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You think you deserve to earn more than $200k a year?

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posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 02:02 PM
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reply to post by byteshertz
 


Is it documented that those born to wealth are likely to maintain their wealth and that those born to poverty are likely to maintain their poverty. It is exceedingly difficult for a person to climb out of the socioeconomic level to which they are born. The deck is stacked against them. The cost of education, which is the number one way to escape poverty is prohibitivly expensive, accesible mainly to middle class and above. Social institutions, as well as societal norms prevent many people from exceeding their born into casts.



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 04:15 PM
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Why blame the middle class for the creation of poverty?

And in the meantime we're paying billions for failing banks, soulless companies destroying our earth and civilization, inflation, huge debt for all countries, worthless money, a weak global economy, corrupt markets ... that's where they're screwing all of us every day. And the middle class keeps paying. So be glad someone is there to chip in a little bit more then you.



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 04:30 PM
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Originally posted by DavidKrabs
reply to post by byteshertz
 


Is it documented that those born to wealth are likely to maintain their wealth and that those born to poverty are likely to maintain their poverty. It is exceedingly difficult for a person to climb out of the socioeconomic level to which they are born. The deck is stacked against them. The cost of education, which is the number one way to escape poverty is prohibitivly expensive, accesible mainly to middle class and above. Social institutions, as well as societal norms prevent many people from exceeding their born into casts.


most people on this thread seem to gloss right over that one. But can a dirt poor person afford law school without his impoverished parents magically getting money to pay for it? Nope.



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 05:23 PM
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Originally posted by Phenomium
You are a miser and a bully. The reason why most poor people drink is because they are depressed from the rich stealing from them and making money off of their hard work. The reason why they are so bad with money, is because most options are based on virtually no money after the government and businesses get through with them. Gas, car, insurance, house insurance, land, mortgages, food prices rising, taxes on this fees on that ETC. Rich people were mostly BORN into what they have and just sit there and feed off of the poor and rip them off while just getting richer and richer. You have this gods and clods attitude and understand nothing.


What a load of horse crap!



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 05:45 PM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 



Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I make more than 200K and year and I DO deserve every penny that I make.

Why you ask?

I built a company, which employs hundreds of people at a GOOD wage which provides GREAT benefits.

Because I do this, my company has been succesfull, by providing a quality product and great customer service.

So yes, I do deserve my 200K+ salary because I've earned it, I've worked for it. I do give generously to our community and various charity as well as human rights organizations because we really don't NEED all that income.

But do I deserve it? Hell yes.

~Keeper


Giving you the benefit of the doubt, let's accept that you really do pay GOOD wages and provide GREAT benefits. How long will that last when the competition hots up and you're being undercut by a company that provides possibly the same quality of service but pays dirt wages and no benefits and discards employees as they burn out. How long will your loyalty to your employees last when that happens?



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 05:48 PM
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Originally posted by joeshsamp
reply to post by Rhebefree
 


Are you outta touch with reality? The game will always be there even if you remove the players. Remove all the middle and lower class and the upper class will just eat away at each other forcing there to be another middle and lower class. the middle and lower class is needed for the dynamics of this game. The sooner you realize that the better off you'll be. If you can't beat them, join them. Millions have said it and so have I. And you don't have to go to college to be wealthy. I barely graduated high school, now i make more then my family combined and i'm not even 30 yet. And yet you tell me that i don't deserve my money. And somehow your gonna bring up exploding babies into this convo. Well if you don't like exploding babies in africa then maybe you should play the game, get some money, and go defuse the baby bomb.


Remove the players, huh..... hmmm.....

on that topic, from Doug Adam's Hitchhiker's Guide book series:
--

"Yes, so anyway," he resumed, "the idea was that into the first ship, the 'A' ship, would go all the brilliant leaders, the scientists, the great artists, you know, all the achievers; and into the third, or 'C' ship, would go all the people who did the actual work, who made things and did things, and then into the `B' ship - that's us - would go everyone else, the middlemen you see."

He smiled happily at them.

"And we were sent off first," he concluded, and hummed a little bathing tune.

The little bathing tune, which had been composed for him by one of his world's most exciting and prolific jingle writer (who was currently asleep in hold thirty-six some nine hundred yards behind them) covered what would otherwise have been an awkward moment of silence. Ford and Arthur shuffled their feet and furiously avoided each other's eyes.

"Er ..." said Arthur after a moment, "what exactly was it that was wrong with your planet then?"

"Oh, it was doomed, as I said," said the Captain, "Apparently it was going to crash into the sun or something. Or maybe it was that the moon was going to crash into us. Something of the kind. Absolutely terrifying prospect whatever it was."

"Oh," said the first officer suddenly, "I thought it was that the planet was going to be invaded by a gigantic swarm of twelve foot piranha bees. Wasn't that it?"

Number Two span around, eyes ablaze with a cold hard light that only comes with the amount of practise he was prepared to put in.

"That's not what I was told!" he hissed, "My commanding officer told me that the entire planet was in imminent danger of being eaten by an enormous mutant star goat!"

"Oh really ..." said Ford Prefect.

"Yes! A monstrous creature from the pit of hell with scything teeth ten thousand miles long, breath that would boil oceans, claws that could tear continents from their roots, a thousand eyes that burned like the sun, slavering jaws a million miles across, a monster such as you have never ... never ... ever ..."

"And they made sure they sent you lot off first did they?" inquired Arthur.

"Oh yes," said the Captain, "well everyone said, very nicely I thought, that it was very important for morale to feel that they would be arriving on a planet where they could be sure of a good haircut and where the phones were clean."

"Oh yes," agreed Ford, "I can see that would be very important. And the other ships, er ... they followed on after you did they?"

For a moment the Captain did not answer. He twisted round in his bath and gazed backwards over the huge bulk of the ship towards the bright galactic centre. He squinted into the inconceivable distance.

"Ah. Well it's funny you should say that," he said and allowed himself a slight frown at Ford Prefect, "because curiously enough we haven't heard a peep out of them since we left five years ago ... but they must be behind us somewhere."

He peered off into the distance again.

Ford peered with him and gave a thoughtful frown.

"Unless of course," he said softly, "they were eaten by the goat ..."

"Ah yes ..." said the Captain with a slight hesitancy creeping into his voice, "the goat ..." His eyes passed over the solid shapes of the instruments and computers that lined the bridge. They winked away innocently at him. He stared out at the stars, but none of them said a word. He glanced at his first and second officers, but they seemed lost in their own thoughts for a moment. He glanced at Ford Prefect who raised his eyebrows at him.

"It's a funny thing you know," said the Captain at last, "but now that I actually come to tell the story to someone else ..."



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 07:22 PM
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So lets get to it...

Many here have brought full into the propaganda that we've been fed for at least a century. That if you work hard enough, "you too can be rich like us!" It's propaganda, but just like the propaganda of the lottery there are winners. As much as the lottery is a sham, there are actual winners, just enough to keep the public palates wet.

In this game of capitalism there are enough winners and runner-ups that we can't say it's a total crime. Sounds familiar huh? There are some ponzi schemes that can boast the same thing.

Lets take the ponzi scheme called Amway, not sure if they're still around even. I remember going to a meeting and finding out the dynamics of the company. Right away it was plain to see what the scheme was. The bottom of the pyramid would be given a chance to work for the middle of the pyramid who work for the top of the pyramid. All the while being fed the line that if they work hard enough, one day they will be up top.

That sounds exactly how our current system works right? There is a broad base of poor people, a slimmer group in the middle and a small cap on top of the pyramid.

The people at the bottom of the pyramid have the weight of everyone else on their backs! The middle, have their eyes on the top and are trying to work to get there. In the process they tell the bottom to stop complaining because they were at the bottom at one time themselves. So make sturdy their backs and keep chopping at the wood. Can't really blame them because otherwise.....THEY'D be the bottom of the pyramid!


Basically what is happening is that, the people who are saying stop complaining and buckle up, are comparable to people who are captives in a prison camp. Lets say they're prisoners in the Nazi camp. Now the dynamics of a prison camp happen to be that the older prisoners have gone through the fire and survived and are basically veterans. They oft times have even earned a little respect from their captors. The captors are often out numbered by the prisoners so of course they need help keeping the prisoners in order. Who else would make sense, but other prisoners who they feed visions and propaganda that they are better than the other prisoners.

The disgusting part is when the treacherous higher prisoners do things such as tell the guards when the lower prisoners are planning escape or some other liberating event. When they tell the lower prisoners to hold their head up and smile while the guards arse rape them.

The worst part is instead of joining with all the other prisoners they support separation and want to be seen as better by the guards. They will do such things as beat the lower prisoners who ask them for scraps because new prisoners are barely given any scraps.

They do all this while the prison guards are laughing and pointing "at the dogs!"

This is what the middle class is doing ($60K - $300K). Their acts are cowardly and misdirected. Instead of aiming their anger toward their true oppressors, they rather pick on the smaller and less fortunate brethren than actually attempt to tackle the big brother who keeps beating them up. They let big brother take what ever he wants from them and merely smiles at them. But soon as baby brother snags a piece of gum, they jump on him and beat the crap out of him.



posted on Nov, 15 2010 @ 10:10 PM
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Originally posted by JohnJasper
reply to post by tothetenthpower
 



Originally posted by tothetenthpower
I make more than 200K and year and I DO deserve every penny that I make.

Why you ask?

I built a company, which employs hundreds of people at a GOOD wage which provides GREAT benefits.

Because I do this, my company has been succesfull, by providing a quality product and great customer service.

So yes, I do deserve my 200K+ salary because I've earned it, I've worked for it. I do give generously to our community and various charity as well as human rights organizations because we really don't NEED all that income.

But do I deserve it? Hell yes.

~Keeper


Giving you the benefit of the doubt, let's accept that you really do pay GOOD wages and provide GREAT benefits. How long will that last when the competition hots up and you're being undercut by a company that provides possibly the same quality of service but pays dirt wages and no benefits and discards employees as they burn out. How long will your loyalty to your employees last when that happens?



Well my competitors have been trying to do that for years now and they can't compete with me. Why? Because I provide good wages and therefore my employees are happier and more productive.

It's simply. People work way better when you actually pay them what they are worth. No company can provide good services by giving employees crappy wages and crappy benefits.

A little logic.

~Keeper



posted on Nov, 16 2010 @ 12:28 AM
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I think the real question is how do we measure the value of the work being done? Does a person's really add value to society or is it really just part of the larger problem surrounding the illusion of money and wealth?

Education and work are only as good as what they accomplish. Money eventually corrupts all people and destroys all things. Generally speaking,due to greed and the desire to preserve our family lineages, we would rather put profits and personal gain ahead of the betterment of the earth and its people. So, if your life and your job revolve around creating nothing but financial wealth or accumulation of physical stuff for yourself or others, does the money you make have any real meaning or value? What does your job actually do in terms of creating a balanced society and healthy planet for everyone?

Is a janitor more important than an investment banker? I think so since they help keep our environment clean and healthy for us. It's a dirty,thankless job that few would do willingly. I say pay the janitor the $200,000 a year.

That's just my two bits,for what it's worth...



posted on Nov, 16 2010 @ 09:22 AM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


Change your game plan. When starting a business it's not just about experiance in that field. you have to consider : is there a market for it, is there alot of compition, and does the economy allow for sucess.?
If your in a area where you have a big compition with other companies it's gonna be hard. expecially if your into some sort of flooring business, it's a bad time right now with this economy to sell a product that is used in the new construction of homes or remodeling. Theres too many people behind on their mortgage and the last thing they are thinking of is a new floor or another house.
I opened my restaurant in april of 2008,( some would say that wasnt the best time considering the economy just took a big fall then.) but i opened in a place that had very low compition therefore it created a greater need for my food. People are always gonna want to EAT, DRINK, and SMOKE. If you can offer one of those things at a good price and better quality then your competitor then you have a gold mine. I believe that those are three of the major things ( along with drugs) that are recession proof, if done properly. now i'm not saying that you should sell drugs, it's too much risk for the money and most of the dealers never last longer then a few years before they either get killed or busted or something else. Short lived riches for them. But you get my point? Grab the bull (customers) by the horns. Make them want to buy your product, sell whatever you have to, move to wherever you need to put things in your favor. I had to move 70 miles away for my restaurant but it was well worth it.



posted on Nov, 16 2010 @ 09:32 AM
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I believe that every human being deserves to be successful or at the least, the opportunity to be successful. And yes, those opportunities are out there, but just because they are out there, doesn't necessarily mean that everyone is given a fair shake at access to them. I have met plenty of the "wealthy types" who were so clueless and mentally inept, that it is mind-blowing that they can even open their checkbooks. But these are folks who either were born into money or who were put into their positions by some means of a "connection", not because they were particularly intelligent or skilled enough to earn their positions. And in the same regard, I have met many "middle" or "lower" class individuals who I can only describe as "genius' " or having "well-above" average intelligence, jockeying cash registers at local convenience stores. As I said, it comes down to opportunities, I am sure had some of these "genius" cash register jockeys had access to the opportunities that many of the wealthy have had, things may have turned out different for them, they may be in positions that they truly deserve. I know plenty of these individuals who have college degrees of different levels and have nowhere to go with them, because employers want "experience" before hiring, but you can't gain experience without landing a job. So they have no choice to do what they are doing, not because they aren't qualified, but because they aren't given the opportunity to shine. And now they are having to do what they have to do to survive. Not because they want to, but because they have to.

I believe it is a total crock that we live in a society where the majority of those in "high paying" positions really don't deserve them. If you worked from the bottom echelon and worked your way into a position of success by honestly earning it, then kudos to you, you do deserve the success..you are a "success story". But if you are one of these "daddy" or "daddy's friend" gave me this position and salary as a favor and a means to keep the family fortune afloat. Then you ARE what is wrong with our society and to be honest, why are you working anyways?, because you obviously don't have to and you are taking opportunities away from those who truly do deserve it. What about a trade? You few wealthy, unintelligent, trust-fund types should trade up and go work at at the local "gas and sip" and let those who have genuine degrees and 1,000's of dollars in student loans to pay off do those jobs that they ARE qualified for, but you ARE NOT. Makes sense to me.



posted on Nov, 16 2010 @ 11:05 AM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


Starting a business is always a gamble - it's an investment of not only capital but of time and effort. In all honesty - sometimes it all comes down to luck as to whether or not a business survives - business/management skills are a huge part of that - but never under-estimate the amount of risk involved in starting a business.

The key to any business is volume. You did good to hand out business cards - but you should consider newspaper advertising or even radio advertising. Sponsoring local and regional events can pull some volume - as can signs. Even a simple sign next to a road indicating you exist is a good start - I cannot tell you how many businesses I've never realized were present until I got out of my car and walked along the street, looking in windows. You can also consider facebook advertising (they have some -very- powerful advertising tools that target based on status changes/updates - someone who moves to your region can be targeted for flooring ads, appliance ads, etc).

At the end of the day - a business's goal is to provide a product or service to people. If people don't know you exist or that you are serious about doing business - then you will not get the volume necessary.

The next thing you need to do is figure out what your operational costs are. If you want to get really serious on this, you will calculate how much it costs to turn on a piece of equipment you use, down to the minute it is in use. You will figure averages for per-unit times on each tool used, calculate cost of materials, cost of power, cost of labor, etc and include it in the per-unit price. A general rule of thumb is to never charge with more than a 2.5% profit margin for most of your transactions.

If you know how much it costs you to start up a machine, use that machine, and how much it costs you to make each part - you can easily orchestrate bulk-order savings (less turning machines on and off, less wasted time changing tooling, more savings to the customer - more volume for you) at a profit and while covering your expenses.

That is a lot of initial work - but it pays off and will help you keep your head above water in tough financial times. Some companies will undercut each other by 0.1% if it means getting the business - this works fine when business is booming and you have orders coming in faster than problems manifest themselves; but when things start to slow and you don't have a good idea of what you can produce your product/service for, you'll drown before you know what hit you. Saw a lot of manufacturing businesses die this way.

Also, be on the look-out for ways you can juggle costs. Example: it only costs about 15-20 cents for the glass of soda you get in a restaurant. Most charge you $2 for that soda. Sounds almost criminal. However - people are more than willing to accept the price in many cases. So, for items like soda, where average market price is well above what it costs to provide, think of how best to use this to draw more people. I don't go to restaurants to have glasses of soda - so reducing the price to $1 is not really going to make the place jumping. Instead, apply this $1 deduction to daily specials or to certain meals that are competitive in the area. People go to a restaurant to eat food, not for the fountain sodas - while you reduce the profit you make off of the soda by offsetting the reduced price of a meal item, you are likely to draw more business over a competitor, and will therefor end up with better overall revenue and net profit.

Every industry has items like that - byproducts or peripherals that often sell for much more than their cost to manufacture. Use that to your advantage in securing customers.

However, if you are looking for a secure income - self-employment or business ownership may not be the best choice. Secure income is typically established through employment (although a job can only be as secure as the business - well over half of all sole proprietorships fail within two years and don't employ much of the population, so jobs are statistically safer).

There is nothing wrong with either choice - and nothing binding one person to a given choice to be an employee or entrepreneur - change is the nature of the world.

If you're going for starting a business, though - a lot of the battle is won before it even starts. Is there a demand for your product/service in the area? Is the demand met by current suppliers? Are you capable of competing with the cost/quality of existing establishments? Are there effective ways of advertising? What is the nature of the market - commuters, or residents? Are they mostly young, or is it a retirement community? Is it a college town or are there families with children? How will all of this impact your business and its market?

It sounded like you were in contracting - unfortunately, one of the hardest things, there is establishing a reputation and work history. Do you want someone who has references of work done 15 years ago still holding up, or someone who only goes back two? You need the work for the experience and the experience for the work - a hell of a cycle to break in a slow economy. You'll need to find members of your trade to find answers and motivational stories about resolving that.

I'm not sure if you'll find that helpful, or not. Just remember that a lack of success is not the same as failure. Failure is not recognizing the reasons for not succeeding and repeating the same mistakes while expecting a different result. Some will tell you not to be afraid of failing and attribute failing to not succeeding - but I don't like such black and white competitive break-downs of win/loss. You don't fail for not succeeding - you fail when you don't learn from what kept you from succeeding.

I suppose it's all the same advice - just a different wording/connotation. And sometimes, while I give others a lot of advice - it's often as much for myself as it is for them.



posted on Nov, 16 2010 @ 03:51 PM
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Yeah, I have done almost everything I can think of to get free advertising. Facebook, kijiji, mayspace. We do lots of different things really, trim, tilework, siding, cabinets. But our specialty is hardwood floors, it is what both me and my pops have been doing since we left highschool. For builders we are willing to do the first job or two for next to nothing, just so they can see we do top end work.

Most of our work came from 4 different builders back in NY, they were each building at least one house a year, and when I say house, I mean castle lol. The last one we did, you could fit a few of our houses inside. 6 million dollar house, you don't get builders like that to use you exclusive without the top end skills.

I could be taking out print, radio and television ads if we had the money. It wasn't really much of a choice on what business to start up here. Tools and machines are not cheap, we already own all the machines to do this business. I guess if it don't work out, there is always the fish factory... That would really suck, going from self built business to minimum wage dead end job. Other than that I am not seeing much else to do.



posted on Nov, 16 2010 @ 05:59 PM
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Really good post, I do agree from a sociological point of view that the system is flawed, at the end of the day everyone should have enough and the same opportunities given to them, then it is up to that person what they do with it. I also do agree with some of the other replies as well, they do deserve their wage as they have earned it, but what about those born into poverty, who cannot afford college and university, who go to schools if they are in a position to go to school, schools that don't care and stick labels on them? The only way we can see the whole picture is to get out of our comfort zone, think outside the box and look at it from every angle, to stand in someone else's shoes for a moment, see how it feels, only then can we see the true nature of the flaws. However the rich would never allow the system to be rectified because it would mean they would have to part with some pocket change....oh the trauma of such a thing!!! Boo hoo! But yeah that's about the size of it all. There will always be class distinctions, nothing will ever be fair and just, unfortunately. It is the way of the world we live in, basically those who do not see the big picture are just going along for the ride. But isn't it quite scary that when we look at predatory animal behaviour then look at ourselves as a whole, we are not that much different.
Compassion and choice makes all the difference, if we choose to be above the feeding frenzy of capitalism and take a more compassionate road! NOW THAT'S EVOLUTION!!!



posted on Nov, 16 2010 @ 06:22 PM
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reply to post by byteshertz
 


I don't make 200k a year, but if there was no chance of me making that kind of money I wouldn't even try.

They did the "make everyone the same experiment" it is called Russia. Ask any Rusky how that worked out.

Also, yeah, with out the rich, the poor don't even have crappy jobs, and they do starve, that is what they have in Africa.



posted on Nov, 17 2010 @ 03:33 AM
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reply to post by tothetenthpower
 



Originally posted by tothetenthpower
Well my competitors have been trying to do that for years now and they can't compete with me. Why? Because I provide good wages and therefore my employees are happier and more productive.

It's simply. People work way better when you actually pay them what they are worth. No company can provide good services by giving employees crappy wages and crappy benefits.

A little logic.

~Keeper


Then you, sir, are a rare gem among employers. All around me I see businesses that are choosing to outsource, off-shore or lay off the 'expensive' local employees and fill the jobs with highly-skilled East Europeans who count themselves lucky to be working for the UK's minimum wage (all strictly legal because it's done as a restructure!)



posted on Nov, 19 2010 @ 06:41 PM
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I completely agree with the original post! It is nice to know other people get it. I am a college student and have worked to pay the bills as well as to have extra money. And I have to say, being here as made me able to see both worlds.And the fact is none of us get it. I consider myself middle-class. Lower-middle class, but middle class nonetheless. I consider myself more lower, simply because it does not take much to not me back down. I could ask my parents for money but to be honest I would rather work through my issues myself. But if I really needed it, I could get the help. That being said, I do not know what it is like having a lot of money. I see kids here driving their new BMW's and spending their parents money. I am not salty about it. However, I am salty that people can have this kind of money when other people barely have money to feed themselves. I even feel selfish at times knowing that I have enough money to blow on material things, yet I do not have enough to really help someone out. Yeah, when people ask me for money, I give it to them. I am not trying to make myself seem above other people by saying that, but why not give them money? People say, oh, they will just spend it on booze and drugs. Like you don't? Who is to say what they are doing is wrong, when other people blow their money on unnecessary things. Like you don't blow your money on a case of beer occasionally? The fact is, SOME people with money do not know what it is like not having money. They feel as if they work hard for their money and if they can make it, why can't other people? The fact is, they live a completely different lifestyle. You think that the lower class wouldn't like to have money to blow as well? It is not as easy to get to the top as some people make it out to be. People claim that America is based on "freedom." Yet, the only people who buy this lie is the people with freedoms. I am not saying people with money do not work hard. But people in the upper-class work hard to have things they WANT; whereas, people who are lower-class work hard to have things they need. Who is to say working at McDonalds isn't important? I am sure it is those people who have put food in your belly occasionally. That being said, it is the government who intends on assuring it stays this way. If not, things would have changed a long time ago. America doesn't have any money, yet they can come up with billions to support a war? What sense does that make? Why wouldn't people with millions of dollars take a pay cut in order to support the lower-class citizens? It isn't like they NEED all that money anyways. But people, are greedy and selfish. They care more for the well-being of themselves than for other people. And until people become more aware of this, the world will never change.



posted on Nov, 19 2010 @ 06:45 PM
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edit on 19-11-2010 by bsim07 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 19 2010 @ 06:48 PM
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Originally posted by downtown436
reply to post by byteshertz
 


I don't make 200k a year, but if there was no chance of me making that kind of money I wouldn't even try.

They did the "make everyone the same experiment" it is called Russia. Ask any Rusky how that worked out.

Also, yeah, with out the rich, the poor don't even have crappy jobs, and they do starve, that is what they have in Africa.





Wake up call: people in the US DO starve!! It is not just happening in Africa! Open your eyes and stop believing America does not have these problems. Without the rich, people wouldn't have those crappy jobs?? Well maybe if the "rich" employers weren't so greedy and would give their employees more money (since these are the people making them millionaires) the gap between the rich and poor wouldn't be so immense.



posted on Nov, 20 2010 @ 09:48 AM
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According to this video...and I believe it 100% people in American and elsewhere are divided deliberately into
THE RULING CLASS
THE MERCHANT CLASS
THE WORKING CLASS
all are at the mercy (even our government) of The Fed and Wallstreet Banksters that own them.
What you bring home depends on which class you are in.

Considering Freemasons were the original money lenders.....
I could extrapolate and surmise....Foundation X is the Freemasons!
But that is another thread.



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