You think you deserve to earn more than $200k a year?

reply to post by byteshertz


Supply vs Demand -basically.

If you are in demand, and your skills are sought after, then you will make more money, simple.

Just an observation, there seems to be an idea of lack expressed in your post. ie the more someone makes the less someone else makes. If you believe this, you will experience lack.

Realise that there are no limits potentially to what you can make. I does not happen overnight and it takes work.

For a lot of people this is 5-10-15 years...

I make many times the average income, because I have upskilled and have a proven track record.
Many people say I am lucky, but they would not put themselves outside the comfort zone as I and many others have.

If you want to make it big, potentially, then a good business is the way. Working for someone else has limitations.

In the end we all need the $$ to pay bills and live ( in the current system ) so the choice is on the individual to make the most of it.

Originally posted by byteshertz
Its all good to scoff at those on welfare but perhaps they actually just understand the game is rigged, or are tired of working their ass off only to luck out.

So would you then defend those that sponge off the system just because they're tired of working their tail off? I'm tired of working my tail off for less pay than I'm worth too. Maybe I'll just quit work and go file for food stamps and medicare tomorrow and check the box labeled "tired of working". Sounds ridiculous doesn't it? I know it does to me. "Tired of working my ass off" isn't a valid reason to be on welfare. Perhaps some of those on welfare are just lazy and want to be taken care of rather than take care of themselves.

(Note that I said some. There are obviously people on welfare who actually can't take care of themselves, some who are on it while trying to improve their situation, and some who have no choice until they can find employment. They are not the ones I was referring to.)


As for the question posed by the thread title, the work I provide is worth more than I earn for it but it's nowhere near worth $200k. There are, however, some who actually do deserve that much for the work they do. There are also some who don't deserve it but get it anyway. The problem is that you can't lump both groups together and just say no one deserves to make $200k or more a year. Do they need that much? Probably not. Few people could actually come up with justification for why they need it. Do they deserve to be paid what they're worth even if the price tag is over $200k a year? Absolutely.

"You think you deserve to earn more than $200k a year?"

Yes. Moving on...

Just an observation, there seems to be an idea of lack expressed in your post. ie the more someone makes the less someone else makes. If you believe this, you will experience lack.

My friend I did not say "the less someone else makes" I said for your wealth to increase you must directly or indirectly take that wealth from others.

example 1: my work or investment pays off so i take the wealth from you or wherever it is invested
example 2: I make money from money lets say through interest. Interest is generated when somthing is loaned.
Inital cash loaned = initial cash + interest
Because the interest did not exist before and has to come from somwhere it is created and through inflation everyone else loses wealth.

The bottom line is there is not enough money to pay off debts because debt = debt + interest
- so someone always has to bear the brunt of it, the richer the rich get the more the number of people are required to be on the bottom of the pyramid.

SO yes you are right, it does take work and there is still a semi functional system - but what I am trying so very hard to convey is that this system is not sustainable, eventually in the future - and already in some places - no matter how hard you work chances are you will get no where because there always has to be people on the bottom and in trying to climb to the top you are just standing on others that are likely already on the bottom - so if you make it good for you, but will your kids make it.

reply to post by byteshertz


Starred, flagged and proudly added you as a friend.

Thank God, someone, anyone is beginning to see the injustice of it all.

The person who flips your burger makes barely enough to put food on the table and cover rent in a small, cramped $hitty little apartment.

I have worked for CEO's and other "important people" and no, they don't do the real work, they have manipulated and fooled everyone else into believing they are gods gift to the world when in actuality they are part of the problem.

Folks, the pie is not being cut evenly.

The people that do the real work make diddly squat and the ones "managing" (I never had to be managed) are not paid near what the "top" dogs are paid.

In America, the payscale is more unevenly distributed than anywhere else.

Now come on, a Hollywood actor that pretends in plays or jiggles their booty is worth hundreds of millions and this is okay?

Where are your priorities America, your a bunch of blind sheep letting the wolves rob you blind.

Start researching the medical benefits our Congress and Senate (and their wives) get even after retirement.

They are suppose to be working for us not the other way around.

Most people, (not you by) are so frigging blind, stupid and compliant it's not even funny.

Wake up people!

The people that do the real work, stock your grocery shelves, get your McMuffin & coffee, scrub out your company toilet, care for your precious child all should be earning a decent salary.

And the CEO's, bankers, Wall Streeters, Stock Exchangers, Managers (that don't really manage) should be taken down a notch.

I've worked the Corporate American Office for some pretty high ups and guess what, they played Monpoly on Tueday afternoon, take off at 3:00 PM for golf on Thursday and aquatic class on Friday as well as waltz in at 10:00 AM whenever they feel like it.

Wake up and demand equal pay for those that really do the real work.

Ask yourself, if the guy that drives the truck 12 hours straigh with the food you are going to need for dinner tomorrow or
The woman that you trust your baby with.
The teachers that shape your child's mind.
The people that serve you breakfast and lunch.
The person that delivers your mail
Our policemen and firemen
The person that unloads those Target and Walmart trucks (my son was paid minimum wage and had to unload a huge truck in under 2 hours. Are paid their worth.

Supply and demand. In my book that truck driver and shelf stocker at Whole Foods is worth more to me than any CEO (who by the way gets bonuses when they figure out a way to outsource YOUR JOB).

Yet we don't bat an eyelass or think it's wrong for Tori Spelling to spend $80,000 on her brats birthday party or Paris Hilton being able to buy a purse and shoes costing thousands of dollars a pop.

Most of you that agree to this insanity are clueless and non empathetic.

Payscales need to be evened out, those that really do the work, should get paid more than they are and those that don't really do significant work should logically get paid less than the millions of dollars a year they are currently paid.

They can't even spend it all they make so much. Supply and demand............HOG WASH!

It is totally unjust for some people to blow thousands of dollars on a pair of shoes and others can't even afford medical care.

The Wealth Distribution
In the United States, wealth is highly concentrated in a relatively few hands. As of 2007, the top 1% of households (the upper class) owned 34.6% of all privately held wealth, and the next 19% (the managerial, professional, and small business stratum) had 50.5%, which means that just 20% of the people owned a remarkable 85%, leaving only 15% of the wealth for the bottom 80% (wage and salary workers). In terms of financial wealth (total net worth minus the value of one's home), the top 1% of households had an even greater share: 42.7%. Table 1 and Figure 1 present further details drawn from the careful work of economist Edward N. Wolff at New York University (2010).


Table 1: Distribution of net worth and financial wealth in the United States, 1983-2007
Total Net Worth
Top 1 percent Next 19 percent Bottom 80 percent
1983 33.8% 47.5% 18.7%
1989 37.4% 46.2% 16.5%
1992 37.2% 46.6% 16.2%
1995 38.5% 45.4% 16.1%
1998 38.1% 45.3% 16.6%
2001 33.4% 51.0% 15.6%
2004 34.3% 50.3% 15.3%
2007 34.6% 50.5% 15.0%

Financial Wealth
Top 1 percent Next 19 percent Bottom 80 percent
1983 42.9% 48.4% 8.7%
1989 46.9% 46.5% 6.6%
1992 45.6% 46.7% 7.7%
1995 47.2% 45.9% 7.0%
1998 47.3% 43.6% 9.1%
2001 39.7% 51.5% 8.7%
2004 42.2% 50.3% 7.5%
2007 42.7% 50.3% 7.0%

Total assets are defined as the sum of: (1) the gross value of owner-occupied housing; (2) other real estate owned by the household; (3) cash and demand deposits; (4) time and savings deposits, certificates of deposit, and money market accounts; (5) government bonds, corporate bonds, foreign bonds, and other financial securities; (6) the cash surrender value of life insurance plans; (7) the cash surrender value of pension plans, including IRAs, Keogh, and 401(k) plans; (8) corporate stock and mutual funds; (9) net equity in unincorporated businesses; and (10) equity in trust funds.

Total liabilities are the sum of: (1) mortgage debt; (2) consumer debt, including auto loans; and (3) other debt. From Wolff (2004, 2007, & 2010).

Figure 1: Net worth and financial wealth distribution in the U.S. in 2007

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/c05ca1e3e76d.gif[/atsimg]

In terms of types of financial wealth, the top one percent of households have 38.3% of all privately held stock, 60.6% of financial securities, and 62.4% of business equity. The top 10% have 80% to 90% of stocks, bonds, trust funds, and business equity, and over 75% of non-home real estate. Since financial wealth is what counts as far as the control of income-producing assets, we can say that just 10% of the people own the United States of America. Source and rest of article: sociology.ucsc.edu...

PS. I didn't get a raise for the last three years at my company,but we did the real work. Our CEO has been acquiring two to three companies per month every month and gave himself a nice 10% pay raise.

All CEO's do is scheme how to screw over the employees in the name of profit.

I think the point of the OP is entirely moot, even though I share some of the sentiment.

There is no "deserve" to begin with. There is a price on your services, plain and simple.

A carton of cigarettes can cost the same as an advanced DVD player. This is absurd but that's how the market works. End of story.

I would just be happy if my family could make what we made 4 years ago, doing the same job, working harder now than then- more hours, less breaks, making more for the company.

Instead, we've taken a 40% paycut - first no more bonuses, then 10% cut, then 20% cut.

At this rate, in what? 3 years? We'll be officially slaves.

reply to post by byteshertz


why stop at 200k man? why not go down 100k? hell why not go down to 1$ and just promise everyone all the food, shelter, healthcare, and vacation time that they need with all the money the government confinscates.

people only make 200k if they provide people with a product or service worth more than 200k.

if i sell a million 1$ buttons or songs on itunes, or podcasts that i charge for. if i didn't force or fraud anyone into buying that 1$ product then i deserve every one of those million dollars. now if the government wants to take a portion because i was educated in their schools, use their roads, am protected by their police, that is 100% fine with me! but what's not fine is to take 80% of that because somebody else outthere hasn't done as well as me and the playing field needs to be perfectly even.

if i get a job managing the finances of a rich person, and i make that person 10 million a year by investing it wisely, working 80 hours a week to take care of this man's assets and make him a hell-of-a-lot more money while he goes out and relaxes and doesn't worry about it. what happens when that rich man says "my god! good work, you gave me an 8% return this year! here's 300k for your hard work" after all i did something worth 10 million dollars for this person! what's wrong with me making a measilly 3% of a return?

reply to post by Jenna


I want to work, after 16 years of service to a company my job was outsourced to "Team India" and laid off.

Companies do not hire 58 year old women.

I've pulled my own weight and worked since age 10 when my mother died and left me an orphan.

Have always held a job and earned my keep.

Do you know how many jobs have been outsourced and insourced in America?

No, your attitude is wrong wrong wrong..............yes several years ago, most people not employed were lazy slobs, now, it's changed, people that want to work, have no jobs in America to go to.

Unless you have one or two degrees and are under 40.

I'm smart, in good health, 20 years experience and a hard worker - have sent out hundreds of resumes to no avail.

Start empathizing with us now, we are not all lazy slobs wanting to sit around and collect food stamps and unemployment.

Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by byteshertz

 

if i get a job managing the finances of a rich person, and i make that person 10 million a year by investing it wisely, working 80 hours a week to take care of this man's assets and make him a hell-of-a-lot more money while he goes out and relaxes and doesn't worry about it. what happens when that rich man says "my god! good work, you gave me an 8% return this year! here's 300k for your hard work" after all i did something worth 10 million dollars for this person! what's wrong with me making a measilly 3% of a return?

You were probably aiding and abetting a criminal in the first place.

No, let's don't go down the 'why stop there' road. Let's go UP it. Why can't the rich just own the rest of us, and we all just work because we don't want to get beat and starve?

Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by byteshertz

 

why stop at 200k man? why not go down 100k? hell why not go down to 1$ and just promise everyone all the food, shelter, healthcare, and vacation time that they need with all the money the government confinscates.

people only make 200k if they provide people with a product or service worth more than 200k.

if i sell a million 1$ buttons or songs on itunes, or podcasts that i charge for. if i didn't force or fraud anyone into buying that 1$ product then i deserve every one of those million dollars. now if the government wants to take a portion because i was educated in their schools, use their roads, am protected by their police, that is 100% fine with me! but what's not fine is to take 80% of that because somebody else outthere hasn't done as well as me and the playing field needs to be perfectly even.

if i get a job managing the finances of a rich person, and i make that person 10 million a year by investing it wisely, working 80 hours a week to take care of this man's assets and make him a hell-of-a-lot more money while he goes out and relaxes and doesn't worry about it. what happens when that rich man says "my god! good work, you gave me an 8% return this year! here's 300k for your hard work" after all i did something worth 10 million dollars for this person! what's wrong with me making a measilly 3% of a return?

I agree, $200k was a nice figure that I thought would grab peoples attention but not infuriate so many as to not have them hear me out. My point is if you get a job working for someone that makes 10 million a year then neither you nor him should be earning that much - because no matter how you justify it you dont work harder than the amount of saleries combined that it takes to reach those figures.

are you guys JOKING OR SOMETHING!?!?!!
in bulgaria the monthy salary is 225euro, imagine for a year you get 225x12
and you AMERICANS think your poor if you make 30,000 a year?
if i had 10,000 i would OPEN A COMPANY

oh and that 225 salary is for a GRAPHIC DESIGNER!!!?
do you get? and the rent is 180,so why dont you come live here and see how nice life is

reply to post by buddhasystem


So you are saying Beyounce is worth more jiggling her booty around than the person you entrust your baby too or the teacher that is shaping your child's brain or the person who drives 12 hours straight to make sure your zucchinis and tomatoes stay nice and fresh and delievered on time for your dinner tomorrow night?

Get real................supply and demand.

I'de rather pay the truck driver, teacher and day care worker and diaper maker better than beyounce and lady gaga.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Perhaps you should re-read my post prior to getting defensive. I made it a point to clarify that I specifically said some on welfare and made it a point to mention that there are very valid reasons why many people are on it. That does not negate the fact that there are indeed some people who milk the system just because they can and not because they actually need help.

Edit: I went back and made my note more obvious since apparently it's easily missed even though it's directly following the line you found offensive.

Originally posted by Stillalive
are you guys JOKING OR SOMETHING!?!?!!
in bulgaria the monthy salary is 225euro, imagine for a year you get 225x12
and you AMERICANS think your poor if you make 30,000 a year?
if i had 10,000 i would OPEN A COMPANY

I'd like to see someone with 10k open a company in America. You couldn't figure out HOW to do the taxes for that.

There's this thing called cost of living. You can make it on 67 a month maybe in India, but not here. Here you have to pay 500.00 to expand your PORCH a foot.

That's part of the problem - with the outsourcing it does not take those things into consideration - Americans are not on level playing fields with those that can make less and be happy for it.

Originally posted by Stillalive
oh and that 225 salary is for a GRAPHIC DESIGNER!!!?
do you get? and the rent is 180,so why dont you come live here and see how nice life is

Understand completely, and thats what I am saying - redistribute the wealth because someone earning
1,500,000,000 a year is just riduclous - this isnt a company this is an individuals income in 2005.
thats enough to pay 50,000 people $30,000 a year, im sure this guy didnt work harder than 50,000 people.

I would gladly give up a $30,000 pay cheque if it meant the wealth was going to be distributed more evenly.
Why should people be driving ferarri's and burning thousands of dollars worth of fuel when people can not afford shoes to walk.
Justify it all you want but the end of the day it is selfishness and fear that keeps us trapped in this cycle.

reply to post by astrogolf


So true

So true

People work their butts off with a family going to school at nights and weekends, get a few certificates under their belt and find they make ok money. But they are smart. See, they know that the world changes and they must change with that world. Instead of complaining about a job and the wife and a kid, these special people shower in the morning and think about what they could do to make their life and others life better. They get in their car, or bus or train and get to their jobs. They smile at the people they work with, they whistle when no one is looking (but they always are) and basically set out to love and enjoy life. Success comes their way because they motivate people and and make others feel good about themselves... Ok so money starts to fall on these people. You know what, that money then goes to the civic community, churches or directly to families. Because you know what? It was never, ever about the money. Ever.

Whether your in America, Mexico, Europe, Asia, these people are the world and the best man kind has to offer.

Which person will yo be tomorrow? Because we all wake up the next day with that choice.

I had a great boss who taught me that I should never chase the money, because if I chase whats right, the wealth will come... And you know what, wealth isn't about money.

So tomorrow, who will you be?

Originally posted by ofhumandescent
reply to post by byteshertz

 

Folks, the pie is not being cut evenly.

Pie ?

There is no pie. That's a catchphrase made up to give the impression that success and happiness are finite and everybody should be dividing it up.

I know a millionaire who has a 6th grade education and started his own contracting company with a shovel and a wheelbarrow.

I know people that grew up filthy rich and aren't worth a skinny damn.

It comes down to what you make of your life and not what you"get".

Is it fair? No, because fair is a baldface lie too.

They system told you all to go to school and get a good job so you can be employees and someone else can decide your future. Well it's been decided for you hasn't it.

No pie for you.

Not unless you make it yourself.

reply to post by ofhumandescent


Big star - great post