Madeleine McCann: Vector Addition.

Shd read

Cuddle cat was on maddies pillow

The bed was never slept in

The top corner of the bed was turned down neatly

See the photo at dr Martin Roberts articles

Best

R3

just want to say merry christmas everyone all the best wishes

Originally posted by RocketIII
reply to post by ipsedixit

 

Might I ask if you are THE "Dr Martin Roberts"?

I haven't read through to the end of the thread, but I had to answer this right away. No, I am not "THE Dr. Martin Roberts", but I take the question as a compliment.

I think Dr. Roberts and I might possibly share the experience of both beings victims of Kate and Gerry's relentless media campaign promoting the search for Madeleine. Speaking for myself, I have to say that I was strong armed by publicity into developing an attachment for Madeleine and a very strong desire to come to her aid and solve the mystery of what happened to her.

Like virtually every child her age (at the time of her disappearance), she is such a cutie.

I think most people in the uk still believe they are involved.The weirdest thing for me is the fact they dumped a fridge,who the hell goes n holiday and takes a fridge away.

The chilling thing about all of it is the look on Gerrys face a mixture of "prove it" and wanting to start laughing.When my dog went missing I walked the streets for hours,yet they change clothes she applies makeup and does her hair then they go on a run.Maybe going jogging was the only time the 2 of them could "talk".

Did anyone else see the video took of them on the way to portugal,someone says "smile Gerry" he says "Im not here to f****g enjoy myself" and that was with a group of kids around them.

Personally, I don't believe that there was anything sinister going on or anything "lifestyle adventurous" about these couples. I don't think they were swingers or "young doctors in love", except that they were narcissisticly in love with themselves. Many would envy these young couples. They are well educated, well paid, attractive with nice young families and everything going well for them.

I envy them. I'm old, fat, a shadow of my own good looking youth with little money and only my brains and my hobbies for fun.

But I don't resent them. Good for them in their good fortune.

I think, though, that they fell prey to selfishness. To some extent, their children, though loved, were seen as a chore that it was nice to get away from, a chore that was sometimes terribly irritating. What young parent hasn't felt irritated by one's own loved children?

A newspaper columnist here in Toronto, Jim Slotek, I believe, once wrote something that I will never forget. He said, words to the effect of, "You don't know what it is to be a parent until you have heard one of your own children say, I love you and I hate you and mean it."

I think the same thing goes in reverse, at least in their thoughts, from parents to children.

Was it a moment of extreme irritation by a parent that led to Madeleine McCann's death? I'm inclined to think so. Maybe it wasn't like that. Maybe it was just a miscalculation by parents who really just wanted some relief from the daily grind of parenting.

The McCanns have kept pushing the search for Madeleine . . . in ways that don't make common sense. I'm afraid that they will have to live with the results of that push. People are now, thanks to them, determined to get to the bottom of this story. It is a matter of a lot of money, of politics and most importantly of a little girl that they, the McCanns, have thrust into millions of people's hearts.

The most important thing about following this case is Instinct.My sister has been a body language teacher for over 20 years,she said they showed every sign bar none of someone who is being dishonest.

I actually do think the most unpleasant rumour about this couple is the correct one.

I'm sorry if I'm missing something here, but the sniffer dog found no scent of death on Gerry's clothing, some of which was held by the police?

But traces of the death scent were found on Kate's clothes?

Might this point to someone other than Gerry carrying Madeleine's body from the apartment?

How likely is it that Gerry would have disposed of clothing that he wore while carrying a body, but they didn't think to dispose of clothes worn by Kate when she handled the child? Particularly since, that early on, they wouldn't have suspected that sniffer dogs were likely to be used in future.

I've read over this a couple of times and hope I'm not being obtuse, but this does puzzle me. Also, does anyone know how easy it is to wash the scent of death from clothing? Did Kate wash Cuddle Cat before it was sniffed by the dogs and fail to get rid of the scent?

Originally posted by berenike
I'm sorry if I'm missing something here, but the sniffer dog found no scent of death on Gerry's clothing, some of which was held by the police?

But traces of the death scent were found on Kate's clothes?

Might this point to someone other than Gerry carrying Madeleine's body from the apartment?

It is definitely interesting that no scent was found on Gerry's clothing. The only way that this would be possible, in my opinion, and given the basic outline of events as envisaged by people who think that Kate and Gerry are responsible for Madeleine's disappearance, would be if clothing of his, containing the scent, were brought home by him when he went back to England briefly, early in the story, to get photos of Madeleine for media distribution.

The clothing would have been left in England and different clothing worn back to Portugal. This would have been done inadvertently and simply have been a lucky happenstance, from his point of view.

RocketIII might be a better source of an explanation of this point, if that person is who I think it is (the Unterdenteppichgekehrt blogger). Is that you, RocketIII?

Also, does anyone know how easy it is to wash the scent of death from clothing? Did Kate wash Cuddle Cat before it was sniffed by the dogs and fail to get rid of the scent?

Laundry was done by Kate. RocketIII might know better when she washed Cuddle Cat, either before or after the July search conducted of their rental villa by the cadaver dog.

I understand that the scent is not easily gotten rid of, not even by washing. These dogs are extremely acute in their sensitivity to the odor left by dead human beings (Eddie), and human blood (Keela). They can detect these odors in microsopic amounts, sometimes weeks after the source of the scent has been deposited.

reply to post by ipsedixit


Thank you for the reply. It would have been fortunate for him if he'd been able to leave the same clothes in England.

I had a couple more thoughts about it:

Maybe he had to dispose of the clothing because it got badly soiled if he'd been digging a temporary grave

Possibly he'd arranged for one of his friends to walk around with a blonde child to give some credibility to the abduction story

A fascinating topic - thank you for all the insights you have provided.

Sorry, I hope that last line doesn't sound callous. I haven't forgotten that this is a tragedy for the poor child involved.

reply to post by berenike

There are a lot of possibilities in this case. I think that the most thorough effort to reconstruct the events surrounding the disappearance of Madeleine McCann has been undertaken by the blogger at:

unterdenteppichgekehrt.blogspot.com...

The Unterdenteppichgekehrt (Sweptunderthecarpet) blogger has given us an example of detective work, in the painstaking analysis of the rogatory statements, that is on the level of Sherlock Holmes or Hercule Poirot. It is really first class work. Scotland Yard or the FBI or the RCMP should sign this person up.

When I was at university, I read a book called The Decipherment of Linear B, by Michael Ventris. Ventris deciphered a species of Greek script that had baffled experts for years, through an outstanding application of logic to a fairly large data set with only few things known for certain. He did this in his head, when computers still needed forklifts to move them around and weren't available to him.

The Unterdeteppichgekehrt blogger had an incredible breakthrough in reading the rogatory statements of the Tapas 9 when he/she came to the conclusion that only one of them, Dianne Webster, Fiona Payne's mother, was telling the truth.

The reconstruction at the above link makes great and startling reading for followers of this case. This reconstruction may not be absolutely correct in every detail, but it does shed a huge amount of light on a hitherto murky sequence of events.

Originally posted by paperface
I think most people in the uk still believe they are involved.

Even if that were true, it still feels like those of us who believe the parents had something to do with it are in the minority.

It'd be a real shame if we couldn't get to the bottom of this because after all, a 3 year old child is caught in this whether abducted or murdered that night.

Canadaguy! You charmer you! Thanks, but of course I am not Johanna. More in due course - may as well say this, but I have been hot on this whole "affair" for eight weeks non stop, learned an incredible amount - 48 hours or so I was jumped within 120 yards of my home, I have paced it out, and have lost a £500 silver necklace, my wallet, my reading glasses were all busted up, and I sustained a very nasty bloody blow to the back of my head. I called the cops when I regained consciousness, and was hauled off for a two hour interview. Paramedic turned up at 3 am and confirmed no stitches needed - he did not wash or clean the wound, just basically ffffd off. I had the good cop bad cop routine, I felt like I was the criminal. I shd hasten to add I had been drinking for several hrs beforehand (it is kinda customary in the uk this time of year) - I sincerely believe I had "the frightened" put on me.

Not leat because I had been on contact with the Madeliene Foundation 3 weeks ago, and td the head Anthony Bennet that I had "information"...

Before I was "jumped" at circa 1am +++ I was given the CLASSIC honey rap treatment at my local pub. Approaced by the most stunning femme fatale (just my type actually! Brunette, late 20s, short hair, sophisticated, excellent conversationalist etc) - however Houston,

We have a problem...

I resemble Canadaguy ipse dixit on a bad hair day...

Ms fatale pumped me for info for 30 mins from 11pm onwards

I was by then quite "merry" but I smelled a feline sewer denizen at the 20 mon mark

By then she knew what I was working on

Her goon minders were at a table behind me, myself and kitty cat propping up the bar, and there were four of them

One woman

One guy that looked like an all in wrestler, ugly, scarred, six foot four,
Maybe 260 of pure muscle, bald, hooked nose

No mess with him type of bloke

The kicker

8 paces behind me, another guy , fit, suit/casual, would not sit down with the other three

Every time I glanced behind, he was looking at me n cuddle Kay and standing up, both hands on the table, all 4 pretending to talk to rack other

I was pretty inebriated but not stupi and still compos mentors

I thought at 25 mins time to have some fun with kittykat

I segued into, hey, you ever heard of a "honey trap"?

Instant ice cd I mean c o l d drop on vibes

Instant. Kk is a pro, v vv sophisticated English woman about town

28

Never heard of honey trap before!!!!!

Gimme a ffffing break

In for a penny, she continued rabbiting very professionally, but by now I was stone cd ffffing sober

I followed up

By the way I looked at the 4 goons behind me and as usual they were "all ears" but pretending otherwise

I said to kk, hey, you follow the news, yea

Yes.

Ever hear of kidon?

The room temp went lower than one of jimmy savile's corpses at the Leeds go he volunteered all the time for.

One second later an extremely S t r o n g hand curled itself around me left forearm and my stand up friend from the rear (MI5 call some of them "watchers" - they are the best of the best)

Anyway this chappies said extremely firmly and looked right into my eyes

"that's enough"..



Kk vamoosed,

The other party of four took haste



Last thing I remember before being jumped was hulk hogan on the bar, looking at me, as I spoke to the owner




Mr smith is the Irish guy that spotted Gerry McCann with an 80pc certainty carrying a toddler towards the beach


Do some research, he and his family have had "the treatment"

Maybe I'm wrong about my experience?

I don't believe in coincidences

Greetings alk

And sooty for bizarre iPhone spellings

Happy 2012 and I am praying for innocent Maddie tonight

Hi folks, just got in, it is very VERY late in the UK after New Year's eve....

OK

My last post

wanted to get it off my chest so fired it off via iphone

Never spellchecked it, just fired it off

Anyhoos whatever you thing if apple google and all the rest, I actually think the missive was twisted to be quite sinister, hey, what do I know about algos and key words etc (dont mention gchq nsa echelon carivore etc etc etc)

Funny

Just lookin at the 4 words typed above, apples iphone will take the piss, REALLY (they DO have a sense of humour) and # it all up


ok



here is what apple SAID i posted earlier, read on MacDuff and see the literal translation

I can't believe i am #ing doing this at nearly 6 am uk time, but i am exceedingly annoyed





iphone version

Canadaguy! You charmer you! Thanks, but of course I am not Johanna. More in due course - may as well say this, but I have been hot on this whole "affair" for eight weeks non stop, learned an incredible amount - 48 hours or so I was jumped within 120 yards of my home, I have paced it out, and have lost a £500 silver necklace, my wallet, my reading glasses were all busted up, and I sustained a very nasty bloody blow to the back of my head. I called the cops when I regained consciousness, and was hauled off for a two hour interview. Paramedic turned up at 3 am and confirmed no stitches needed - he did not wash or clean the wound, just basically ffffd off. I had the good cop bad cop routine, I felt like I was the criminal. I shd hasten to add I had been drinking for several hrs beforehand (it is kinda customary in the uk this time of year) - I sincerely believe I had "the frightened" put on me.

Not leat because I had been on contact with the Madeliene Foundation 3 weeks ago, and td the head Anthony Bennet that I had "information"...

Before I was "jumped" at circa 1am +++ I was given the CLASSIC honey rap treatment at my local pub. Approaced by the most stunning femme fatale (just my type actually! Brunette, late 20s, short hair, sophisticated, excellent conversationalist etc) - however Houston,

We have a problem...

I resemble Canadaguy ipse dixit on a bad hair day...

Ms fatale pumped me for info for 30 mins from 11pm onwards

I was by then quite "merry" but I smelled a feline sewer denizen at the 20 mon mark

By then she knew what I was working on

Her goon minders were at a table behind me, myself and kitty cat propping up the bar, and there were four of them

One woman

One guy that looked like an all in wrestler, ugly, scarred, six foot four,
Maybe 260 of pure muscle, bald, hooked nose

No mess with him type of bloke

The kicker

8 paces behind me, another guy , fit, suit/casual, would not sit down with the other three

Every time I glanced behind, he was looking at me n cuddle Kay and standing up, both hands on the table, all 4 pretending to talk to rack other

I was pretty inebriated but not stupi and still compos mentors

I thought at 25 mins time to have some fun with kittykat

I segued into, hey, you ever heard of a "honey trap"?

Instant ice cd I mean c o l d drop on vibes

Instant. Kk is a pro, v vv sophisticated English woman about town

28

Never heard of honey trap before!!!!!

Gimme a ffffing break

In for a penny, she continued rabbiting very professionally, but by now I was stone cd ffffing sober

I followed up

By the way I looked at the 4 goons behind me and as usual they were "all ears" but pretending otherwise

I said to kk, hey, you follow the news, yea

Yes.

Ever hear of kidon?

The room temp went lower than one of jimmy savile's corpses at the Leeds go he volunteered all the time for.

One second later an extremely S t r o n g hand curled itself around me left forearm and my stand up friend from the rear (MI5 call some of them "watchers" - they are the best of the best)

Anyway this chappies said extremely firmly and looked right into my eyes

"that's enough"..



Kk vamoosed,

The other party of four took haste



Last thing I remember before being jumped was hulk hogan on the bar, looking at me, as I spoke to the owner




Mr smith is the Irish guy that spotted Gerry McCann with an 80pc certainty carrying a toddler towards the beach


Do some research, he and his family have had "the treatment"

Maybe I'm wrong about my experience?

I don't believe in coincidences

Greetings alk

And sooty for bizarre iPhone spellings

Happy 2012 and I am praying for innocent Maddie tonight

OK, sigh, here we go, if anyone is whatsoever interested!!! Edited a bit for clarity.

Canadaguy! You charmer you! Thanks, but of course I am not Johanna. More in due course - may as well say this, but I have been hot on this whole "affair" for eight weeks non-stop, learned an incredible amount - [about] 48 hours or so [ago] I was jumped [mugged, an Americanese equivalent] within 120 yards of my home [that is my little addition, figure it out], I have paced it out, and have lost a £500 silver necklace, my wallet, my reading glasses were all busted up, and I sustained a very nasty bloody blow to the back of my head. I called the cops when I regained consciousness, and was hauled off for a two hour interview.

[Edit to add, pubs in the uk shut at 12 on Thursdays, i left my local at circa 1230, (and i went off to 2 other local pubs that shut at 1 am, for a "nightcap" (as you do, right? this time of the year???)

Paramedic turned up at 3 am (at cop shop) and confirmed no stitches needed - he did not wash or clean the wound, just basically ffffd off. I had the good cop bad cop routine, I felt like I was the criminal. I shd hasten to add I had been drinking for several hrs beforehand (it is kinda customary in the uk this time of year) - I sincerely believe I had "the frightened" [the frighteners!!!] put on me. [Similar to the SMITH family, from Ireland, see later, I have it from multiple sources that these fine folks have been scared to death for four years and all warned to "keep 'yer traps shut"...]

Not least because I had been in contact with the Madeliene Foundation 3 weeks ago, and told the head Anthony Bennet that I had "information"...

[Ding ding ding - big mistake, Anthony's emails and phones etc etc etc are tapped, by ???? enter = Carter-Ruck, the most powerful [il]legal highwaymen in the UK, who are now trying to reduce poor Mr Bennet to destitution and penury.

Step forward ADAM TUDOR (Carter-Ruck, Partner)

To recap, young master (his parents must be SOOO proud!) Adam TUDOR was hired.

(WHAT a #ing name, eh???????????????????? You couldn't #ing MAKE!!! It up!)

OK, friend TUDOR (geddit, Kings and Queers etc going back 100s of years, of course FORGETTING our current impostors are GERMAN (Saxe-Gothburg, Phil "The Greek" et cetera, who was actually a member of a very ardent youthful organisation that liked, hhhhmmmm, dressing up and strutting around in black shirts) - Hmmmm, we continue, somewhat like ex cyanide salseman and current POPE, Herr Rattzinger, Hmmmmm, perhaps both ex (ex=always, btw) participants were (maybe?) in an organisation that would (maybe?) upset the Knesset?

But I digress...


Before I was "jumped" at circa 1am +++ I was given the CLASSIC honey trap treatment at my local pub. Approached by the most stunning femme fatale (just my type actually! [And how the # did THEY figure out my 'type' - I don't just drool over any old broad that is NOT my 'type' - #, at my age in life i am #ing PICKY!


Anyways and anyhoos, ack ack ack, if some bastard wants to know your 'picky' habits, well, computers are like wine warehouses, the doors are eyes wide shut.

If you get my drift.


To be continued.

reply to post by ipsedixit

cops are dirty, especially investigators. I am not attempting to offer an alibi for the parents, but I can tell you from personal experience that investigators will make # up. Secondly, dogs are guided by their handlers, and in this country(US) they would be subject to brutal cross examination by any competent defense. So if your theory is riding on what the dog smelled, well that is weak as hell, for a myriad of reasons. The more credible evidence is the witnesses that observed someone carrying a child.

I applaud your excellent effort at putting this thread together, but I have a feeling that the police fogged this whole investigation up.

I signed up to the Maddy forum this year or last and it was most interesting to see the info available and to discuss the case.

I think Maddy was a handful in the house hold and with twins and a hyperactive child, the parents had their hands full. it seemed to me that Kate took the burden of the kids on her shoulder and the night of the "party" she did something that went horribly wrong. The place where blood was found reminds me of places a child would hide from their parents when in trouble. Kate and Gerry both being doctors knew enough about medicines to allow them to administer sleeping pills or similar to Maddy. The blood splatter could have come from a fall or a beating at the hands of the parents/parent and an overdose of sleeping pills could have cause the death of Maddy.

I say the parents were involved and Kate seems to be the most likely candidate for a person involved in the crime.

I've only had time to skim this thread, so apologies if this has already been covered.

Were the parents given a lie-detector test? If not, why not?

There's an awful lot gone on behind the scenes, and it's deeply distressing. I can't help thinking of the film, Man on Fire, which was deeply disturbing.

If those two are completely innocent, wouldn't they demand a lie-test, to exonerate themselves?

reply to post by Toffeeapple


That's the thing, they deny any involvement but don't participate in anything that could exonerate them, they act suspiciously, hire their own PIs, have friends who were in the previous Labour government who were quick to get on the case (funny, all other high profile missing child cases never had this amount of coverage and attention) and those who wish to get to the bottom of it including looking at the parents are ridiculoued as "nuts" and "headcases" by the friends and supporters of the McCanns.

To tidy up the iphone...

We have a problem...

I resemble Canadaguy ipse dixit on a bad hair day...

Ms fatale pumped me for info for 30 mins from 11pm onwards

I was by then quite "merry" but I smelled a feline sewer denizen at the 20 min mark

By then she knew what I was working on (in depthe MM research)

Her goon minders were at a table behind me, myself and kitty cat propping up the bar, and there were four of them

One woman

One guy that looked like an all in wrestler, ugly, scarred, six foot four,
Maybe 260 of pure muscle, bald, hooked nose

No mess with him type of bloke

The kicker

8 paces behind me, another guy , fit, suit/casual, would not sit down with the other three

Every time I glanced behind, he was looking at me n cuddle cat and standing up, [leaning over wiyh] both hands on the table, all 4 pretending to talk to each other

I was pretty inebriated but not stupid and still compos mentis

I thought at [the] 25 mins time [of the conversation/interrogation] to have some fun with kittykat

I segued into, hey, you ever heard of a "honey trap"?

Instant ice cold I mean c o l d drop in vibes

Instant. Kk is a pro, v vv sophisticated English woman about town

28

Never heard of honey trap before!!!!!

Gimme a ffffing break

In for a penny, she continued rabbiting very professionally, but by now I was stone cold ffffing sober

I followed up

By the way I looked at the 4 goons behind me and as usual they were "all ears" but pretending otherwise

I said to kk, hey, you follow the news, yeah?

Yes.

Ever hear of kidon?

The room temp went lower than one of jimmy savile's corpses at the Leeds GI (LGI Leeds General Infirmary) he volunteered all the time for.

One second later an extremely S t r o n g hand curled itself around me left forearm and my stand up friend from the rear (MI5 call some of them "watchers" - they are the best of the best)

Anyway this chappies said extremely firmly and looked right into my eyes

"that's enough"..

[ok edit to add, the chappie had NO idea what we were talking about as he couldn't lip read as my nack was turned to him - so if these folks were pros, they were either miked up, or kitty kat gave him an eyes signal or whatever they had preagreed upong for him to come over and break up the party...]

Kk vamoosed,

The other party of four took haste



[edit to add, the bar shut at midnight, i left at 12.25 or so and started walking home, and there is one last small bar very near to my home, which always shuts at 1, and i often stop for a nightcap if i am in the mood... i spoke to te owner, and as i did so i noticed the chap i describe below, sitting with one of his friends (another man), both having a drink and watching myself and the owner talking...]

Last thing I remember before being jumped was hulk hogan at the bar, looking at me, as I spoke to the owner

[i walk out and up a hill towards my home, very dark, ideal spot to mug someone, I had only got 20-30 yards from the pub when it happened, at the darkest spot on the road... they got my chain, got my wallet, busted up my reading glasses, but bizarrely did not take my iphone or bag i was carrying - trouble is, despite the darkness and time, there were still a fair few people out, making their way home, so if anyone spotted two me obviously robbing someone lying in the road, concussed, anyone would dial 999, so they had to ber very very quick...]


Mr smith is the Irish guy that spotted Gerry McCann with an 80pc certainty carrying a toddler towards the beach


Do some research, he and his family have had "the treatment"

Maybe I'm wrong about my experience?

I don't believe in coincidences

Greetings all

And sorry for the bizarre iPhone spellings

Happy 2012 and I am praying for innocent Maddie tonight