Raising children devoid of religious dogma

I was born into a Baptist home. We went to church every Sunday and I actively participated in church activity of one sort of the other until I was in my early twenties. I became sick of the dogma & church politics & theology overall. My wife was raised Catholic until around age 10/12...then from then on pretty much agnostic/atheist.

We have two children now, ages 7 and 5. They like to ask questions, and we always answer as truthfully as we can with the knowledge we have regarding the subject.

They have asked "Who/What is god?" - and we tell them that some people believe there is an invisible person that lives in the sky that created everything.
They ask "Where did frogs come from?" - we tell them that at one time there weren't any frogs, there were just little specks of things in the water that were like tiny animals and over long periods of time they changed and kept changing and some things became frogs, some became bugs, some became turtles...(not EXACTLY a perfect description, but it sufficed)
THEN they asked "What happens when you die" - we told them that your body stops working, and over time it turns back into the stuff that it's made of. Some of it goes into the water and feeds plants, some might get eaten by a bug, that will get eaten by a frog, that will get eaten by a snake, that will get eaten by a bird....
Now...the funny thing about this, to me, is that they seem to be fine with that. It didn't seem as if non-existence bothered them in the least bit. There was no fear, not even the slightest twitch of the neck, eye, or jaw that would indicate any uncomfortable feeling. They didn't ask "Well where do WE go?", they didn't say "What will we do when we're dead"...it apparently didn't leave any nagging thoughts behind - they haven't asked about it since. They understand death, they've had pets die - they've seen death - never human though, but death is death. When you look deeper - death isn't what it seems. It's simply a transformation of matter that has already been in existence for a very long time. It never stops moving, and it never stops changing - some changes happen in milliseconds, some take thousands or millions of years but the point is that it is a fluid action.
I'm wondering as I watch them wonder, if I'm not catching some glimpse of some secret that we've long forgotten and pressed into the back of our minds as we've slowly allowed the dogmas and teachings of others that would have us do their bidding were grafted into our thoughts until we believed it to be true. Have our minds been hammered and forged since birth by religious/spiritual dogma for so long that we've forgotten the entire essence of our nature? They know to be safe, and be careful - but that death does come to one and all. My adult mind is still confounded that they were totally at peace with it. And here I am, as time permits, watching battles between members on death and religion and science and evolution over and over and over - and I'm thinking about everything that I'm reading...but as I do, I'm also thinking about whatever was going on in the minds of those two little boys when they asked that one question...and they didn't hear anything regarding an immortal soul or an eternity in paradise or hell - I'm wondering exactly what that was in their minds, when they heard the truth, made them feel at peace with it.

Now you can say what you want - you can say it's childish innocence and they don't understand the permanence of physical death - but they do.

When they will understand the meaning, they will choose for themselves.

I was raised catholic and now am an atheist.

I tell my children very similar things to what you tell yours. They understand what death is and that we all came from a star.

I do not want my children indoctrinated into anyway of thinking. I would like them to find out things for themselves and to question what is told to them.

I am not a big fan of school and my children are home schooled, I think there is too much negativity and materialism running through schools to accomplish any sort of learning there nowadays.

I really would like to tell them the truth about Santa but every time I talk about it my wife gets so mad at me.

Kudos to you as we are raising kids the way they should be raised, with freedom.

Pred...

Most of us are patterned by social codes.
This isn't restricted to simply religion. Concepts of gender roles (though they exist) are pretty much also learned behaviors. Our nationality, our religions, our sporting teams etc are all learned behaviors to not only keep a social code of conduct, but more so to enable empowerment by a social group through a collective identity.
I think its great what you are teaching your kids, is there room for the spiritual ( not dogma)? Beauty of it is, we should leave it up to them to discover

reply to post by predator0187


We never started the whole "Santa" thing so we don't have that to contend with.
They DO have an unwarranted belief in the "Tooth Fairy" they gleaned from some movie and despite our best intentions and straight facts that "Mommy put the dollar under your pillow, not a fairy!" - they choose to believe the fairy story.

And to the one who posted right AFTER my first post - it would really fill your life with more meaning if you would read the entire post before responding. Thanks!

I myself have not raised my children with thoughts of fear on one side or the other. As I made sure that they are aware that thoughts in their mind can try to be controlled by both fear, and people. I have also been asked similar questions and have given them the answers that I wish someone would have told me at a young age, as I think that maybe my life would have been a bit easier.

There is no santa, easter bunny, or tooth fairy talk in my home as I made those things irrelevant as far as there being any truth behind them, as well as stories and his-story are a part of the human experience, and all to be taken with a grain of salt.

Ive taught my children that life can be a bit easier, when you are aware of the dangers of things you can see as opposed to things that you cannot. My children are not afraid of boogey men, or ghosts, and no that when told these things your imagination can make them very real.

My most important message to my children is that there are "2" sides to every story, and if you are able to learn to have an understanding that the story that some may say, may be outlandish, that it also very "real" to "them". I am happy that I grew up early enough to realize that truth is important and individualist thought is not scary, but a part of life.

S&F

Peace, NRE.

reply to post by sykickvision

Hi, sykickvision.

Raising children devoid of religious dogma

That IS a VERY good idea !

That's what we did with our 2 children, a girl now 37, and a boy 35.
THEY choosed/choose what THEY want !
We had nothing to do in their choices and we never will.

I could say that our boy seems neutral.
Our girl is on the Vedas of India.
What I like about it, is that there are "Vimanas" in that history !
( flying machines, man and not man made ! ) B-))

Blue skies.

reply to post by sykickvision


Oh the tooth fairy, that's a good one too. Santa is ridiculous to me but my wife loves the idea, she thinks in all reality it has nothing to do with religion and that it is just for giving. I just think that it is for corporations to make a ton of money for no good reason.

But, you can't fight every fight and as long as they're raised with respect and not with fear then they will be okay.

And tell me honestly, what religious person is not afraid of hell? It's built into the system to sin and if you sin you better be afraid. Not something I want to teach my kids. They should have no fear, of anything and only respect.

Pred...

["Have our minds been hammered and forged since birth by religious/spiritual dogma for so long that we've forgotten the entire essence of our nature?']

I was'nt raised "religous/spiritual dogma" at all in any aspect other than growing up in America and in fact the older I got the more I was beginning to ridicule anything God (especially Christian) UNTIL one night when as soon as I had begun to open a pocket size green Gideon NT that a woman had left on the kitchen bar a few days earlier but before reading anything, I heard an audible voice as if sitting on my left like a friend would that said my name then "I am Jesus I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish"-exceedingly awestruck I quickly stood to my feet turned towards the voice and said yes Lord

I admire your bravery in teaching your children about reality as you see it.

How easy it is to give candy floss answers to such questions, to convince yourself that they *need* that magical time and it won't harm them at all to lose it later on.

I think it's much better for a child to make a decision as an adult than have to rediscover reality from childhood stories.

I have already raised two children of my own, both taught as I see fit, free of religious dogma and lies, both readers and very knowledgeable in many subjects. My daughter manages a Bob Evans up north. My son is a master mechanic. My two step sons are getting the same, a good, full education on all subject matter, the true story of things, that they are Spirit, not human, and heaven and hell are facets of the universal mind. there is no God sitting up there who directs mankind and spanks us if we are bad sinners. No "saviour" is coming to save us. We have to save our own skins.

I was also raised a Southern Baptist, I went to Sunday school every Sunday and Wednesday (and of course the revivals) but as far as my kids go (Now 14 and 17 YO) I have decided to let them choose there own “Religious” beliefs and I will say that they do believe in a higher being …..One is leaning towards Buda and the other one is unsure….Maybe Darwin or God, only time will tell…..

I can't tell you how much I admire you (all) for this courageous action with your children! Bravo! Kids are amazingly intelligent and resourceful and your kids are no exception. My hope is that more and more parents will break away from the old stories that have been told to them in favor of telling them what we know.

I think the old story of heaven and hell puts a LOT of unnecessary pressure on children. I know it did on me. I was raised in a very religious household and I never knew when God was seeing what I was doing as a punishable offense or not... There were many times I was sure I was going to hell. I would never tell these controlling, manipulative stories to my children.

As an adult, I have dropped the religious beliefs and stories from my world. I can't help but think that there is something after this life, though... I sometimes wonder if I hold onto this "hope" of an afterlife because of the religious dogma that was pounded into me as a child. I want to believe that we all transcend to another plane of existence and carry on... but that's the only remnant that I carry from my religious indoctrination. And it's a spiritual rather than religious belief.

Anyway, as they say, mad props for teaching your children to think for themselves instead of believing the fantasies.

Coming from a 21 year old who grew up in a household similar to what you all are describing, I have thanked my parents for that freedom of thought every day. I did attend church a couple of times with a friend just to see what it was all about (I was taught not to disregard something until I at least understand it), and while I am not religious, I do understand the pull it has on people. I feel that this life style my parents gave me allows me to be more empathetic towards others' views and keep an open mind on all subjects of life. Just because I love science doesn't mean I'm not spiritual too. Just because I'm spiritual doesn't mean I can't understand where someone is coming from if they're very religious. It taught me to be able to see that "2'" sides to every story aspect of life. Keep doing what you're doing.

Originally posted by Rustami
... I heard an audible voice as if sitting on my left like a friend would that said my name then "I am Jesus I died for your sins believe in Me and you will never perish"-exceedingly awestruck I quickly stood to my feet turned towards the voice and said yes Lord

Yes there are a lot of claims out there of people "thinking" that they hear "voices" in their heads. Most of the time these "voices" are heard in the heads of people who then commit some HORRENDOUS crime because they claim these "voices" were from god who had instructed them to do it.

Anyone who is hearing voices in their heads need to get checked out by a professional ASAP before such folks "hear" something in their head that causes them to endanger others around them. Seriously, such a delusion is dangerous.

The best part of it all is, no matter what you do, they will do what they do. Its their world. Their mind. Doesn't matter if you believe in God or not, they will think for themselves. I am proof of this. I wasn't raised religious, but was given a bible growing up. We were told about God, but we weren't instructed to go to church or read the bible everyday. I started out as a solipsist, then embraced Atheism, and now all these years later I am a Christian.

Would that bother you if they did a 180 on ya?

Originally posted by The Endtime Warrior
Would that bother you if they did a 180 on ya?

I know your question is to the OP, but since I agree with him/her, I would like to say that IF I had kids and raised them without religion, it wouldn't bother me in the least if they decided to have religion in their lives. As long as they didn't push it on me. I am a strong proponent of religious freedom and I feel that indoctrinating children is AGAINST that freedom.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Star for that and I agree totally. Like I said, I am a christian and I am also a parent of a child who is 6. Do you think I've forced my kid with a bible and what not? NO. Im letting him be a kid. Rest assured, if he has questions, I will answer them, to the best of MY knowledge, as did the OP.

reply to post by The Endtime Warrior


We encourage our children to express themselves, and to seek things out for themselves. Quite often this causes a ruckus whenever a childs personal wishes clashes against parental authority. If they choose to follow the path a religious book takes them, then they have my blessing upon it. Personally, I find it hard to believe that when someone knows and has more of an understanding of the universe than what is commonplace, I would think that religion would be the last place they would find any sort of refuge and comfort.
A jest in conversation some time last year resulted in a comment being made about our oldest child (6 at the time) if he turned out later in life to be gay. My wife said, "All I want for him in life is for him to be happy" - and for a while, I had a serious problem with that. I never voiced that opposition, yet it nagged at me. And then once again, it dawned on me. Who am I to say how he lives his life, after my job as a parent is done? Would I love him any less? Of course not. Then what would it matter? It wouldn't. It wouldn't have mattered to anyone, but me. Although it's highly unlikely it would come to either of them suddenly professing an undying dedication to any god, the possibility can't entirely be ruled out. What would I do? I would do nothing. Their life isn't mine to live. I've explored that avenue already, I've done my research, I have literally "Been-there, Done-that"
I suspect that the blend of my over-analytical mind and their mother's staggering IQ, that in whatever paths they choose to take they will ask and inquire many question, leaving very few stones unturned.
We encourage curiosity, and discourage irresponsible behavior. We watch ants, and spiders, pincher-bugs and lizards. They have been told what is believed to be true regarding the origins, and ultimate destinations of these organisms. I would hope that they wouldn't cast truth aside to be led astray by what I believe to be a fantasy, but the more I think about it now, and how we all have our personal struggle to find truth and meaning in life...I think I would be more disappointed in them NOT giving religion a try than if they never did.

Originally posted by pplrnuts
Yes there are a lot of claims out there of people "thinking" that they hear "voices" in their heads. Most of the time these "voices" are heard in the heads of people who then commit some HORRENDOUS crime because they claim these "voices" were from god who had instructed them to do it.

you should hear about the winged Mighty looking angel?/cherub? a friend from Scouts and I had seen as a kids (@13) that was bright white all over even in the eyes(looked directly at me) which had a luminous glow like lightning, on what we think was the night the guy across the street had hung himself-I assure you I know precisely what my eyes saw and ears heard! also, just to make clear, it was'nt a voice in my head it was an AUDIBLE voice as if an invisible man was speaking to me

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.-1Corinthians12.3

I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.-John5.25

For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all, then all died-2Corinthians5.14

He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?” “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked. “I am Jesus-Acts9.4

for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow-Matthew28.2

Anyone who is hearing voices in their heads need to get checked out by a professional ASAP before such folks "hear" something in their head that causes them to endanger others around them. Seriously, such a delusion is dangerous.

suppose you would rather hear about little bug eyed creatures abductions or sightings?

(I think this is the most dangerous thing in the world) All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:but he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.-Mark3.28

If the world hate you, know that it hated Me first.-John15.18

Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.-1John3.14

and they plotted some scheme to arrest Jesus in some sly way and kill Him-Matthew26

they went out to lay hold of Him, for they said, “He is out of His mind.” And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, “He has Beelzebub,” -Mark3.21

(John and Jesus heard) a voice came from heaven: “You are my Son, whom I love-Luke3.22

the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him-1Corinthians2.14

But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
-Galatians4.29

had John beheaded in the prison.-Mark14.10

And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded because of their testimony about Jesus and because of the word of God.-Revelation20.4

And in her was found the blood of prophets, and of saints, and of all those that were killed on the earth.-Revelation18.24

(external link quote) CHRISTIANS – THE MOST PERSECUTED PEOPLE GROUP ON EARTH (by an athiest) There are now more than 300 million Christians who are either threatened with violence or legally discriminated against simply because of their faith – more than any other religion. Christians are no longer, as far as I am aware, thrown to the lions. But from China, North Korea and Malaysia, through India, Pakistan and Sri Lanka to Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Turkey, they are subjected to legalised discrimination, violence, imprisonment, relocation and forced conversion. Even in supposedly Christian Europe, Christianity has become the most mocked religion, its followers treated with public suspicion and derision.jmm.aaa.net.au...

keep in mind what happened to that Nation in history that everyone on earth is fully aware of

Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, “Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.-Matthew12.25

And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.-Matthew24.14

Beware of him(the Angel), and obey his voice, provoke him not; for he will not pardon your transgressions: for my Name is in him.-Exodus23.21

As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be thrown down.-Luke21.6

For the nation or kingdom that will not serve you will perish; it will be utterly ruined.-Isaiah60.12

He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son.-1John5.10

God did not send his Son to the world to condemn, but to save the world through him.-John3.17

when the time was come, God sent his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, to redeem them that were under the law-Galatians4.3

Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; and deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.-Hebrews2.14