Malevolent or Benevolent? The BIG Alien question...

A little fun, frightening, and hopefully thought inducing speculative discussion for a Saturday moning...

As it's plain to see, the producers of the new movie "Skyline" are sponsoring some of the forums on ATS. Having considered all the recent commentary (that's all it can be after all) by the "big thinkers" regarding the possibility of what the intentions of aliens who finally make contact with humanity might be, this movie hits me right between the eyes (after you see the movie you'll get the pun).

Not long ago the brilliant Stephen Hawking predicted that the likely intentions of any visitors would not be to "save humanity" from itself or, enlighten us with amazing new technologies, rather, it would be take our resources, all of them, including US.

The basis for this hypothesis, for the most part, is based on human history. When our early explorers came across a new found (to them) civilization they typically over powered them, enslaved them and stole their gold. In some cases (commercial slavery) they "stole" the people and hauled them back to their homeland to be sold as slaves to that population.

I don't know about you but I find it a little hard to assign despicable, early human behavior to what would have to be a very technologically advanced species/race of beings. Humanity has gotten beyond this deplorable behavior (for the most part) because we realized that it is not only "wrong" (another human construct), it just isn't practical or effective.

Going in a destroying/stealing the resources of new found territories, especially the human resources, leaves you with a one time gain. After your first haul there is nobody left to continue producing the resource. If you make peace with the new founders you have the opportunity for trade (both ways) and a continued supply chain for the resources you covet.

A civilization that has advanced to the point of inter stellar travel would have gone through a similar evolution and learning curve if one can assume that intelligent life on any other planet would probably evolve as it has here on Earth. I know that's a stretch but, we are talking about something we have absolutely NO data on, so it's just likely as not.

Let's assume the above is correct for the sake of this thread.

Seeing "Skyline" has brought to mind somethings I hadn't considered before when thinking about the plans a "visiting" alien race would have for dear mother Earth and us lowly humans...

Agreeing that the aliens evolved much like we have (only a lot further technologically), it is logical to think that they would be benevolent and looking for new galactic friends. Even if you take into account that there could be several different species/races, one would think that war was long dropped as a total waste of resources and life.

Or would you?

Taking humanity's plight into consideration, what if one of the terrible figures of our history succeeded in taking control of the population? Say, for example, Joseph Stalin had managed to wipe out the west before he died and the USSR was the dominant super power on the planet the last fifty plus years AND Stalin's tactic of wiping out any and all dissidents was carried on throughout that entire time.

Through sheer violence and the fear of sheer violence they had managed to get people to focus on nothing but technology, space exploration and conquest. I know this is a stretch to our human logic because of human nature but, remember, we are talking about "what ifs" here.

So, a few hundred years down the line, say, in 2410, we have mastered travel between the stars and have built great ships to explore and conquer with. How would that brand of humanity treat a population that was not up to our technological prowess? I imagine we would bomb them into submission, take what we wanted and move on.

So that's one possibility of how a species/race could evolve and end up as a space faring, conquering, horde...

In "Skyline" the "visitors" have made no attempt at communication, no demands have been proffered, they just start taking everyone who succumbs to their bizarre "light". The very premise, while similar to the treatment mankind endured in "War of the Worlds", is a most intriguing one. The first astonishing thing (to me at least) is they seem to have enough of an understanding about the human body to have developed a means to take over the fight or flight instinct and, just about every other brain function, via a light beam.

That "light beam" indicates an intricate knowledge of the human physiology. Where would these intrepid conquerers have gained such knowledge? The only possibility would be through direct study, or, the "visitors" are human/humanoid themselves.

Taking a look at the former, abductions come to mind, looking at the latter, the scenario I spelled out above comes to mind.

I guess the possibility there are life forms out there that need us for food is as likely as any other wild guess about the myriad variations of life the universe may have nurtured into predominance on planets far away, but, it's so foreign to what our experience has been it's hard to fathom, or is it?

Technically, WE need "US" for food. That hamburger, salad, or awesome piece of fish you ate yesterday is (or now, was) a carbon based life form. How big of a stretch is it to imagine some brutal, space faring, humanoid race that has thrown "fine dining" aside, as a waste of productive time, and opted for the "Soilent Green" approach?

If the above were the case, do you think we'd have any chance? Do you think there would be opportunities for negotiations? Would there be any dissidents who are repulsed enough by the wholesale gathering of human beings from planet to planet, only to be turned into human peanut butter?

Would there be any intellectuals left in a society like the one I've described above who wonder what their people could learn from their dinner if only they had avoided slaughtering it?

I have to say that the premise of gathering your food by completely consuming all the resources on every planet is truly not a "best practice" no matter how advanced your technology is. This leads one to wonder if they are smart enough to have "breeding farms" on board their ship for the possibly long intervals between finding planets with the resources needed?

While the breeding farms would answer the need for a continued supply of nutrition, they are also a huge liability from a security stand point. I, for one, would not be happy about producing children to adorn the plates of my captors evening meal.

There's a whole universe out there we know very little or nothing about. The odds are we aren't the only ones living in its vastness, who else is out there and what do they eat for dinner?

Springer...

Im of the opinion if any alien race desired to take over the earth and it's resources they would have done it already. I'm sure they are watching us and intend on making sure we don't destroy ourselves. When we reach a certain technology level and advancement of reason they will show themselves and welcome us into a sort of "galactic council" if you will.

Hey Springer,

I do not think that we would be able to defeat these aliens. The best we could hope for in such a situation would be to reduce the profitability of their venture, perhaps destroy some of their capital goods.

This means that heads of state would have to order the launch of nuclear weapons or other weapons of mass destruction onto their own cities, in the hope of destroying their technology (capital goods) and reducing their possibility to make good on their investment (by killing their harvest).

At the very best we might inflict enough damage that they will be unable to engage in such a venture for some time. Perhaps our policy of self annihilation (literally a 'scorched earth policy') could even force them into the red and their creditors will begin confiscating and liquidating their goods - they might not have taken into account that we would do such a thing and so may not have accounted for it in their business plan.

We've seen the aliens; so imagine what their repo men would be like....

*This policy of self-annihilation would increase the value of the remaining humans, so with the liquidated harvesting technology bought at rock bottom prices, an enterprising alien might be able to make a decent profit by purchasing the technology and holding it for a few hundred years until the human population begins to grow again. This could actually be a good thing for those remaining humans as this entrepreneurial alien would probably protect his harvest from others as it grows back up to profitable levels.

reply to post by Exuberant1


Wow, that's a unique way to look at it. I've never considered the scorched Earth policy as a possible advantage for humanity.

Springer...

reply to post by Springer


Hi!

I always enjoy this topic!

My first thought (regarding the motives of our ET’s) was “a little of A and a little of B”

I do believe that most of the ET’s out there are likely Benevolent/Neutral (Neutral in that they won’t interfere one way or the other).

I base that mainly on the “if they could have destroyed us they would have already!” argument.

But still just like there’s bad humans here...I’m sure that there must be Alien races out there that, while maybe not necessary evil...could possibly pose a threat to the human race. (Ie. If they’re hungry!)

Very thought provocking post Springer and i for one cannot wait to see this movie.I am of the opinion that any ET invasion for malevolent purposes and agendas would depend on two main motives they would have;


1.Hit and run= taking as much resources ,including us,animals ect until they hit the next habitable planet they come across or know about.

2. Invasion= for the sole purposes and agenda of "slavery" or long term stay, prolonged recycle agenda, accumulating and storage of as much resources as possible, slavery controlled population to provided constant recycled resources.

hat "light beam" indicates an intricate knowledge of the human physiology. Where would these intrepid conquerers have gained such knowledge? The only possibility would be through direct study, or, the "visitors" are human/humanoid themselves.

I would like to add one more to the list from your external quote above if i may, ABDUCTIONS, what better way of accumulating understanding of human physical and physiology strengths and weaknesses.

reply to post by Springer


When you walk past an anthill and step on several ants by mistake probably not even noticing are you being malevolent or benevolent?
Any advanced race can clone for food, from a efficiency perspective why attack a planet to harvest humans when you can just grow them just the way you want them. The resources needed to round up billions of people keeping them alive for a time just makes no sense to me. What is it that they like variety? Are they culinarily ambitious?
I think they came here a long time ago and left and we are now trying to retrace the path of our previous history, which is starting to point in that direction.
If your mom took care of you from birth to say 5 years old, then just vanished, someday wouldn't you want to know more about her. I 95% believe aliens came, they did whatever, then left, 'Poof'. Yeah, maybe they come back now and then to get something or look at what they started but they left at a critical point in our history as to not interfere with how we deal with other cultures. It seems to me if they were here and if they left, they did it before our separate earthbound civilizations started to mingle. Just like it's ok to affect an individual person versus a large group. There intent was to infiltrate individual societies not globally connected civilizations. What for? I do not know.

Originally posted by Dantas
Im of the opinion if any alien race desired to take over the earth and it's resources they would have done it already.

I always think thats a very naive way to look at it.

I think aliens are real, and most are Malevolent. We cannot answer why they do the things they do, or what are we for, but i think your point that is always brought up is wrong.

Always an interesting discussion this one.

I agree with the idea that any given alien race, like the human race, is likely to be neither benevolent or malevolent but made up of entities which fall into both category. Much as I would like to think that technological advancement and spiritual advancement go together, based on my experience with humanity I think it's more likely that the more domineering and ruthless entities in a race are likely to take control and power over said race.

My point is that, even though there are probably benevolent aliens in every alien race, the likelihood is that it will be the malevolent aliens from that race that are the ones running things, and therefore they are the ones we're most likely to encounter.

I also disagree with the idea that 'if aliens wanted our resources they would've wiped us out by now'. I think it's entirely possible that humans are the resource, and are best harvested from a safe and controlled living environment. Farmers don't go out and slaughter all of their cows so they can get all their steak at once. They keep the farm running so they can continually harvest. No reason aliens wouldn't want to do the same.

Even if humans aren't the resource, it would be far easier to make the humans harvest that resource for you - unaware that they are doing so - than it is to raze an entire planet and harvest the resource yourself.

Those are the two main arguments I think of when people present the 'if they wanted our resources they would've taken them by now' argument.

reply to post by TheStev


I still think your making aload of presumptions.

I think your thinking too much like what we think. I think when humans think in these threads, or answer these questions, for some reason, people want to think in utopian ways. I think people think in naive ways when dealing with this question.

Good thread by the way op, and will look forward to any of the great replies as i am sure there will be.

Originally posted by andy1033

Originally posted by Dantas
Im of the opinion if any alien race desired to take over the earth and it's resources they would have done it already.

I always think thats a very naive way to look at it.

I think aliens are real, and most are Malevolent. We cannot answer why they do the things they do, or what are we for, but i think your point that is always brought up is wrong.

I disagree, I think it seems a relatively plausible theory when looking at the world around us today. And when I say looking at the world around us, I mean in regards to sightings of unexplainable phenomenon, something that is most certainly occurring to many people on a regular basis.

Whether what's being seen is alien in origin, who knows, but when assuming it is then it's not any stretch of the imagination to wonder and question why they haven't already come down and did what they wanted to do (assuming they're "bad") since they’re present already.

Not that I personally believe that if they're here already, they would've come down at all, but i think it's a theory which holds strength still and shouldn't be disgarded in anyway..

reply to post by TheStev


While I agree that any race/species is likely to have bad actors and good actors, it seems to me that the bad guys never win in the long run. They tend to squander resources, piss people off in general, and attract enemies like honey attracts flies.

Admittedly, I don't have any more clue about what's possible than anyone else does, and, I am basing my beliefs on human history which could be utterly worthless as a comparison/template. What seems "universal" to me could be absolutely meaningless to another.

Springer...

Springer -

I believe that ET's would be good, bad, and everything in-between.

As far as an ET race actually contacting us - I think they would be either benevolent or neutral. I say this because if we were dealing with hostiles, it would have been over already and we wouldn't know what hit us (unless you want to go for the reptillian/human slave-race theories - in which THAT would be messed up beyond words).

And even if there are hostiles that want to confront us face to face and take our resources - why not go for the other millions of planets that most likely exist? There's no way that we are the only game in town with the Universe's stockpile of rare materials.

I really think (sometimes) that our ego is showing when we say things like, "If ET finds us, they're going to wipe us out (ahem, Stephen Hawking)". Why??? What makes US so special? He's basing it (as before mentioned) on past HUMAN history. Past human history that was even less technologically advanced than we are now.

I swear - that man is a rocket scientist, but when he says crap like that, it makes me wonder.

But this is all just what I "think", of course. I'm probably no more correct than the next man...

Hello, The following is just my opinion which is still open to influence as we grow more aware and piece this puzzle together.

I believe at some level humans are of great value to the aliens who are or may be overseeing us. I believe the grays are a worker bee species most likely carrying out the wishes and research/experiments of another species who is in some way involved with our development/evolution. Maybe the Nordics, not sure.

I think they couldn't care less about us individually or as sentient beings but rather see us as containers that carry valuable genes, dna, traits, emotions, bodily nervous fluids, souls? or what ever else they are interested in.

I think there is great interest, by them, in our mental capacity at higher levels. Some may call this spirituality but it has more to do with higher applications of our consciousness and mind. Our capacity for connectedness or group consciousness or telepathy, or dimensional or time manipulation, who knows. I do get the feeling that we are related to them more than we know. I don't think they are a threat to us collectively, however I would hate to be abducted.

reply to post by andy1033


I tend to agree with you and the mistakes most make on this site with humanizing alien intent. But we do know that all living organisms have a purpose to reproduce and survive.

. . . And to harvest Earth for resources when you have mastered interstellar travel is pointless there are more abundant quantities of everything on Earth somewhere else in the galaxy like a moon sized diamond or a alcohol based nebula. Saying there is a resource here and only here is like saying life is here and only here.

One thing that goes against all your arguments is.

If time travel both ways exist and i think it does, and et would have it. It therefore makes reality useless, and our being here means nothing. So if et knows this, why would they even need to wipe us out?

Reality is far more complex than we know, but ask yourself if time travel exists both ways, your life and mine means nothing does it not, and if aliens had this tech, surely why would they care?

Personally i think they are malevolent and there is plenty of evil things they can do to us, without taking us out of existence.

Originally posted by TheStev
Always an interesting discussion this one.

I agree with the idea that any given alien race, like the human race, is likely to be neither benevolent or malevolent but made up of entities which fall into both category. Much as I would like to think that technological advancement and spiritual advancement go together, based on my experience with humanity I think it's more likely that the more domineering and ruthless entities in a race are likely to take control and power over said race.

My point is that, even though there are probably benevolent aliens in every alien race, the likelihood is that it will be the malevolent aliens from that race that are the ones running things, and therefore they are the ones we're most likely to encounter.

I also disagree with the idea that 'if aliens wanted our resources they would've wiped us out by now'. I think it's entirely possible that humans are the resource, and are best harvested from a safe and controlled living environment. Farmers don't go out and slaughter all of their cows so they can get all their steak at once. They keep the farm running so they can continually harvest. No reason aliens wouldn't want to do the same.

Even if humans aren't the resource, it would be far easier to make the humans harvest that resource for you - unaware that they are doing so - than it is to raze an entire planet and harvest the resource yourself.

Those are the two main arguments I think of when people present the 'if they wanted our resources they would've taken them by now' argument.

Some good points.

Its like this perception of invasion or prison slavery i feel.There is nothing more effective than a prison or invasion that you cannot see,taste hear or smell, in other words, the invasion could be through a gradual ,prolonged and hard to prove abduction agenda, knowing full well that people claiming it will be effectively ridiculed as the science of that race condemn it, pay no real attention to it by any scientific organisation . Slipping in and out of our reality by means that we cannot at this present time in our current understandings fathom or begin to comprehend, this could involve nanotechnology way beyond our present understandings and the usage of advanced understandings of inter dimensional realities with advanced occult understandings.

reply to post by AnteBellum


I think the most important part of human existence is the sexual energy we produce. Sexual energy is the life force, and the most important energy there is probably. This is why you hear secret societies always focus so much on sex and there energies, like masons wear those aprons over there genitals etc...

I think we are here for this creative energy and nothing else.

We all are told and played into thinking sexual energy just means sex, when it does not, the secret societies, see it as far more.

Just like in the matrix films, i think the batteries and thing they symbolise is just your sexual energies of everyone. I think thats the energy the groups above us want mostly, no other energy we produce means much.

I think trying to ascribe motives to an unknown intelligence is probably, not Stephen Hawking's strong point. In fact here are probably very few scientists who have a clue.

If they come from out there.... the chances are we will be dealing with bio mechanical devices with an AI that is programmed to take into account the cultural imperatives of their creators. I'd guess that would include minimal interaction with the locals and a watch and report back attitude over a long term study period.

If they come form "The Universe next Door" then they could have just walked in and taken over any time they probably chose to but, for their own reasons simply haven;t and are happy to stick with dicking us about and having a bit of a giggle as we give our ape like impersonation of consternation.

The true question is actually this. Can intelligent being develop technology and travel the Universe and lack the *god spot* inside the brain. The implications o that are huge. Without the God spot, its hard for us to even comprehend how their society might be structured. it could be one that has , very much of a hive mentality. it could be they study us because the concept of beauty on a visceral level via an emotive relation is something completely new.

Could there be, for instance, an intelligent species that has no reflective thought? How would that work in terms of of the dynamics of social interaction?

If on the other hand they have the God Spot there's a good chance that they might see us as cousins or even as part of the sentient machine of the Universe. To destroy us would be to destroy the key to an understanding they might well need.and,not only that, to God spot would imply a certain empathy for us as a species.

I posted this in the thread about abductions. What if the God Spot that allows us to move between worlds, according to all Shamanic traditions is what the *Greys* are harvesting the chemicals that are produced inside our brains for their own use as they can distill it down to allow them to move through the various dimensions at will? As mad as that might sound, I'd say, it's w holly more ,likely scenario, or something equally as arcane, than some Galactic Corporation moving in and setting up Earth ALC to strip us of our minerals etc etc. Why? well what do we have you can't mine from a billion other worlds that are totally uninhabited?

That's not to say there aren't those more advanced than we are, but socially way behind us. Maybe they have an imperative that drives them out into the stars to survive as a race as their own world is subject to regular and huge natural disasters. We could bump into those who think slavery is still morally acceptable.

reply to post by K-PAX-PROT


With advanced technology why bother with us with slavery, we have to be controlled physically and mentally. I would much rather create a bio-mechanical organism or robot or bio-organism. Do you see how long it takes to train one of us, go to McDonalds and give them odd change, the whole store nearly goes haywire!