Jacques Vallee: Wonders in the Sky, page 1
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reply posted on 9-11-2010 @ 03:34 PM by Kandinsky
reply to post by jritzmann
Given the 'consensual reality's' effects on my finances, Vallee's new book is gonna have to wait until Christmas at this rate...sigh...

Like anyone else, I've got mixed feelings about some of Vallee's work. Nevertheless, the guy has an unerring knack for making us think about things in different ways. Agree with him or not, sooner or later anyone interested in the UFO phenomena, high strangeness or anything else will bump into his ideas and find a new tangent or way of looking at the subjects.

I'm looking forward to the Paratopia interview with Vallee. Paratopia, Paracast, Dark Matters and BoA get a lot of airplay on my way to and from work. The 'strength' thing struck a chord...


reply posted on 9-11-2010 @ 04:48 PM by jritzmann
Originally posted by Blue Shift
Originally posted by jritzmann
That's because you're looking for an answer. Stop doing that - we don't know enough yet in the way of this complex phenomenon to hunt answers. We don't even know all the questions yet.


Come on, not even a little?


LOL...nope. Because where that leads? Theory becomes ideology. That's the problem with a lot of the UFO interested public - they want answers because it burns not to know. The aloe for that burn, is that you see what surrounds the phenomena, and more importantly, that the ideologues have been laid down since man first saw something he couldn't explain in the sky. You realize personally that items such as the ETH often applied to this subject - don't fit. When you actually recognize this, it's revolutionary to you, and then you see this bigger picture.

We got into discussion with Jacques about meaning ascribed by perception or relating the event - and this book doesn't just cover sightings - it also deals with abductions...that are clearly that.

You realize it's us (man) that has been trying to ascribe meaning rather than looking deeper, or at the finer points. For instance you read in the book about cylindrical objects moving slowly overhead releasing a mist - and after that, the Black Plague would erupt in that town (this is during the time of the plague). Most would say extraterrestrial population control. But consider that this is one report made by one person. This was his perception of the event. His way of ascribing meaning to the unknown.

In the end, this is all more complex than ET for many reasons. This is inextricably linked to us. And, one cannot remove the human element from the equation - we are perceiving it - yet it eludes.

You read this book and see that UFOlogy is still struggling with the same issues.


reply posted on 9-11-2010 @ 05:04 PM by Blue Shift
Originally posted by jritzmann
You realize personally that items such as the ETH often applied to this subject - don't fit. When you actually recognize this, it's revolutionary to you, and then you see this bigger picture.


Oh, I've read all of Jacques Vallee's books, and agree completely.

In the end, this is all more complex than ET for many reasons. This is inextricably linked to us. And, one cannot remove the human element from the equation - we are perceiving it - yet it eludes.


I still think a lot of this is because we haven't developed an appropriate vocabulary yet to frame the ideas. I've tried to explain to people my notions of perceptions shaping reality, and working beyond Euclidean geometry to include a point of view in the mix. But it always starts to veer towards sounding like witchcraft or Theosophy. It would be nice to come up with some better ways to describe what we're talking about in the UFO field so we don't all sound like hippies tripping out.

You read this book and see that UFOlogy is still struggling with the same issues.


Well, after more than a half century, it certainly hasn't gotten very far with the whole aliens from space notion. And the glimmerings around the outside edges of the field associated with such things as remote viewing, extratemporal states during abductions, descriptions of craft that are "alive" and linked with a pilot's consciousness to travel, time shifts, and so on, seem like much more fertile ground for exploration than Little Green Men.


reply posted on 9-11-2010 @ 05:43 PM by FireMoon
Originally posted by Blue Shift
Originally posted by FireMoon
Western philosophy is traditionally concerned with contrasting one grid with another grid, and amending grids in hopes of finding a perfect one that will account for all reality and will, hence, (say unenlightened westerners) be True. This is illusory; it is what we Erisians call the Aneristic Illusion. Some grids can be more useful than others, some more beautiful than others, some more pleasant than others, etc., but none can be more True than any other.


Well, if that's the case, then, my Western desire to push toward actualizing some of the concepts tossed around in the UFO fringes is also True. Different, but True. I suppose us Westerners could sit back and admire the natural balance of the universe and do nothing, but we can also push things to unbalance, which is also completely natural, and see what happens. Since neither is "wrong" or "right."


Maybe and i could be totally off course here, it's worth remembering the whole "Where does th atom go when you are not observing it?" debate. There's a sense and this is where i cannot understand either debunkers or believers that we only seek to confirm that we already suspect/expect. There are times when i want to ask people. Do you ever consider what the chimps in the zoo think of us?

I remember a few years ago we were at our practice place and one members dog was doing his ritual peeing on the fence posts around the property. My friend says.."he thinks he owns this place you know"..I replied.."In his world he does own this place, he has no other concept of ownership past what he perceives as his territory as a dog"

Furthermore, from the dog's perspective that farm land was probably as large a territory as he could possibly ever wish to own or even conceive of, to us we view it on a wholly different scale.


reply posted on 9-11-2010 @ 07:43 PM by The Shrike
reply to post by jritzmann


Thanks for posting the book, I just put a hold on a copy with the NYPL. I always enjoyed Vallee's books which are 180-dregree from the crap popular UFO authors write.


reply posted on 9-11-2010 @ 08:12 PM by The Shrike
reply to post by jritzmann


From 1957 when I was introduced to UFOs by an Air Force captain until the early '60s I was a UFO enthusiast but not a believer, I just kept an open mind about the phenomena which was being witnessed by others. I developed a certain mind set composed mainly doubt due to the early history of UFOlogy from the 1950s which spawned fake after fake (Adamski). I read every book that was published but was never satisfied with the unbelievable contents. Hearsay, no evidence.

Then in 1965 I read Jacque Vallee's ANATOMY OF A PHENOMENON: UNIDENTIFIED OBJECTS IN SPACE - A SCIENTIFIC APPRAISAL followed by PASSPORT TO MAGONIA: FROM FOLKLORE TO FLYING SAUCERS. I went through a mental transformation/expansion. I never accepted the ETH and Vallee dropped it as well.

All off the wall theories such as Vallee's interdimensional hypothesis are less accepted than the bolts and nuts theories but considering what we've discovered about other dimensions of sound and color it's not too far off for other dimensions of existence. I'm sure that one human future accomplishment is traveling backwards and perhaps UFOs are one method.

Vallée has suggested a multidimensional visitation hypothesis. This hypothesis represents an extension of the ETH where the alleged extraterrestrials could be potentially from anywhere. The entities could be multidimensional beyond space-time, and thus could coexist with humans, yet remain undetected. Vallée proposes that there is a genuine UFO phenomenon, partly associated with a form of non-human consciousness that manipulates space and time.

I find that much easier to accept than if there are beings in the UFOs that they're from other parts of the universe and are coming here in crafts. Some UFO videos show UFOs accelerating beyond human's ability to withstand the acceleration. But some videos also show UFOs dematerializing and materializing.

Where do they appear when they dematerialize here?
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