Muslim challenge to tuition fee interest charges

Muslim challenge to tuition fee interest charges

www.bbc.co.uk

Muslim student leaders say changes to tuition fees in England could breach Islamic rules on finance, which do not permit interest charges.

(visit the link for the full news article)

So, the Muslims are kicking off about the tuition fee hikes but are the British people in general?

Most of the people I know in this country moan and groan about this cut, that rise, this axe and never do a damn thing about it...

It has always been difficult for poor people to get to uni but these rises will make it even harder.

The Muslim leaders are the only people trying to do anything about it as far as I know.

Shouldn't we all be pissed about this?

Saying that though, most new graduates can't get a job at the moment anyway!

www.bbc.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


While I feel sympathy for anyone kvetching about rising costs and unfair usury by banks...

The simple fact is that Islamic "law" means NOTHING in the West. When in Rome do as the Romans and all that. If the Islamic people are offended by these kinds of things then they have the right and ability to move to any country that follows Islamic or Shariah law.

In the West we will not do so.

~Heff

reply to post by Hefficide


I agree. However, my point is, at least they are saying something about the tuition fee increase. The people who are most affected are the British citizens and we aint doing squat about it.

Maybe we should be at least complaining ya know?

Religious exemptions are nice. I can't pay these fees, it is a violation of my freedom of religion! It's a bit better than Jehovah's Witnesses denying blood transfusions to their children, isn't it?

I agree with you. Not because of the islamic factor, but the future of a country is in its youth, and if they can't afford to go to a good college or university, then they're not going to be able to afford to do what they would have otherwise liked. There needs to be more solidarity between the students and students to be for the cause, not on a religious level, but on a real one.

reply to post by SmedleyBurlap


Screw religious exemptions, this will affect every British youth coming to the age where they could go to University.

More people should be kicking off about this. You gotta hand it to religious folk, they are on the ball when it comes to things like this...

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes


So, the Muslims are kicking off about the tuition fee hikes ....

No.

According to the article their "complaint", if you will, regards the Interest charged aspect ... which apparently presents a situation which goes against their faith and religious beliefs.



Hmmm....
*paraphrased*
ye shall not enter into any arrangement nor agreement which entails paying interest to another

... might be on to something there.

well they can promote their Islamic laws in their own bloody country, this is the UK, if they don't like or want to follow our rules or practices they are welcome to pick-up sticks and go somewhere else.

The UK has the finest laws in the world (Well here in Scotland anyways), Shariah law has no place in the UK, as a previous poster has stated when in Rome, can you imagine if westerners went to Iran and started this nonsense, we would be jailed or thrown out of the country.

Wee Mad

Doesn't the existing system have fees, charges and interest? student loans etc?

So is the new fee structure any different? or simply more expensive?

if it is no different (bar the sums involved) does anyone know if this is a continuation of the previous claim of a breach of their religion or some thing new?

As I feel at a loss to understand the difference..which could simply be my ignorance of the topic,

The word "Riba" means excess, increase or addition, which according to Shariah terminology, implies any excess compensation without due consideration (consideration does not include time value of money). The definition of riba in classical Islamic jurisprudence was "surplus value without counterpart", or "to ensure equivalency in real value", and that "numerical value was immaterial." During this period, gold and silver currencies were the benchmark metals that defined the value of all other materials being traded. Applying interest to the benchmark itself (ex natura sua) made no logical sense as its value remained constant relative to all other materials: these metals could be added to but not created (from nothing).

Applying interest was acceptable under some circumstances. Currencies that were based on guarantees by a government to honor the stated value (i.e. fiat currency) or based on other materials such as paper or base metals were allowed to have interest applied to them. When base metal currencies were first introduced in the Islamic world, the question of "paying a debt in a higher number of units of this fiat money being riba" was not relevant as the jurists only needed to be concerned with the real value of money (determined by weight only) rather than the numerical value. For example, it was acceptable for a loan of 1000 gold dinars to be paid back as 1050 dinars of equal aggregate weight (i.e., the value in terms of weight had to be same because all makes of coins did not carry exactly similar weight).

Source

A really good read and resource which shows how convoluted and malleable Islamic banking practices are. I read it twice and am still greatly confused by it.

My issue with the "Islamic law" aspect of this is simple and direct... If the people behind this wish to protest this increase based upon the idea that it's patently unfair, results in undo class discrimination, or any other number of complaints, I'd stand by them, in support, 100%.

But to cite a religious based "legal code" that is not recognized in the West, and to which I am not subject to or personally ascribed to, as a justification will never get my support.

I'm all for the fight - but not when it's done in the name of Islam, or any other religious faction.

~Heff

reply to post by 12m8keall2c


haha.

Sounds good

reply to post by Hefficide


I appreciate what you are saying...

I gots to get me a personal 'legal code'

Originally posted by Wide-Eyes


So, the Muslims are kicking off about the tuition fee hikes but are the British people in general?

Yes - a massive group of students from my university (and many others) are planning a big protest next wednesday in London, as far as i know the demands to go has exceeded the amount of coaches, so our university has adopted a donation pledge, to pay for more coaches.

Kinda defeats the stereotype that British folk are lazy, uninitiated folk doesn't it?

And that's just MY university, god knows how many will be attending. I may even join in, but it does clash with my lectures....

The Tory majority seems to be hiking up prices, to keep the rich educated and poor as drones. £9K a year for education is ridiculous considering i'm paying £3k a year for mine. Treble the price.

This doesn't affect me, but it WILL affect my younger siblings and my children in the future.

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


Well , if they do not like that , they can Always go to School somewhere in the Middle East..........

If i go...

I'll do an ATS street review for you guys and report back on the attitude, effort and feelings of the events.

Originally posted by weemadmental
well they can promote their Islamic laws in their own bloody country, this is the UK, if they don't like or want to follow our rules or practices they are welcome to pick-up sticks and go somewhere else.

I don't like it either and i'm a white, atheist, englishman.

Where should i bugger off to?

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


You aren't in Pakistan or Iran anymore, you are in England. You conform to the country nice enough to take you in. If you don't like it, perhaps moving back to Tehran or Islamabad may be a better fit for you.

reply to post by Wide-Eyes


It seems Muslims are the only group of people who are actively involved in politics, and who are actively use their rights to make changes.

The rest are acting like slaves, just working hard, taking anything that is send towards them by the elite, and not asking any question, or showing their dissatisfaction.

Wake up.

Originally posted by oozyism
reply to post by Wide-Eyes

 

It seems Muslims are the only group of people who are actively involved in politics, and who are actively use their rights to make changes.

Using Shariah law as a basis for seeking change in a non Islamic nation is NOT a right.

~Heff