deserve it, you posting on ATS will not curb their 'need' of huge payouts. While you expect mature responses and all, almost 90% of the people posting will be obviously those who are stating they 'deserve' their 200k+ a year salaries.

We all know the pyramid of payouts, and its been a long time thing. CEOs getting millions in bonuses, and etc. The pyramid thing is effective and keeps the 'normals' in control. There is no such thing as a fair go in life, you are either given it, or fight tooth and nail to hopefully achieve it.

Also your choice of trade/job highly implies your benefits, apart from being the Boss of the job. What can anyone do about this? Nothing. Its here to stay.

Originally posted by byteshertz
When you make money, directly or indirectly, you have to take that wealth from someone else.

Economics EPIC FAIL.

That computer you're typing on. Did it exist 20 years ago? Think real long and hard about that before you go spouting that "zero-sum" Marxist BS.

reply to post by ofhumandescent

Nice post about the cost of things.
I am an American but haven't lived there in years. Last I was there an Apt. in a mid-sized town near Boston was 950 USD a month, plus utilities etc. (3rd floor walk up)
These days I live in Romania, apt here is 200 Euro month plus utilities. Bread - I pay a bit over a dollar for 2 loaves depends a bit on the exchange rate I got. No car, I walk almost everywhere I go sometime take a cab when lazy for about 3-4 dollars. That happens maybe twice a month.
Most stuff is much less expensive here, gasoline is a lot more and I think heat cost is going way up this winter the infrastructure for it is very old and wasteful (central heating for the whole city).
The recessions has hit here, but not nearly as bad as a lot of places and the gov. has done pretty sensible stuff on tax changes etc. Of course they are still pretty new to capitalism.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Fascinating info! Maybe you should move to Texas our housing in my area is WAY below median, $300K would get you a veritable McMansion. A nice home in a good neighborhood is about $120K. Our local economy is good, and most businesses here have help wanted signs up. A friend of mine took a travel agency job in California one time. It paid $87 an hour. He thought he was going to get rich. He almost starved to death in California. He came back to Texas, and his lowly $30 an hour job, and lived like a king. BTW the people here are several orders of magnitude nicer.

reply to post by byteshertz

You sound whiney and jealous.

People work for money. They earn it. They keep it. No one has a right to dictate what is too much for someone to earn. No one has a right to take money away from someone who is rich, simply because they have more. And as far as your pyramid scheme reasoning .. nope. People at the bottom move up and people on the top move down. If someone isn't smart enough to hang on to it .. it goes away. If someone is smart enough to figure out how to get rich (facebook creator for example) ... they move up.

Oh ... and $200,000 a year isn't that much if you live in NYC, Philly, or LA.
In the back woods of Kentucky it is a lot .. or in an Alabama cotton field, but not the big cities.

So yes, people deserve to earn more than $200K a year, and you have no right to say they don't.

Originally posted by ElevenFlint

Originally posted by Chett
So much gloom and doom
- world is going down
- greed
- gluttony
etc etc
Actually I think once the stupid gov gets its hands out of all our collective pockets and off our collective backs people will be much more generous. How can the natural inclinations of most to be kind and giving work correctly when we are trained from our first day of work that the gov will take a huge 'share' of you earnings and give it to whom it pleases? I love giving. When I have the choice, most people I know give - money, time, skills ...it feels good.
How good do you feel on Apr 15? Or any payday if you actually look at your pay check.?

And what do you suggest should be done in order the "stupid gov" to get its hands off our pockets? Its each and everyone of us who support this government with our everyday actions. As long as you see things separately you'll be missing the point. Because there is no "poor us" vs. "evil them" also it's not capable vs uncapable. Every single action does matter - you don't live in an isolated system!

yeah, you are right. Kinda lost it a bit with that post. I just get a little annoyed with the blaming the 'rich' stuff. We are in fact all to blame, each and everyone of us has a part to play. And mostly we opt out, other than to complain.

Originally posted by byteshertz
reply to post by civilchallenger

 

I would not limit people to $200k - because there are so many factors to consider such as living cost of the area etc, I would actually just limit the ways in which money is produced and put caps on total wealth not income, but I myself see flaws in this - as stated previously I dont have the answers but I see a huge problem than is exponentially getting worse . I am just simply trying to point out that people think they deserve huge sums of money thinking they have somehow worked harder or more intelligently than others when infact this is often not the case. I used an example of someone who earned 1.5billion dollars in 2007 could not possibly deserve this much wealth because this is the equivlent of paying 50,000 people a income of $30,000 over a year - they can not possibly believe they work harder than those people combined - no matter how rare their skills are.


If I was to rewrite this post I would have taken it from a totally diffent angle and left my attention grabbing $200k title out of it. But you live you learn.

edit on 11-11-2010 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)

edit on 11-11-2010 by byteshertz because: (no reason given)

I just told you that virtually all economic studies have found economic restrictions to *increase* the level of poverty in an area. And you reply to me telling me how we need to put in all kinds of economic restrictions now. So my only guess is this point is that your goal is to increase the level of poverty. You pretend to be looking for answers but clearly may not be the case because it it were then you'd look for answers that have actually worked in the past.

Your idea very clearly ends up hurting the very people you are trying to "help". Rather than look at the studies proving that economic freedom works to combat poverty you choose to ignore that and would to do the exact opposite.

The effect of salary caps OR wealth caps is less money for everyone. The answers are all clear when you look at the numbers. The only possible result of your idea is that the most productive members of society will work dramatically less than otherwise. And contrary to popular belief, wealth of the rich is in fact spread around and trickles down to the poor using something called employment in addition to charity. 300 Billion was donated to charity last year in the US but you can be sure of a very sharp drop if a salary cap is implemented, regardless of exactly how it is implimented.

Beyond going into people's houses and taking all their food, shelter, and clothing personally, I cannot imagine a better way to screw people out of their basic necessities than by implementing an absolute salary cap or wealth cap. The effect could easily be worse than a 75% tax rate on the rich.

So I'm going to say one last time that perhaps you should base your ideas on what actually works in real-life economic studies rather than basing it on guesswork. The most economically free countries are Hong Kong and Singapore. Check into their poverty level and then take a look at their salary cap. Will you do that?