Irreligion in the United States

reply to post by davidgrouchy


Haha, I've never seen that video of Richard before, it's a doozy.

I don't think you're trying to prove anything here, you're doing a good job of producing an interesting perspective on the issue.

How do you think the world will... co-exist with the vacuum of 'mindspace' created by the absence of theist blind conviction?

Rev.

Very nice OP! Good job, The Revenant.

I think there will always be SOME people who hold onto religion and then there will be people who claim a religion, even though they don't practice, but I agree that it will become a minority and decrease in numbers as the generations pass and science discovers rational explanations for more and more unanswered questions.

I don't think the end of religion will bring 'peace on earth' or anything - people will still be greedy, power-hungry, fearful and ignorant, which will contribute to strife all over. But religion won't be the vehicle they use to fight other people anymore.

reply to post by Romantic_Rebel


Just four days ago you were Jewish... Now you're atheist? How is anyone to take you seriously? I know I don't.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
The day we stop believing in something will be the begining of the end.

The only excuse for thinking that atheists "don't believe in anything" is willful ignorance. A VERY simple Google search reveals that atheists have many beliefs. They just don't have a shared set of beliefs like religions do.

Already the world is full of psychos, imagine a world where no believes in an afterlife....total chaos.

So... if you didn't have a belief in an afterlife, you'd be a psycho? Are you saying that Christians and other religious folks are barely sane, only because of their belief in what happens after they die? If not for that, they'd be raving lunatics? I guess it's a good thing we have religion, then, to keep all these would-be psychos at bay, huh?

I guess I'm just a lucky atheist who just happens not to be whack-o. :shk:

Have you asked yourself why your are an atheist?
Why, because you saw it on TV?
Or did you meet the scientist in person and he proved to you there is nothing when you die?

Atheism isn't about not believing in an afterlife. It's about a lack of belief in gods. Some atheists (those who don't believe in a god) DO think the essence of a person continues after this life. They hold that belief. Amazing, isn't it? The Center for Spiritual Atheism

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


You do know it takes a while for a person to convert to Judaism? I'm an Atheist and I will always be an Atheist. Yes I was considering Judaism Yet! I thought it would be simple.

Originally posted by Romantic_Rebel
reply to post by Benevolent Heretic

 

You do know it takes a while for a person to convert to Judaism? I'm an Atheist and I will always be an Atheist. Yes I was considering Judaism Yet! I thought it would be simple.

With the utmost respect, I'm confused.

How can you be an atheist yet consider joining the Jewish communnnity?

Rev.

reply to post by The Revenant


I had my reasons to.
My own reasons.
haha.

reply to post by Benevolent Heretic


Thanks but your reply tells me nothing I already know.
Im not saying atheists are psychos lol
But you cannot ignore the fact that most of the 6 billion people on Earth need something to believe in.
Others are simply just not educated enough.
If suddenly all the religions came out and simply said "there is no God", wouldnt you think there would be a problem?

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
Thanks but your reply tells me nothing I already know.

You first post says different.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
But you cannot ignore the fact that most of the 6 billion people on Earth need something to believe in.
Others are simply just not educated enough.

That is not a fact. I can't speak for the other 6 billion people on earth and I don't think you can either. There are many reasons that people choose to have religion in their lives. No doubt some of them just need something to believe in. But others have their own very valid and even 'logical' reasons.

I'm not sure who you're saying are uneducated.

Originally posted by Dr Cosma
If suddenly all the religions came out and simply said "there is no God", wouldnt you think there would be a problem?

Yes, THAT scenario would create a problem, but we weren't at all talking about something sudden happening. There was no mention of all the religions coming out and saying "there is no god". I even said this would happen "as the generations pass". That's very different than an announcement made by all religions.

Atheism isn't usually something people "suddenly" come to. It's the result of a process of questions and answers one asks to satisfy their own curiosity. I know, you already knew that, too.

reply to post by davidgrouchy


How is he on your side? He just said that science is interesting and that if you don't you can go do something that involves an expletive.

How does that have to do with 'no religion = we're going to have a Muslim president and Sharia law!'

reply to post by The Revenant

The Revenant,

Satan is leading the evolving away from the True religion to any false ones each finds to his liking to fall into. True Christianity will take a severe beating from the "world" from here on out, but it can't be killed. The world will be set on fire by the coming Great King when He comes, may be a few yrs., and all the false ones will be done away with. ( doubt it it goes past 5 on the yrs. ) Read -

2Pe 3:10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

People don't want to believe that but the top of the Mount Moses was on and met God is still blackened and glazed to this day. It wan't nuclear fusion that did it.

Truthiron

reply to post by truthiron


Thanks for that Truthiron.

I'm sure you mean well, but everything you just said then sounds like the sort of thing someone with a mental illness would say. I'm not knocking you, I'm just saying that you sound like a weirdo saying things like that. To put it bluntly.

I hope that one day you discover freedom. Good luck!

The Revenant.

reply to post by The Revenant

What a beautiful world we will live in when the below chart turns white.

When that below chart turns white, and there is no religion, we will still find ways to kill each other, belittle each other, steal from each other, deny each other's rights, etc...

No religion or lack thereof will ever overcome the human capacity for ignorance or hatred. We must abolish it ourselves.

What WILL happen when that map turns white? The people whose religion convinced them to give to the poor will just not bother, and the homeless will just starve that. much. more.

edit to add:
DISCLAIMER: I know everyone is about to freak out and put words in my mouth, so let me get this out of the way... I acknowlege that athiests are capable of morals and will also be charitable. But there will no longer be any spiritual mandate.

From a UK perspective it's considered REALLY bad form to ever bring any sort of religion into political debate, the two things are just not mixed here.
The UK is a heathen place in general though, the official statistics would have you believe it's a Christian country, but I can;t remember the last time I met a natural born Brit that had any hard convictions about religion at all, unless you want to count atheism as a religion which i do not

reply to post by The Revenant


Humanity grows spiritually all the time in accordance with God's plan for us. Call it spiritual evolution if you like. The role of religions is to facilitate this but when religions fail to keep pace with our advancement then religious beliefs decline. This they are doing right now and it is a good sign. It is up to religious leaders now to take their heads out of the sand. One of the worst things in practice now is the Christian "dependency" upon sin. They talk of sin so much that it would seem that without it the basis of their beliefs would evaporate. Human beings no longer need to be ranted at that they are bad and can only find forgiveness by supplicating themselves (with a preacher's help of course) before God. We all know the stories. Let's move to the next phase of learning. Christ will return in due time and give us instructions for new beliefs which we should be well advised to follow. Some will not however. They will remain where they are and stagnate in ignorance.

tt

Originally posted by BobbinHood
What WILL happen when that map turns white? The people whose religion convinced them to give to the poor will just not bother, and the homeless will just starve that. much. more.

That's an interesting thought, but I *think* I disagree. Are people really only giving because of their religion? That would surprise me. I would think that people give because THEY think it's the right thing to do and their church or religion facilitates it. I know I find a way to give all the time without a church or religion.

I'm not at all sure that a "mandate" is what makes people reach into their wallets. If it is, that's a SAD statement about people... I guess I have more faith in people than that.

Originally posted by trailertrash
reply to post by The Revenant

 

Call it spiritual evolution if you like. The role of religions is to facilitate this but when religions fail to keep pace with our advancement then religious beliefs decline. This they are doing right now and it is a good sign.

This is an intriguing idea of man's spirituality outgrowing religion. I can definitely see that happening.

One of the worst things in practice now is the Christian "dependency" upon sin. They talk of sin so much that it would seem that without it the basis of their beliefs would evaporate.

I absolutely agree! "Dependency on sin" is a great way to say it. And you're right. It is the basis of religious belief. After all, if we didn't think of ourselves as "sinners" who need forgiveness, we might see ourselves as beautiful, whole, loving beings who are GOOD and deserving as we are! What an upset to religion around the world!

Great discussion!

We are fighting for world peace here, or the beginning steps to it at least, right?
If you are an atheist, I would highly recommend you re-format your plan to attain this very righteous goal that I stand shoulder to shoulder with you in.
I raise an objective question:
Can the world gain peace through any form of attack? Does attacking bring the lack of it ?
You have to put world peace above being an atheist right?

You must (seriously) know that its not fair to everyone else if all the religions go around putting what they **believe** above living in a harmonious world with our fellow man.
but, how can you yourself hope for a more positive outcome when you yourself are going off of that same concept? Do internet verbal hostilities, finger pointing, and name-calling ever help either side get one step closer to world peace, or an evolutionary way of thinking? Both sides say they are the paths to both, yet both sides do everything they can to attack another, inevitably pushing us away from what we all want!

whether you believe in God or not, you're still human, you still know right from wrong, and you yourself decide when to choose it. Therein lies the problem and its solution.

Whenever a human holds a static belief over a fluid, conscious beings head, and scrutinizes him for believing something else, he is a fool.
Even when I am confronting those who would holster the belief of racism or any other obviously destructive belief, I must remind myself I can not scrutinize or point my finger at this human being (even in my head) for if I do, I am adding to the hostility in some form, and can not truly aide them in seeing that their belief is not above another man. Even if that belief IS BEING BETTER THAN ANOTHER MAN.


With that being said.....



From my understanding of most the worlds religions, they seem to be evolutionary thought systems which were established to create harmony amongst the species. I do not believe EVERY message in any religion to be pure (I only can rate 'purity' on it's intentions and literal effects towards all others, intentions and effects must be positive for all equally)
However, I also know that not one humans message is going to be completely pure, indeed *HUMANS* (and to effect a good number of messages in any of the worlds religions) ARE corrupted or misunderstood. We misunderstand ourselves, for we each have corruption in our thought systems, otherwise you'd only bring utter happiness always (and still make sense!). I think that is what most people want to do, and others just won't admit it to themselves, but you are happy making others happy, and being able to verify it to them. Therefore it would seem the natural state of ideal existence is purity. Of course though, no human is without corruption, we can simply not maintain it at this state of evolution. However, this is not bad, the corruption we each have is simply a lack of purity, a lack of what we collectively want, and it is only in a quantitative amount, not qualitative. We all are the same level of good and pure, but we can not all maintain this state forever. Would it be a step forward or backward in evolution to immediately and ultimately forgive another for a lack of purity he has had, for the better of the species? Yes, it will be on an individual level. The biggest one wouldn't be forgiving something like Hitler, for most of us it would be forgiving each other throughout our daily routines and talks.

Every sane human wants to do good, or wants to believe his cause is just (good). The problem isn't how good of stuff you are capable of, the world doesn't depend on that, good is on our side, no matter how small. It is how often you are good, and how able you are to forgive.

It is bigger than religion (put the afterlife aside, just for a second.):

Do not attempt and read a book claiming to teach purity, without first determining what purity is in your own mind, rationally. Nothing will go right if you try to.

Definitely don't establish a church that sleeps in the same bed as the government either, they're both far too young to know better.

Originally posted by davidgrouchy
The day after all religion is erased from America
an Islamic president will be in office and declare sharia law.

What is more likely to happen:

The day after all religion is erased from America, a Zionist Rabbi will become president and declare Zionist law.

Karl Marx and Zionism

*As a side-note, Samael Aun Weor was not against Socialism(see: POSCLA and The Social Christ) or Spiritual Humanism. He did however point out the Klipothic or Qlipothic aspects of materialistic communism and secular humanism*