F-35B Lightning II video, page 1

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Topic started on 6-11-2010 @ 01:05 PM by I B Dazzlin

The F-35 is a supersonic, stealth, 5th generation fighter. It has a short take off and a verticle landing. I think this is a pretty cool fighter and they say it is much easier to control than a Harrier. I wonder if it will see much use from the military?
Lockheed F-35

YouTube Link

edit on 6-11-2010 by I B Dazzlin because: Added a link

reply posted on 6-11-2010 @ 01:08 PM by C0bzz

It's extremely late, way over budget, and has been criticized by people for having poor aerodynamic performance (apparently these people also haven't heard to fuel fractions either) as well as poor stealth performance (one of whom is a failed mobile phone engineer (and owns competition to the F-35 in Australia), one is senile (he also criticized the F-22 for its aerodynamic performance), and one was fired for his views (and also has a history of making things up, like Aurora), go figure). In my opinion though, they could of solved these problems and improved upon stealth and aerodynamics by going with two separate aircraft types (one STOVL, one CTOL and carrier) because there had to be a compromise when designing something for both STOVL and CTOL users. It remains to be seen how successful the F-35 is in the long run, so far it's been very controversial.

edit on 6/11/10 by C0bzz because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 6-11-2010 @ 07:31 PM by Tayesin

A wonderful piece of machinery no doubt, but the cost over-runs and delays are putting members of the JSF program in uncomfortable positions. Here in Oz we have had to purchase Super Hornets.. well, refurbished F-18's from the Boneyard to fill in the gap between the decomissioning our F-111's and obtaining the F-35 JSF.

Further to this I found something interesting from the Australian perspective, in that Israel had been offered the F35 JSF before we here in Oz get our order filled depite the fact that we are major partners in the project.

Space Wars

I did have other web pages bookmarked in relation to this but seem to have deleted them recently.. ahh the joys of getting old and senile.

Anyway, I think it shouldbe a problem for my government since we won't get any F-35's until around 2018.. and yet Israel will get them 3 years earlier even though they are not members of the Joint Program.

reply posted on 6-11-2010 @ 08:05 PM by thebozeian

Just a couple of problems with what you said Tayesin,

Originally posted by Tayesin
A wonderful piece of machinery no doubt, but the cost over-runs and delays are putting members of the JSF program in uncomfortable positions. Here in Oz we have had to purchase Super Hornets.. well, refurbished F-18's from the Boneyard to fill in the gap between the decomissioning our F-111's and obtaining the F-35 JSF.

The Super Hornets were purchased as stop gaps after it was decided to retire the F-111 10 years early, however they definitely are NOT refurbished boneyard hulks. They are brand new latest spec birds, 12 of which are being wired up for later conversion to EA-18G "Growler" configuration.

Further to this I found something interesting from the Australian perspective, in that Israel had been offered the F35 JSF before we here in Oz get our order filled depite the fact that we are major partners in the project.

Nope, thats quite incorrect. We were A). Offered to participate in the program long before Israel. B) We haven't actually placed any order to fill yet, just made some sort of commitment to sign an order for 14... maybe?, next year. We are not really a major partner unless you count chucking in $150 million which is absolute peanuts when you consider the size of the ever increasing development budget alone. Britain is the only one that can be considered a major partner and even their share is a a small fraction in comparison to the total.

Anyway, I think it shouldbe a problem for my government since we won't get any F-35's until around 2018.. and yet Israel will get them 3 years earlier even though they are not members of the Joint Program.

First, apart from the fact the Israelis once again get favored status and jump the queue and will be getting their jets essentially free courtesy of the US taxpayer (and no doubt the cost will be passed on to the rest of us) it isn't really a problem, there aircraft will be riddled with problems that early in the program so fine they can have them. And second, based on current and possible future slippages nobody will be getting aircraft in 2015 anyway.

edit on 6-11-2010 by thebozeian because: quote fwd slash dyslexia confusion!

reply posted on 6-11-2010 @ 08:48 PM by thebozeian

reply to post by C0bzz

Nice to see you are still APA and ELP bashing C0bzz, despite the fact that much of what they have predicted over the last 5-7 years has turned out to be correct and I suspect more to come. Sorry mate I often like and respect your views and in the past have said nothing but I disagree strongly with your attitude to them and your historical support for the JSF program.

Having personally spoken to all 3 people you are referring indirectly too I have to say your comments apart from being a bit below the belt are not representative of who they are, what they stand for and for at least 2 of them a somewhat one dimensional overview of their background and skill. At least they are comfortable debating the subject with politician and private citizen alike, answering critics and putting their argument on the public record. Unlike the whole LM/DoD JSF juggernaut that issues nothing but pointless technobabble to clueless press reporters, Powerpoint demos and empty promises to equally empty Govt and military suits and then refuses to directly address it's growing list of critics, and the programs growing list of problems. All the while calmly asking for more time and money, whilst white anting rival domestic and foreign alternatives even to the point of some of its suppliers vis a vis the F-136 alternative engine.

I certainly agree that there should have been at least 2 separate programs but one of them should never have been the STOVL variant. Further the USN's original wish list should have been the starting point.

LEE.

reply posted on 6-11-2010 @ 09:11 PM by Tayesin

reply to post by thebozeian

Hi,

Thanks for the corrections. I wasn't aware the F-111's were retired 10 years early, as I've been under the impression they were being retired around the timeframe that has been played out so far.

New F-18's.. do they still make new F-18's? ...Okay.. just did a bit of reading to find that the Super Hornet is a different aircraft that were initially introduced in 1999 and are currently in service. So thanks for the heads up which brought me to do some more research.

See, now you offer me something to go research again... the contract and how that is being put across by the departments involved. On one of the links I lost recently was a discussion from the departments involved from Australia and it spoke about us being offered the F-22 Raptor instead of waiting for the JSF.. and of course our men in the know said "No"... dumb move on their behalf I think... unless they were thinking with their future Budgets.

I've also been under the impression that we are equal partners in this project with other nations.. which is why I used the word "Major Partner". And I could swear I read we have placed orders already.. so it looks like I need to do more research to get up to speed.

And I agree the earliest aircraft going into service are bound to have problems.... just seems to be the way things go for us with our military purchases.

Thanks for the information and corrections, I appreciate them.

Edit to add the links I found for info.. and a quote from Defense News....

In November, Australia became the first of the eight JSF partner nations to order the warplane, announcing a 3.2 billion Australian dollar ($2.9 billion) purchase of 14 F-35As, along with initial training and support infrastructure. These are the first of 72 aircraft the RAAF plans to purchase under a combined Phase 2A and 2B of the NACC project, code-named Air 6000.

Defense News 2010

edit on 6-11-2010 by Tayesin because: to add a link

reply posted on 6-11-2010 @ 09:36 PM by UmbraSumus

reply to post by I B Dazzlin

I believe this documentary charts the competition between Boeing and Lockheed for the contract to build the Joint Strike Fighter.

Battle of the X-Planes