Where has all the Money Gone?

Who has all the money? As the chart below shows, almost every country in the world is in debt up to its eyeballs. As countries around the world, including the U.S. soon, take austerity measures, I can’t help but wonder where all the money has gone.

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/502a2a11b534.jpg[/atsimg]

www.cia.gov...

[atsimg]http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/042b3bfdc0f4.png[/atsimg]

www.visualeconomics.com...

Now these figures are a little bit old.. the first is from 2009 and the second shows the U.S. at only 8.68 trillion dollars in debt. Now just doing a quick add up on the numbers showing in the second graphic you get 17 trillion dollars in sovereign debt. This isn’t including personal or corporate debt. I’m imagining you probably can realistically get into the hundreds of trillions of dollars in debt when totaling everything.

My question is, where has it all gone? In order for this to be debt, it had to be borrowed at one point. After being borrowed it is only logical to imagine that it has been spent. Where did it go? The top three richest men in the world have a combined net worth of about $150 Billion. That doesn’t begin to add up. Considering that almost every country in the world is in debt and almost every person in the wealthier western nations our in debt, that would lead me to believe that this money has to be controlled by a very small number of people. I could be wrong, but I am imagining most of this money that started as debt, still exists somewhere.

So where has it gone?

reply to post by wisintel


It is still there, but it is worthless. For every dollar they put into circulation, the dollars you have in your hands become less valuable.

It's gone.. EVERYWHERE.

Population is growing rapidly, so the actual fiat money that's out there is in many more hands...

Plus the Federali's in Mexico last year found HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of US DOLLARS in the wall of some drug mansion... Take it from there.

Its paper money, i doesnt exist. thats whats caused all the trouble and just like the .com bubble, it has to go BANG. I dont know if im right because im no expert, but i think it all started to go downhill in the 80's. thats when credit really took off. before that, if you wanted something and couldnt afford it, here in australia we used to "lay by" it. that meant you picked what you wanted, then you had say 3 months to pay it off and then you got the goods. then they introduced credit cards. before that you had what you had and could afford.

i dont know what your system is like, but here most people have the wages electronically put into their bank accounts. then you have a card linked to your bank account, and you eftpos most things. so you never really see the money. does the money really exist, who knows. if i want to go to the bank and withdraw some, i can, but most times its done electronically.

so u see, my theory is it doesnt really exist. its pretend money. if everyone was to try and call it all in, the whole system goes "poof".

You simply cannot have private banks financing the western economy, which really includes Japan. The "interest" is never printed, and there wouldn't be any debt if the countries simply printed their OWN money! It is ridiculous!
The chart shows that the working people owe the banksters, and the leaders of these countries are not leaders at all, simply bankster employees.
You cannot owe that much when you never borrowed it to begin with. How many here borrowed the 40,000.00 or whatever the U.S. debt is per capita? No, the government did to fund whatever the "leaders" decided to fund with banksters money they print.
Ridiculous.
Where did it go? The vaults of the banksters who intend to buy up entire countries with it.
(This thread is actually related to the Chinese missile thread, imo,)

reply to post by wisintel


What a very good question.

I would think there must be someone in the Global Meltdown forum who could help you?

My initial reaction would be to investigate the money still tied up (and/or lost) in the vast derivatives markets, and banks, as well as the things already mentioned by others here, and pension investments being pilfered.

From my very limited layman's understanding, the derivatives markets, that were initially spotlighted as one of the (the one?) key areas of banking abuse that lead to the meltdown, still exists and still accounts for mega-trillions of dollars, much of which, from what I can tell still represents a potential hazard of much the same magnitude as it did when TSHTF initially.

Perhaps most pertinently to your question, I understand that the liabilities within those derivatives markets tagged to institutions (banks...) and to some extent therefore nations, were well in excess of the GDPs of any nation, indeed I think I heard even surpassing global GDP by a significant ratio. Perhaps that offers some signpost for further investigation?

Some figures here on Wikipedia: en.wikipedia.org...

Like a bucket full of water still precariously perched atop a part open door, it appears to me that TPTB castigated the perpetrators (banks) once their (derivatives gambling) scam was discovered, yet the bucket remains, and has indeed been re-filled, they now seem to be hoping to get away with creeping their wobbly economies through the door without getting a soaking on the way? For some reason those countries in the black (China, Russia?....) don't appear too keen on taking the hit with or for them...

All the REAL assets have gone into the hands of the new Oligarchy - The Central Bankers.

We sold it to them for their "funny money" and now they will have the last laugh!

(unless we nationalize their hard assets and reboot with a constitutionally backed monetary system)

We do still have the power to pull off a check mate - but Americans do not have the will to do so!

Moral of the story - don't trade real assets (land/metals/commodities) for monopoly money!

reply to post by wisintel


Be sure to get a good look...

Google Video Link

It used to be that only the exceptionally wealthy and businessmen who travelled a lot had credit cards, and they were quite hard to obtain for the average citizen.

Even mortgages were only approved after about 90 or 180 days of investigation of the applicant by the bank's loan officer, often including an interview at your work place, and with multiple personal and credit and work references required. If you didn't have the stability in your life, you didn't get a loan or mortgage, period.

These days, mortgages are approved by phone in many cases without even meeting the applicant, if the applicant doesn't qualify then they give the loan anyway at exhorbitant interest rates.

Credit cards are obtained by every Tom Dick and Harry and Harriett out there.

It's true that people used to actually SAVE UP to buy big ticket items such as cars and televisions. You couldn't save the money, you went without, period. No options, no choices, you just went without.

People were happy with what they had, for the most part. People may have had less, but they weren't up to their eyeballs in debt. Every single friend or family member I see that has all the latest toys are up to debt to the rafters, and usually beyond, and don't seem to realize how much trouble they're in, just so they can always have the latest iPhone, the latest, greatest 60 inch television, etc etc etc. People actually LAUGH when they tell you that they owe $50 K to their credit card companies at 29.9% interest per year.

One friend actually had to pull equity out of his house through refinancing in order to pay off nearly $100,000 of credit card debt between him and his wife, then less than two weeks later invited me over for a beer to check out his brand new Jeep Cherokee, bought completely on credit, no money down. He wound up in exactly the same position less than six months later, but this time owing another $100,000 to the credit cards, and this time had no equity to pay it off.

It's pure lunacy people. Unless it's a house (which you should have at least 20% down and mortgage no greater than 3 times your annual salary), if you can't pay CASH for it (or at least pay off your credit card bill at the end of every month COMPLETELY) don't buy it, period.

You don't need all the toys so badly that you spend decades paying off the debt. Save for a few months if you really need something, and buy it when you can pay for it up front.

reply to post by wisintel


Welcome to the world of interest.

Imagine a world where all money comes from a central bank and that bank LOANS the money out at interest.

So in this world, the bank prints off $100 and loans it out to you at interest - this is the VERY first $100 in existence. The very next day the head of the central bank comes knocking on your door demanding to be paid $100.10 that is, the original $100 + some interest. You shrug, give him his $100 back, but he's still demanding that extra $0.10.

Now, if you expand this over many decades, and realize that the bankers never come back knocking on the door to collect, you'll have the real world scenario and a sound understanding of why some people will NEVER be able to pay back their debts.

Watch that video Americanist posted.

I'll tell you where my money went... My children eat it, what they miss my husband and dogs eat.
The cable company goobles up a large portion, the electric company, the lousy health care plan takes some, insurance, property taxes, gasoline companies, the house payment. Since the recession the company took back bonus checks and raises. No more corporate travel. No more christmas bonus gifts. Did any one notice how food sizes shrank and prices rose for the items? People are selling their personal items at auction and downsizing their living places. My mother called me yesterday all upset that her 80 year old friend lost all her money in the stock market and was in financial trouble selling all her stuff....it is bad everywhere still.

Originally posted by frugal
My mother called me yesterday all upset that her 80 year old friend lost all her money in the stock market and was in financial trouble selling all her stuff....it is bad everywhere still.

It's not any better for a lot of people. You're mothers' friend is not alone.

However, she was "selling all her stuff" realizing that she didn't need it after all, and that she probably shouldn't have bought it in the first place.

I empathize, but you should only be putting money in the stock market that you are prepared to lose. Any financial adviser out there worth their salt would tell you that you need to diversify investments. Putting all your money in the stock market is just lunacy, even in good times.

reply to post by wisintel


GOOD POST!

GET IT YET?

There is no money because every dollar someone borrows they have to repay that dollar plus interest. The money is not there because it never was there, it was created out of thin air as debt.

If everyone repayed their debt there would be no money, but they cant because there is not enough money to pay the interest - it's all a scam.

First thing we need to learn is where money comes from. The cartoon below is very easy to understand and how I first started to understand the big picture.
introducing...

WHERE DOES MONEY COME FROM

In order to answer that question we must first understand where the money came from or in this case was created from.
Its called fractional reserve banking. We all know Banks make money by making loans, but did you know that banks make money by making money. Banks are allowed to lend money against the funds it holds as its deposits. So, if a bank has $100,000.00 it can lend $900,000.00 against it. Basically creating $900,000.00 in new money in the form of loans.
Now this money can only be created if someone thinks some new asset is worth that amount. IE: house, car, boat, etc. But when for some reason people don’t feel that those assets are worth that value and refuse to pay that much we have a big problem. We have what’s called deflation. Deflation is when the value of assets start to fall in value. When this happens the new money is now sucked back out of the economy in the form of foreclosures and capital right offs.
That is my best attempt to explain this phenomenon hope it helped. To get a better understanding of this I suggest you read up on how fractional reserve banking and the fed work.

en.wikipedia.org...

en.wikipedia.org...

At least US is better off you have 60.8 % and we in India have 78 % of GDP.

reply to post by eniranjanrao


... this is like saying: "Well, you're house isn't quite burning down as quickly as mine. You're so lucky!"
heh...

I hope this is an appropriate thread for this question.

It is clear we are borked in the future. I see people debating the possibility of deflation or inflation inevitably heading our way. But the truth is I dont know which is worse. As a regular guy, I tend to think of deflation being the better alternative because from my view Corporate America doesn’t change. I do not believe my pay would be cut if things got cheaper and so I would be able to maintain my current lifestyle.

But what would happen if hyper-inflation truly began? I see the topic of inflation or hyper-inflation brought up in almost every board I frequent, however I have never seen anyone address the real world impact if it actually happened.

It is my opinion that the business or corporate culture we have in the United States would not adjust for inflation. In fact, when gas prices approached four dollars, no one in my circle of friends was compensated in anyway, not to mention insurance premiums continue to go up, and still raises remain very low or non-existent. I took a 4k pay cut last year on insurance cost alone.

So if it happens, would we see companies recognize inflation and begin to compensate for it with much larger raises, or would it just spiral out of control, and more people become working poor? To me, inflation seem to have the spark that could create very real trouble (read violance) in the US.

One is going to happen in the future, I guess I just want to know which I should be pulling for if it has to be one or the other. Thanks.

the Trillion$ your graphic shows...is not actual asset worth money... the figures you see are the debt
left in the wake of 'Inflation'

Inflation is a factor that keeps the credit creation system running...
if we reduce the inflation factor in the figures shown, then the USA for example is in debt to the tune
of only about $1 Trillion in pre 1972 dollars.

built-in profits...built-in price increases, are all part of the ?free-markets?

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


sort of related: when the announcement by TARGET stores, that on Black Friday...
all flat screen TVs will be on a radical sales price...._> 42" for $298.... 32" as low as $199....

because they are overstocked by over a years supply of flat screens that us peons can aspire to...

these sales (at a loss) will be counted as ~Losses~ and add to the productive deficit in the economy
and not listed as profits... the CPI and government trade figures are also treated in these weird
ways by the economists...and produce all those ~Trillions in Debt~ assigned to the nations on your graphic



its all a game of arranging numbers & the ruling class taking their share before anyone else

I find in hilarious when I watch the news....

"The Nation debt has increased by however many trillions of dollars...."

"The US Defense budget has reached over however many billions of dollars..."

The people and the media keep arguing over how much money the country owes or is spending but nobody is asking who is cashing in the check.

All I'm gonna say is I would like to be on the receiving end of that debt.