Freemasonry, secret or not?

I am acquaintances with a couple Masons. It's no secret, they gather at the lodge and everything. But they do know how to keep their secrets that they teach.

reply to post by RuneSpider


Masons and Illuminati are not always the same group.
My ex BF was a mason. Period. He piled rocks on top of one another. But his father was in the Lodge of Masons. He got my nephew into the Shriners Hospital program so he could be treated for a club foot.
My sister could not have got him in without his help. I am indebted to the man.

And no I wasn't talking to you. I know you are an athiest - says so in your Avatar.
I was speaking in general terms about the group.
Crunchy Christian on the outside with a Creamy Satanic Center.

Originally posted by rusethorcain
Crunchy Christian on the outside with a Creamy Satanic Center.

Some of us do not believe in either one.

I seen a busted rusty s10 going down the road with two freemason stickers on it. Probably of the 33rd degree

Originally posted by rusethorcain

Originally posted by RuneSpider

And how would you defend the innocent and hapless against a small but formidable faction of devil worshipers within this group of ostensibly good and God fearing men?

By defending Freemasonry against them myself, obviously.

What, you mean they're hiding in Freemasonry? Don't be ridiculous.
It's the other side spewing lies,hatred, fear, paranoia... all the things that would make a being like Satan happy to be a part of.

I mean this pussified group of Masons does not have the integrity honesty and guts to make their convictions known. They go to Church. They pretend to be God fearing when they are anything but. Nothing wrong with being an athiest. I don't even care if you want to worship the devil.
Don't try to talk out both sides of your mouth when you are speaking to me though.
If you believe in the devil and practice black magic, say so.

This is not an atheist.
It is still a theist because the devil is a deity.

I am sorry, just exactly who are you? You know exactly *WHAT* about me or any other mason on this board yet you speak as if you have intimate knowledge about what we believe spiritually. I have built my reputation on integrity. I know who I believe in and I know what I don't believe in. While the mantra here is Deny Ignorance, you seem to be very anti-establishment. Here is a tip for you, next time you have a thought, let it go.

Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by rusethorcain
Crunchy Christian on the outside with a Creamy Satanic Center.

Some of us do not believe in either one.

Then you are

Illumi-naughty.

Admit it your secrets are not that of masons, but the secrets of the annunaki. Ra or marduk, son of Ea of Enki, and brother of Enlil. He who from heaven came to earth. You are gloryfing that which Babalon was destroyed for. I also want to chime in about Crowley. He was a known satanist who bragged about sexually abusing children to steal their innocence. He believed by stealing their innocence it gave him immortality. Ever wondered why so many priests assulted little boys? Oh yeah why are only white men accepted in the lodge? By the way I am white.

reply to post by TheLoneArcher



S&F Brother.

You have revealed the beauty of the Craft with the simplicity born of a true teacher. Regardless, there will still be those that say we eat babies.

Thats ok. If their baby gets sick we'll still be there to help them when no one else can or will. Thats just how we roll.

I've often considered what makes us a "secret" society. The only thing I can guess is (from personal experience) is all of the "hidden" sybolism in our lodges and ceremonies. If one only stops and meditates on these symbols they open like a flower that was waiting for someone to take notice of it.

I had a brother that one time explained Euclids problem. I truly wish that I had either taped it or written it. It was amazing in its depth, beauty and simplicity. Were any man worthy of the 33rd, that brother would have been. He was amazing.

Reading the works of other Brothers (Pike), Morals and Dogma is so amazing so as not to not be put into words. I can read a page and it seems as if Brother Pike is speaking to me on current events. A truly amazing man.

Its so secret that you can buy this book right off of the shelf either brand new or worn and tattered in a seconds store.

Secrets? Eyes to see, and Ears to hear I guess.

Its been nice to visit with you. God keep you and yours.

The prima donna masons do no wrong. How's the gang stalking going for you? Don't give a mason a break.

www.youtube.com...

ive studied the occult for decades. one of the reasons i joined the masons was to gain their secrets in proper form, even tho i knew most of them anyway just by reading published books (duncans, morals and dogma, et. al.) here is some of what i have learned, from the masons and other occult sources.

secrecy- this seems to be the biggest stumbling block for haters. "oh, you wont share! wah!" the secrets started out to keep members safe. back in the day, if you didnt see things like everybody else, you caught a nasty case of death. speculative masons deal in moral stories based on operational masonries science and numbers. some of these allagories have leaked out into common parlance like "busy as a bee" or "on the level". also the purpose of secrets is simply because everyone just isnt smart enough to understand symbology. as the tao says "when hearing the words, the dumb laugh, the midling pause then laugh, the smart pause."

think of this. the aa has 12 steps. what if they said, we will tell you the 12 steps to sobriety, but only if you keep it secret. if you cant keep the secret, how can you maintain the will to stay sober? you can find the steps online or in books, but to join the group, you must keep the secret. masonic secrets are the same way.

masonic purpose- to make good men better. masons, using allagories based on construction, try to provide a path to personal and societal growth. most religions give a rough framework on how to be a good person, masons actually provide you a path to follow. so long as you believe in a higher good, and seek strength from that good, nothing in masonry will conflict with it. "god helps those that help themselves".

holy book- the holy book in the center of the lodge is based on the majority of the community. i have heard of the upanishads or koran being used instead of the bible, tho the bible is present (basic masonic stories come from the christian bible, as christians founded the org, but the morals are found in all sacred texts). in india the lodge is called the magic house, because all faiths join together and get along inside.

two otherwise opposite men, through the bond of masonry, realize that they are the same and are striving for the same goals. that they are human first, everything else second. they treat each other honorably and with decorum. stories are told how during the civil war, masons from opposite sides would care for the other, then release them. yes they tried to kill each other, but they wouldnt be cruel to one another.

crowley- take his knowledge, but leave his example. he was kicked out of every club he joined, even the one that he created. a mental genius, a personal louse.

satanic- the founders were masons. were they satanic? how can something that strives for the good, by what ever religious path you choose, be evil? its merely complementary.

conspiracy- a man hires another because he is a mason. another because they were in the same frat in college. a third because they are in the same church. no difference. shared experience always plays a role. as for the nwo, the masons will get right on that once they organize the spagetti dinner to raise funds for it.

the elite are the elite. not all ceo's that are part of the bilderburg group are masons. the only thing all of the elite have in common is power, plain and simple.

hatred of masonry is much ado about nothing.

reply to post by stormson


Thanks for the info. But surely, the Illuminati (and their Agenda21 - population culling through murder, direct or indirect, etc) and the alleged masonic wish for the good of society, are mutually exclusive?

Or perhaps they are all part of the same distorted belief that they know best what is for the good of society and intend to impose that on society without disclosure (because of the secrecy) and without the consent of said society?

What would be lost by transparency? If masonry is as good as you allege, why keep it so secret. Why the secret handshakes? Why not simply wear a badge. Wearing a badge would cut through the widespread belief that masonry is corrupt and takes care of its own above all else - such as in a court of law, or in appointing political positions.

Why not be transparent, declare you are a mason through a badge, for example, and let the world see your integrity?

reply to post by wcitizen


how many times have you seen a shriner badge or masonic square and compass on the back of a car? or the square and compass ring? how much more of badge do you want? forehead tattoo?

Originally posted by TheLoneArcher
reply to post by Dr Cosma

 

You are correct, it is. It is also, in my opinion, bad Masonry. Yes, Masons are there for mutual help, but only when the Brother is in distress. By awarding a fellow Mason a contract simply because he is a fellow Mason should not be tollerated. Unfortunately, like all institutions, there is always latitude for abuse. You quote is one example of that.

edit on 8/11/2010 by TheLoneArcher because: Spelling spelling and............................spelling

But the problem is, that abuse seems very widespread. What does freemasonry do against corruption of members? Because honestly, it doesn't seem to be working.

reply to post by wcitizen


any more rampant than frat brothers hiring other brothers? or church members other members? or vets other vets? face it, mutual experiences will always play a role in the hiring of others.

Originally posted by stormson
reply to post by wcitizen

 

how many times have you seen a shriner badge or masonic square and compass on the back of a car? or the square and compass ring? how much more of badge do you want? forehead tattoo?

Well, you know, I wouldn't go so far as to say a tattoo on the forehead....and I think you get the spirit of what I am saying, even though you use sarcasm.

Instead of secret signals, hand signals etc, through which, for the most part, only other masons can recognise each other - which is divisive - why not make it open, so everyone knows where they stand in any given situation.

In the workplace, for example, IMO all masons should be known, that would prevent what is well known to be widespread masonic 'nepotism' - which is actually abusive of non-masons.

If I were to find myself in a situation of a court of law, in dispute with someone who is a freemason, I would want to know whether the judge is also a freemason......for the same reason.

The ideals of masonry, as presented at length in an earlier post, are excellent - BUT, that is not what many people experience. It is my honest belief that corruption is widespread and 'brotherhood' too often means 'nepotism' and 'collusion'

Why the need for secrect signals?

If masonry is so wonderful, why not open it out, let everyone benefit by seeing the wonderful people you become when you become masons?

Please believe me, my questions are genuine. I'm not here to attack or disparage, but to to have a frank conversation. I have the highest regard for any group which sets as its values high standards of honesty, integrity, respect for all, compassion and kindness. But honestly, that is just not my impression of masons in generally in society, and my belief is that secrecy breeds mistrust.

Originally posted by stormson
reply to post by wcitizen

 

any more rampant than frat brothers hiring other brothers? or church members other members? or vets other vets? face it, mutual experiences will always play a role in the hiring of others.

More rampant? I don't know, and I don't know what you mean by frat brothers. As I am sure you are aware, however, one is normally expected to disclose family ties, close associations in many such situations. Does it go on between members other groups? Yes it does. But, as I just said, there are attempts to avoid that happening by declaring interests or bias in many situations. I don't know who is a mason and who isn't in any given situation and masons don't seem to be included in the list of interests one should declare....but my honest impression is that yes, it is more rampant amongst masons than many other groups.

However, if you insist that masons strive for high levels of integrity, that should surely mean that it happens less or very infrequently amongst masons - which clearly is not the case.

Originally posted by stormson
reply to post by wcitizen

 

any more rampant than frat brothers hiring other brothers? or church members other members? or vets other vets? face it, mutual experiences will always play a role in the hiring of others.

And you didn't answer my other questions.

second

reply to post by wcitizen


seems we are going in circles. masons id themselves all the time, by rings and car badges etc. the secret handshakes are no different than that of college frats. its part of the fun! nepotism runs rampant in everything. part of the same country club, frat, church, vet, etc.

judge masons on their actions, just like christians. some are good, some not so much. your analogy about the trial. what about if they went to the same lawschool, or are members of the rotary club, or have kids in the same school? it all applies.

seems your issue is not with the nepotism so much as the secrets that we hold from you as an outsider. its easier to be a mason than it is to join a college frat. yet both have secrets.

either way, in the end, being a mason will not ensure you get the job, its only a boost. first you must be qualified.

Originally posted by stormson
reply to post by wcitizen

 

seems we are going in circles. masons id themselves all the time, by rings and car badges etc. the secret handshakes are no different than that of college frats. its part of the fun! nepotism runs rampant in everything. part of the same country club, frat, church, vet, etc.

judge masons on their actions, just like christians. some are good, some not so much. your analogy about the trial. what about if they went to the same lawschool, or are members of the rotary club, or have kids in the same school? it all applies.

seems your issue is not with the nepotism so much as the secrets that we hold from you as an outsider. its easier to be a mason than it is to join a college frat. yet both have secrets.

either way, in the end, being a mason will not ensure you get the job, its only a boost. first you must be qualified.

No, my questions are several, and it seems to me you are to some degree skirting the issue by saying others do the same, therefore it's ok for masons.

Perhaps you are not aware of the very real concerns many sincere people have about masons? If not, then that is an obstacle to discussing this.

If you are, then this is an opportunity to really address some of the questions with someone who is not nere to disparage but to explore.

No matter. Perhaps you are limited in what you can say by your secrecy vows. In any case, I understand from your post that corruption is rampant in masonry - which is what my impression is too.